User Tag List

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 53

Thread: Clearly A Drunk Can Consent

  1. #16
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    Posts
    7,390
    Thanks
    124
    Thanked 1,325 Times in 1,093 Posts

    Mentioned
    49 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior View Post
    I must have missed where in the Bible it embraces out of wedlock sex in the back of a cab Crucible.
    Who on this site has never had premarital sex?
    I don't even know how realistic it is, in this day and age, for a couple to not have intercourse before they walk the aisle.

    The Bible talks more about sex than almost any other subject- I don't understand why those as yourself come to the conclusions you do

  2. #17
    LIFETIME MEMBER aCultureWarrior's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    14,682
    Thanks
    9
    Thanked 1,204 Times in 1,036 Posts

    Mentioned
    19 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    619301
    Quote Originally Posted by Crucible View Post
    Who on this site has never had premarital sex?
    Which has nothing to do with biblical precepts. 1.a general rule intended to regulate behavior or thought:

    The Bible talks more about sex than almost any other subject- I don't understand why those as yourself come to the conclusions you do
    Raping an intoxicated woman in the back of your cab goes against biblical precepts.
    Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth?
    Galatians 4:16

  3. #18
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    18,303
    Thanks
    1,338
    Thanked 4,345 Times in 3,267 Posts

    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    0
    quick synopsis of the case:

    cops come across cabbie in back of cab with passenger who is passed out drunk

    cabbie is partially naked

    passenger is mostly naked

    cabbie says "she consented"

    woman says (when she sobers up) "I don't remember anything"

    apparently the charges were laid by the police without the woman's participation



    so the judge was faced with deciding who was more believable, the cabbie who said he had consent, the woman who couldn't deny that or the cops who weren't there when the consent was given/not given


    seems to me that he made the right call

  4. #19
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    18,303
    Thanks
    1,338
    Thanked 4,345 Times in 3,267 Posts

    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    0

    Courts struggle to determine how drunk is too drunk to consent

    After Nova Scotia acquittal sparked outrage, Canadian experts say there is no clear legal threshold for when someone becomes too intoxicated to consent to sex.

    Halifax taxi driver Bassam Al-Rawi was acquitted of sexual assault because a judge ruled the woman "might well have been capable of appearing lucid but drunk" and it was possible she could have consented to sexual contact before becoming unconscious.


    At 1:09 a.m. a woman got in a cab after being refused entry to a bar because she was too drunk. Eleven minutes later, a police officer found the cab parked on a Halifax street.

    The woman was passed out in the back seat, naked from her breasts down, her legs propped up on the backs of the front seats.

    The cab driver, Bassam Al-Rawi, had his own pants undone and was trying to hide the woman’s urine-soaked pants and underwear by shoving them between the front seat and the console.

    The woman’s blood-alcohol level was found to be three times the legal limit and she had no memory of what had happened.

    In a decision that has sparked protests and is now under appeal, Judge Gregory Lenehan acquitted Al-Rawi of sexual assault because, he said, the woman “might well have been capable of appearing lucid but drunk” and it was possible she could have consented to sexual contact before becoming unconscious.

    Lenehan’s decision has been denounced by legal experts for ignoring strong circumstantial evidence that points to the woman being too drunk to consent to sex.

    It also highlights the ongoing struggle of courts to decide where to draw the line between drunk and incapacitated.


    What is clear is that being sexually assaulted while incapacitated is a real and widespread issue.

    A Statistics Canada survey from 2014 found that 633,000 people self-reported being sexually assaulted that year — mostly women. Of those, 9 per cent reported they had been sexually assaulted when they were incapable of consenting because they were drugged or intoxicated.

    “This is a very serious problem,” said Lise Gotell, a law professor at the University of Alberta, where she is also the chair of women’s and gender studies. “It is important then that the courts clearly articulate the threshold of incapacity with regard to intoxication. The problem is we don’t have a clearly articulated threshold; the courts have not done that yet.”

    In other words, there is no clear legal line beyond which someone becomes too intoxicated to consent.

    The Criminal Code states only that a person cannot consent to sex when they are “incapable.”

    The result, experts say, is a legal standard for incapacity that is too hard to meet, is applied inconsistently and ignores exploitative behaviour by the accused.

    “The test is whether you can understand the risks and consequences of a sexual act and have the ability to understand you can refuse,” said lawyer Angela Chaisson. “It is a really high bar. Only a minimal cognitive capacity is required to consent to sex.”

    The courts have found “mere drunkenness does not equate to incapacity, nor is imprudent decision-making, loss of inhibitions or self-control,” she said. Or, as another court decision put it: “a drunken consent is still a valid consent.”

    She continued: “We have cases where someone is quite literally falling down drunk or vomiting and that, in and of itself, is not enough.”

    It’s also not enough to show that the person is making poor or risky decisions and is vulnerable to exploitation.

    In one recent Ontario case, a woman who was too drunk to dress herself and was “zigzagging” was found capable of consenting in part because the court found she was able to understand a concerned caution from a friend and chose to ignore it.

    Part of the challenge is that complainants often have no memory of what happened and may not be able to establish their level of intoxication. It may be that the only person who could do so is the accused — who does not have to testify.

    Having no memory of what happened — an alcohol-induced blackout — also doesn’t automatically mean someone was incapable of consenting, courts have found. While blackouts are more common at higher blood-alcohol levels, it remains unclear why they happen and they can involve a variety of factors, such as how rapidly someone was drinking, their tolerance for alcohol and their genetics.

    And during blackouts, people can appear functioning, have conversations, make decisions. They may not appear sober, but they may also not appear incapacitated.

    Expert evidence from a toxicologist is common in incapacity cases, but that too may not shed much light on whether the complainant could consent at a certain blood-alcohol level because of how differently alcohol can affect people. Courts have repeatedly heard that visible signs of intoxication such as stumbling and vomiting don’t necessarily mean someone is unable to make decisions.

    Gotell said one possible change to the law could be “a provision where instead of focusing on consent where a complainant is not able to provide any evidence about how she was thinking or feeling, perhaps we should have a legal standard that permits the Crown to prove coercion by the accused and focus on his predatory behaviour … It is a widespread problem and we do have to figure out a way to allow for the legal recognition of exploitation in these types of cases.”

    This could also take into account the power dynamic that may occur in these cases: for instance, if the accused is a position of responsibility, like a taxi driver, or in a position of authority, like a police officer.

    University of Ottawa law professor Elizabeth Sheehy said that in the Al-Rawi case, the Nova Scotia Court of Appeal has a chance to bring some clarity to the law.

    “Right now it’s like a predator’s paradise,” Sheehy said.

    She stressed the importance of including women’s voices in any legal reform.

    Many of the notions about capacity and consent “have been developed by male judges and argued by defence lawyers who are men, and women haven’t had much input into the development of these ideas,” she said.

    It remains important to ensure judges are not making decisions based on stereotypes about uninhibited “party girls,” ideas that women cry rape when they regret having sex or that women who get drunk are at fault for putting themselves in a vulnerable position.

    After reviewing a number of cases, Janine Benedet, a law professor at the University of British Columbia, found a troubling difference between those in which the complainant was drugged and others in which the complainant voluntarily got drunk.

    The courts tended to apply a lower standard in cases of involuntary intoxication than when someone was voluntarily intoxicated. In the latter cases, the threshold is near-unconsciousness, Benedet found in her 2010 paper, called “The Sexual Assault of Intoxicated Women.” (The Supreme Court of Canada ruled only in 2011 that a person cannot consent when they are unconscious).

    “Judicial education and ensuring that judges base their reasoning on logic, not stereotypes, would help,” said Dalhousie University law professor Elaine Craig.

    Diversity on the bench might also make a difference — female judges remain under-represented at both the provincial and superior court levels where sexual assault trials are heard.

    Gotell noted that the laws around consent have changed a lot over the past 25 years, but there are still older, male judges with a tendency to overidentify with the accused.

    “(They) look at situations and remember times when those situations would not have been considered criminal and remember being engaged in situations like these,” she said.


    https://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2...o-consent.html


  5. #20
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    18,303
    Thanks
    1,338
    Thanked 4,345 Times in 3,267 Posts

    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    0
    UPDATE: Bassam Al-Rawi has been found, and served

    March 13, 2017 By Jennifer Henderson 1 Comment
    Tweet about this on TwitterShare on FacebookShare on LinkedInShare on Google+Share on TumblrEmail this to someone
    Share this story

    Bassam Al-Rawi on a Halifax Transit bus. Photo: Instagram/ @HalifaxNoise

    UPDATE (Tuesday): Yesterday, the Examiner reported that over a week of trying, police had not been able to locate taxi driver Bassam Al-Rawi to serve documents notifying him his case could be brought before the Court of Appeal. There had been multiple, but unconfirmed reports that Al-Rawi had left the country.

    However, Chris Hansen of the Nova Scotia Public Prosecution Service confirms taxi driver Bassam Al-Rawi has been located in Halifax and served by Halifax Police today, notifying him his acquittal on a charge of sexual assault is being appealed.

    There are now no legal barriers standing in the way of an appeal of the Judge Lenehan verdict.


    https://www.halifaxexaminer.ca/featu...t-the-country/

  6. #21
    I am Miss America because I say so, you must agree Angel4Truth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Somewhere between heaven and hell
    Posts
    16,767
    Thanks
    25,324
    Thanked 17,624 Times in 11,133 Posts

    Blog Entries
    52
    Mentioned
    22 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)


    Rep Power
    2147720
    Quote Originally Posted by ok doser View Post
    UPDATE: Bassam Al-Rawi has been found, and served

    March 13, 2017 By Jennifer Henderson 1 Comment
    Tweet about this on TwitterShare on FacebookShare on LinkedInShare on Google+Share on TumblrEmail this to someone
    Share this story

    Bassam Al-Rawi on a Halifax Transit bus. Photo: Instagram/ @HalifaxNoise

    UPDATE (Tuesday): Yesterday, the Examiner reported that over a week of trying, police had not been able to locate taxi driver Bassam Al-Rawi to serve documents notifying him his case could be brought before the Court of Appeal. There had been multiple, but unconfirmed reports that Al-Rawi had left the country.

    However, Chris Hansen of the Nova Scotia Public Prosecution Service confirms taxi driver Bassam Al-Rawi has been located in Halifax and served by Halifax Police today, notifying him his acquittal on a charge of sexual assault is being appealed.

    There are now no legal barriers standing in the way of an appeal of the Judge Lenehan verdict.


    https://www.halifaxexaminer.ca/featu...t-the-country/
    Do you honestly believe she consented?
    <a href=http://theologyonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=23146&d=1455650224 target=_blank>http://theologyonline.com/attachment...6&d=1455650224</a>

    "Around the country, progressive bullies have attacked Christians for daring to put their faith ahead of the pet causes of those who feign compassion while destroying life-giving liberties. What we are seeing is a scorched-earth, take-no-prisoners approach as the wildfire burns across our land. It is not enough that Christians be quiet. Christians must be silenced and punished. Their faith cannot be respected. Legislation that ensures people are free to live and work according to their faith without fear of being punished by government must be stopped and decried as discrimination...There is one key reason that those on the Left must force their beliefs on the rest of us: if they didn't force their craziness on us, we would never embrace it." ~Erick Erickson
    Proverbs 3:5-8

  7. The Following User Says Thank You to Angel4Truth For Your Post:

    Tambora (March 18th, 2017)

  8. #22
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    18,303
    Thanks
    1,338
    Thanked 4,345 Times in 3,267 Posts

    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Angel4Truth View Post
    Do you honestly believe she consented?

    i have no idea


    but he's not a bad looking fellow and i knew plenty of young women in college who were attracted to the good looking middle eastern guys, even when their inhibitions weren't diminished by alcohol

  9. #23
    TOL Legend
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    12,494
    Thanks
    369
    Thanked 2,947 Times in 2,197 Posts

    Blog Entries
    1
    Mentioned
    22 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    1069113
    Quote Originally Posted by ok doser View Post
    i have no idea


    but he's not a bad looking fellow and i knew plenty of young women in college who were attracted to the good looking middle eastern guys, even when their inhibitions weren't diminished by alcohol
    Though they got it's basis wrong, the movie "The Manchurian Candidate" is based on a fact actually proven, both Scriptural and scientific fact.

    The fact that be it under the right circumstances, or those manufactured towards the following intent - anyone's sense of right and wrong can be shifted against their own best interests, if not used on them, towards said same ill will.

    With their...unknowing participation throughout...right before their very eyes.

  10. #24
    Silver Member glorydaz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    15,278
    Thanks
    5,465
    Thanked 21,457 Times in 10,819 Posts

    Blog Entries
    1
    Mentioned
    51 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)


    Rep Power
    2147705
    The guys was a Muslim....of course they let him off.

  11. The Following User Says Thank You to glorydaz For Your Post:

    Tambora (March 19th, 2017)

  12. #25
    TOL Legend Ktoyou's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Alabama and Florida
    Posts
    8,547
    Thanks
    1,722
    Thanked 4,893 Times in 3,485 Posts

    Blog Entries
    6
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)



    Rep Power
    2147695
    Quote Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior View Post
    The woman was the victim of a Muslim rapist, i.e. she didn't commit any crime (this is a TOL first, ok doser and Crucible defending a Muslim).


    Maybe you have a small point there? She should have been arrested for being naked, and he should have been arrested for being a Muslim.
    Quote Originally Posted by marhig View Post
    Christian theology isn't to be in Christ.


    So, what?

    believe it!

  13. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Ktoyou For Your Post:

    Sherman (March 19th, 2017),Tambora (March 19th, 2017)

  14. #26
    Over 4000 post club glassjester's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    4,600
    Thanks
    536
    Thanked 1,215 Times in 959 Posts

    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    262395
    Quote Originally Posted by Sirloin Syeak View Post
    Women burn through so much damn birth control that they are asking for government aide.

    Enough said
    You're a bunch of whores
    Crucible?
    Your "catholic" is showing. - Sozo

  15. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to glassjester For Your Post:

    Sherman (March 19th, 2017),Sirloin Syeak (March 19th, 2017)

  16. #27
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    18,303
    Thanks
    1,338
    Thanked 4,345 Times in 3,267 Posts

    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Ktoyou View Post
    Maybe you have a small point there? She should have been arrested for being naked,
    or public intoxication, or public lewdness (probably on the books in canada - they have some goofy sounding laws up there

    Quote Originally Posted by kat
    and he should have been arrested for being a Muslim.
    he should have been executed for being a mooslim

  17. #28
    LIFETIME MEMBER aCultureWarrior's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    14,682
    Thanks
    9
    Thanked 1,204 Times in 1,036 Posts

    Mentioned
    19 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    619301
    Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
    The woman was the victim of a Muslim rapist, i.e. she didn't commit any crime (this is a TOL first, ok doser and Crucible defending a Muslim).


    Quote Originally Posted by Ktoyou View Post
    Maybe you have a small point there? She should have been arrested for being naked, and he should have been arrested for being a Muslim.
    Checking to see if I'm blocked from yet another ok doser thread (it appears not...yet).

    Sorry, but the law doesn't work that way. When a woman is raped (which is a felony) misdemeanor offenses by her are overlooked by law enforcement.
    Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth?
    Galatians 4:16

  18. The Following User Says Thank You to aCultureWarrior For Your Post:

    Sherman (March 19th, 2017)

  19. #29
    The Flying Ban Hammer ✈ Spam Killing Tomcat Sherman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    12,166
    Thanks
    1,410
    Thanked 8,902 Times in 6,705 Posts

    Blog Entries
    4
    Mentioned
    34 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)




    Rep Power
    2147687
    @aCultureWarrior ​You are contributing a valid point to this thread. I see no reason to block you from this one.

    The Troll Shredder--Brrrtttttt!

    June is Gay Pride Month.Tolerance and diversity? More like tolerate perversity.

  20. The Following User Says Thank You to Sherman For Your Post:

    Tambora (March 20th, 2017)

  21. #30
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    18,303
    Thanks
    1,338
    Thanked 4,345 Times in 3,267 Posts

    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman View Post
    @aCultureWarrior ​You are contributing a valid point to this thread. I see no reason to block you from this one.
    which is why i didn't report it today


    it would be nice, however, if he'd stop lying about me "defending a muslim"

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
About us
Since 1997 TheologyOnline (TOL) has been one of the most popular theology forums on the internet. On TOL we encourage spirited conversation about religion, politics, and just about everything else.

follow us