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Thread: Anti-Christ Spirit of Spiritual Death Exposed

  1. #166
    Over 4000 post club daqq's Avatar
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    By the way, Lon, you also are now playing a Modalist shell game; for you say it is definitely Jesus speaking at the start of what I quoted. Then, when John bows to worship Jesus, you say it is an angel that tells him not to do so. Then after that you change hats right back to saying it is Jesus speaking again.

    Oh the tangled webs you three are willing to weave for the sake of your dogmas.

  2. #167
    LIFETIME MEMBER meshak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daqq View Post
    So you also say that "Jesus is YHWH"?
    Of course he does.

    That's the doctrine of mainstream or trins'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Let us look at the next chapter of the epistle which you mentioned and we can see a verse that also demonstrates that the Lord Jesus is God:

    "We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true by being in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life"
    (1 Jn.5:20).

    That speaks for itself. I see no evidence that what John writes here is just an illusion.
    But where does the Spirit come is the point, Luke 17:20-21 shows the location of God's kingdom the storyline through out scripture is about the struggle of our dual nature told in allegories Galatians 4:24 that were never meant to be taken historical because all that does is cause division 2cor 3:6.
    Quote Originally Posted by daqq View Post
    So you also say that "Jesus is YHWH"? Because that is the position of Jerry and Evil. And if you also say that the Father is His own Son, and the Son is the Father, and YHWH is your brother, (as Evil has already openly stated), then you need to step up and answer the question too because you are now joining yourself to their blasphemy and adding your voice to further it. My question to them was as clear as it can be, and as anyone may see they refused to openly answer it in truth, and truth be told, Jerry already admitted it. He has essentially admitted that all those words are spoken by the Son of Elohim. Therefore Jerry, and the OP Evil, and you also Lon, openly deny, reject, and attempt to subvert a direct commandment from the Son of Elohim not to worship him but to instead worship Elohim, (Revelation 22:9). You three are anathema because you do not actually believe the Testimony of Messiah and, in fact, try to subvert it, nor do what he says to do even though you claim to be his followers and claim to speak for him in your teachings, (Luke 6:46). Yes, the whole three lot of you are heretics, blasphemers, and anathema.

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    Over 2000 post club Zeke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lon View Post
    Again, unless you've read the whole thing, you've no comment worth the internet it is printed upon. Take the challenge. -Lon
    Why bother making assumptions about things you have no clue about, like my reading habits. Plus you can read it 100 times and still miss the pearls because you read through a glass darkly.

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  5. #170
    Over 4000 post club daqq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meshak View Post
    Of course he does.

    That's the doctrine of mainstream or trins'.
    I dunno, it seems now-a-days, with two billion+ beleeevers globally, there seem to be about two billion+ differing versions of the Trinity: yet if you say you do not agree you are the heretic. It might even be true that if I said I was a full blown Trinitarian, while still believing what I do right now, (because most do not understand what I believe anyway), I might just actually be accepted into the club simply on the basis that I made the claim, (like most of the modern Oneness-Modalists around here are already doing). My view could be just one more out of two billion+ different versions of the Trinity, (I've even heard some call their version the Twinity, lol). But that is precisely why Trinitarianism is imploding; and who would want to jump on board the Trinitanic when the stern is already at 45 degrees, risen up into the cold midnight sky, as the bow slips under the icy waters?

  6. #171
    TOL Subscriber Lon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeke View Post
    Why bother making assumptions about things you have no clue about, like my reading habits. Plus you can read it 100 times and still miss the pearls because you read through a glass darkly.
    Of course I'm making assumptions. The book molds us, we do not mold the book. Read it.
    My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
    Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
    Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
    Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
    No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
    Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

    Is Calvinism okay? Yep

    Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

    1Co 13:11 ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

    Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

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  8. #172
    TOL Subscriber Lon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daqq View Post
    So you also say that "Jesus is YHWH"? Because that is the position of Jerry and Evil. ...you need to step up and answer the question too .... the Son of Elohim.
    As per the trinity doctrine, simply go the creeds. There are not a billion or even a hundred different trinity doctrines. There ARE laymen who haven't read the creeds or gone through triune scriptures. I'm okay with an emerging grasp of triune doctrine. I'm not okay with adverse (hetero, heretical) doctrine. The difference is who is trying to espouse the scriptures, and who is damaging scriptures of willful purpose. Understand? (more on those scriptures below)
    Quote Originally Posted by daqq View Post
    Therefore Jerry, and the OP Evil, and you also Lon, openly deny, reject, and attempt to subvert a direct commandment from the Son of Elohim not to worship him but to instead worship Elohim, (Revelation 22:9). You three are anathema because you do not actually believe the Testimony of Messiah and, in fact, try to subvert it, nor do what he says to do even though you claim to be his followers and claim to speak for him in your teachings, (Luke 6:46). Yes, the whole three lot of you are heretics, blasphemers, and anathema.
    You didn't read my post well, did you? I said the angel was delivering a direct quote. From guess who?

    Yep, two beings. One an angel delivering the Alpha and Omega's direct quotes (the Other being). Question, which one do you suppose said not to worship him???

    I think your theology, at best not informed and hasty. At worst the actual anathema. Because of misunderstanding the scriptures themselves? I guess I'm glad you at least are talking to Trinitarians that perhaps that might change. -Lon
    My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
    Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
    Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
    Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
    No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
    Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

    Is Calvinism okay? Yep

    Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

    1Co 13:11 ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

    Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

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  10. #173
    Over 4000 post club daqq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lon View Post
    As per the trinity doctrine, simply go the creeds. There are not a billion or even a hundred different trinity doctrines. There ARE laymen who haven't read the creeds or gone through triune scriptures. I'm okay with an emerging grasp of triune doctrine. I'm not okay with adverse (hetero, heretical) doctrine. The difference is who is trying to espouse the scriptures, and who is damaging scriptures of willful purpose. Understand? (more on those scriptures below)


    You didn't read my post well, did you? I said the angel was delivering a direct quote. From guess who?

    Yep, two beings. One an angel delivering the Alpha and Omega's direct quotes (the Other being). Question, which one do you suppose said not to worship him???

    I think your theology, at best not informed and hasty. At worst the actual anathema. Because of misunderstanding the scriptures themselves? I guess I'm glad you at least are talking to Trinitarians that perhaps that might change. -Lon
    You are still playing a Modalist hat trick. Look at the first chapter as I already previously noted, (which gives essentially the same description that is given of the Messenger in Daniel 10:1-6, as already noted, and which timing, if you know the days and weeks, is the same timing of the conversion of Saul on the way to Damascus where and when he saw Messiah). The Son is the express image of the Father, (the Son, the Word, is the image). Messiah the Son of Elohim is the very Glory of the Father. Messiah says all through the Gospel of John that the Father has sent him. You only cannot see it in the passage under discussion because your mindset and indoctrination will not allow for such a possibility.

  11. #174
    Over 2000 post club Zeke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lon View Post
    Of course I'm making assumptions. The book molds us, we do not mold the book. Read it.
    No need to keep reading the dead letter over and over if you have grasp 2cor 3:6 Galatians 1:12 which you have yet to discern because you are to loyal to mans creeds and historic folly.

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  12. #175
    TOL Subscriber Lon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeke View Post
    No need to keep reading the dead letter over and over if you have grasp 2cor 3:6 Galatians 1:12 which you have yet to discern because you are to loyal to mans creeds and historic folly.
    If it is a 'dead' letter, why are you quoting it? Please consider: John 6:63-70 Matthew 4:4 James 1:22-25 do you understand?
    Last edited by Lon; March 9th, 2017 at 11:30 AM. Reason: Scriptures added
    My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
    Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
    Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
    Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
    No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
    Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

    Is Calvinism okay? Yep

    Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

    1Co 13:11 ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

    Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

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  14. #176
    TOL Subscriber Lon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daqq View Post
    You are still playing a Modalist hat trick. Look at the first chapter as I already previously noted, (which gives essentially the same description that is given of the Messenger in Daniel 10:1-6, as already noted, and which timing, if you know the days and weeks, is the same timing of the conversion of Saul on the way to Damascus where and when he saw Messiah). The Son is the express image of the Father, (the Son, the Word, is the image). Messiah the Son of Elohim is the very Glory of the Father. Messiah says all through the Gospel of John that the Father has sent him. You only cannot see it in the passage under discussion because your mindset and indoctrination will not allow for such a possibility.
    I am Tri- AND -une. It is a tightrope walk BETWEEN modalism and dual-theism (Arian Unitarian). What does that mean? It means 1) Yes you are correct, because you aren't on the rope between scriptures, you don't see the fall from above. We, as Trinitarians, are desperately clinging to all scriptures. I know for a fact, "God created the heavens and the earth." Colossians 1 says "God" is the Lord Jesus Christ. How? Scripture says there never has, or ever will be another god beside Him. How?

    I CAN explain the creeds. I can explain that I'm both tri- and -une.

    Realize, often, when you argue, you are often forcing the tri- or -une in conversations. We are adamantly both.

    Perhaps one more: We believe both modalists and arians are about half-right, thus, about half of the time we agree with your perspective, but (and hope this makes sense) we embrace the other side in our doctrine. I 'think' Modalists and Arians/Unitarians are using human conceptions to try and explain the mystery we are seeing in scriptures. The problem is simply this: Having read the Bible, I believe there is Only One God (modal -une) and Father, Spirit, Son are/is Him. -Lon
    My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
    Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
    Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
    Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
    No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
    Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

    Is Calvinism okay? Yep

    Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

    1Co 13:11 ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

    Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

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  16. #177
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeke View Post
    But where does the Spirit come is the point...
    No, that is not the point. The point is that the Apostle John makes it plain that the Lord Jesus is God:

    "We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true by being in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life"
    (1 Jn.5:20).

    You just refuse to address the point of what John says in that verse.

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  18. #178
    TOL Subscriber Lon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daqq View Post
    You are still playing a Modalist hat trick.
    Btw, I believe sometimes, the disagreement between camps is how one conceives terms differently. "God" is a big word. You note I use it to reveal that both the Father and Son and Spirit (God) created the Heavens and the Earth. Thus I use "God" as synonymous with Creator. I guess I'm saying perhaps there is agreement sometimes but that we rarely notice such agreements in conversation. It is due to using the larger term "God" here where you may agree that God/the Lord Jesus Christ - created.

    I suppose what I'm saying is that we, on the tightrope, are a bit touchy about distraction or supposed heckling from either Arians or Modalists. You've said you are Triune in some sense. I realize we are opposed on other doctrines such that I have you mostly on ignore, but on this particular, perhaps not. -Lon
    My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
    Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
    Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
    Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
    No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
    Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

    Is Calvinism okay? Yep

    Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

    1Co 13:11 ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

    Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

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  20. #179
    Over 2000 post club Zeke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    No, that is not the point. The point is that the Apostle John makes it plain that the Lord Jesus is God:

    "We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true by being in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life"
    (1 Jn.5:20).

    You just refuse to address the point of what John says in that verse.
    And kingdom is where that all takes place you look outward which has stuck you in first Adam thinking.

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    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeke View Post
    And kingdom is where that all takes place you look outward which has stuck you in first Adam thinking
    So are you saying that the Lord Jesus is not God except in the kingdom?:

    "We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true by being in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life" (1 Jn.5:20).

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