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  1. #301
    Silver Member patrick jane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post
    The lengths you hard right wing moaners and groaners go to in vain attempts to paint those who want affordable healthcare in a dim light is remarkable. But all it ultimately does is illuminate a paucity of spirit, compassion, and understanding.
    There's no such thing as "affordable healthcare" anymore, genius.
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  2. #302
    TOL Subscriber Lon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonahdog View Post
    Yep, the Christian follow the $ defense. So much for love your neighbor as yourself.
    I 'think' they are just against double-dipping for it. My brother is a fireman. As soon as Obamacare took over, the poor were making $100k phone calls to 911. When asked to stop (not real emergencies, also part of their own problems with abuse etc.), they quipped "Obama said I could." We all are against doing something that can be abused.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonahdog View Post
    So taking $ from your pocket to help those less fortunate is stealing?
    Yes, it can be. I'm not against all democratic agendas. The 'bleeding' part of the bleeding heart liberal, I'm not even against, but is it really bleeding when liberals are a smaller group? Aren't they really allocating the rest of our dollars? After that, I will give beyond my taxes, but I'd rather see programs that aren't as easy to abuse. Conservatives actually do put up when it comes to giving to genuine needs, so it has to be an objection somewhere on the taxes side of things. Communism/socialism is more a liberal and democratic agenda. We aren't heartless, just want some equity in responsibility as well, so smaller government etc. where somebody has to at 'least' try a bit on their own.
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    Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

    Is Calvinism okay? Yep

    Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

    1Co 13:11 ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

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    Quote Originally Posted by patrick jane View Post
    There's no such thing as "affordable healthcare" anymore, genius.
    The Canadian healthcare system costs far less as a percentage of GNP than the US - with far better heath outcomes!

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  5. #304
    Out of Order Town Heretic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by patrick jane View Post
    There's no such thing as "affordable healthcare" anymore, genius.
    Maybe there is and you just don't understand it.
    You aren't what you eat, but you're always what you swallow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jgarden View Post
    The Canadian healthcare system costs far less as a percentage of GNP than the US - with far better heath outcomes!
    Unless you are real sick
    So, what?

    believe it!

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  8. #306
    Out of Order Town Heretic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lon View Post
    I 'think' they are just against double-dipping for it
    I wish that were so, but I don't believe it. The responses aren't really ACA centered. They're about objecting to anything that doesn't meet their charity litmus, which I think is an onion thin excuse that has a way of reducing to...did you ever see Sense and Sensibility? There's a man who inherits a great estate and his father has told him to provide for the dying man's wife (English law forbade direct inheritance of the land except to a male heir). The heir and his wife consider what charity is best and eventually arrive at a figure far removed from the dying man's wish.

    I see a lot of that in the faux hand-wringing by people who mean to give the impression they'd do plenty but begrudge the hand of the government taking their limelight. Because if they're telling the truth (and I think they mostly aren't) then that's the difference. They can't be seen or see themselves as a generous soul if they aren't asked pretty please... Otherwise, you can't be robbed if the money you're asked to give to help someone is money you'd give were you asked, to rephrase my earlier.

    We all are against doing something that can be abused.
    Sure. And I'm absolutely for wading in and making this thing better, which Republicans should have done to begin with instead of playing politics with it.

    Yes, it can be.
    If someone asks you for your cloak? The government just did.

    I'm not against all democratic agendas. The 'bleeding' part of the bleeding heart liberal, I'm not even against, but is it really bleeding when liberals are a smaller group? Aren't they really allocating the rest of our dollars?
    There's a tax exception for liberals?

    After that, I will give beyond my taxes,
    I don't doubt it. Sadly, I do doubt it for many. Their conduct toward the less fortunate screams to it.

    but I'd rather see programs that aren't as easy to abuse.
    Such as? (either, both preferably)

    Conservatives actually do put up when it comes to giving to genuine needs, so it has to be an objection somewhere on the taxes side of things.
    Back in 2015 The Chronicle of Philanthropy noted that the wealthy in this country continue to give less on average and the poor give more. The South is remarkably philanthropic, comparatively. It's largely a religious, not conservative thing. The top states, Alabama among the top three, in therms of charitable giving are also the top states in terms of religious devotion.
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    Silver Member patrick jane's Avatar
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    Two more Republican Senators are out, that's all she wrote for healthcare. Soak up Obamacare and skyrocketing premiums, not to mention deductibles.
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  10. #308
    Silver Member Ktoyou's Avatar
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    Just watch them all fly United. ha
    So, what?

    believe it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by patrick jane View Post
    Two more Republican Senators are out, that's all she wrote for healthcare. Soak up Obamacare and skyrocketing premiums, not to mention deductibles.
    Yeah I agree. Mike Lee made a mistake, now Republicans are pursuing a 2015 repeal bill language that was never clean repeal and left all of obamacare regulations intact.

  12. #310
    Black Rifles Matter Nick M's Avatar
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    The good part is the Senators that are in power to repeal, will have to answer. Just like in 08 when the NE RINOs went down. Funny how they voted to repeal when Obama was there to veto it, and I pointed out it is an act.
    Jesus saves completely. http://www.climatedepot.com/ http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick M View Post
    The good part is the Senators that are in power to repeal, will have to answer. Just like in 08 when the NE RINOs went down. Funny how they voted to repeal when Obama was there to veto it, and I pointed out it is an act.
    Sad part about all of this is that Trumpcare was a bigger repeal bill than any other Repeal passed by rebulicans while Obama was in office. Many republicans who wanted a clean repeal are going to be let down when they start to read the old repeal bill.

  15. #312
    TOL Subscriber Lon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post
    I wish that were so, but I don't believe it. The responses aren't really ACA centered. They're about objecting to anything that doesn't meet their charity litmus, which I think is an onion thin excuse that has a way of reducing to...did you ever see Sense and Sensibility? There's a man who inherits a great estate and his father has told him to provide for the dying man's wife (English law forbade direct inheritance of the land except to a male heir). The heir and his wife consider what charity is best and eventually arrive at a figure far removed from the dying man's wish.

    I see a lot of that in the faux hand-wringing by people who mean to give the impression they'd do plenty but begrudge the hand of the government taking their limelight. Because if they're telling the truth (and I think they mostly aren't) then that's the difference. They can't be seen or see themselves as a generous soul if they aren't asked pretty please... Otherwise, you can't be robbed if the money you're asked to give to help someone is money you'd give were you asked, to rephrase my earlier.
    Similar to true life. One group of my stepbrothers received about 3 million each. Myother had co-signed, prior to their inheritance for a brand new mustang at a hefty amount. When the brother burned up the engine, he stuck my brother as the co-signer. When inheritance came around, a decent thought would have paid that back. Liberals all. One of them, I believe is a Christian by his devotion but the other two are not. They followed their liberal mother (both politics and theology). Conservative Christians, at least, out-give our secular counterparts. I think you are correct that conservative aren't enablers, however. We give, but you are correct it isn't a blanket of sentiment that extends to all without ... "discernment" or discretion, or whatever might be a fitting qualifier here.


    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post
    Sure. And I'm absolutely for wading in and making this thing better, which Republicans should have done to begin with instead of playing politics with it.
    To me? It seems like we really don't know how. A few representatives might consider traveling to Canada or somewhere else they are trying to make it work. I will give Obama, at least, points for attempt any way. I just think this all needed to be studied out. Premiums indeed went high. I think we need to regulate insurance companies better and with more regulations. Does that make me a moderate by some scales?


    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post
    If someone asks you for your cloak? The government just did.
    The 'government' isn't a someone though. What if I run out of cloaks? I think I'm a bleeding heart conservative, actually. I would and do give the coats off my back. Flaw or for good.


    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post
    There's a tax exception for liberals?
    Groups tend to spend according to their own agenda. We are fairly partisan in our selfishness, across board, politically.


    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post
    I don't doubt it. Sadly, I do doubt it for many. Their conduct toward the less fortunate screams to it.
    Not when both Gallup, Barna and Pew confirm we out-give exponentially, even with heavy-or-light taxes (some conflation of conservative Christians/conservative politics here, I realize they shouldn't always be, the percentages are high for it, though).


    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post
    Such as? (either, both preferably)
    Allocation: You get so many dollars per year. If you go over it, you can apply for more. Case workers that are better trained, etc. It makes for bigger government though. I'd like to see more voluntary 'jury' type councils though, by draw. Just breeding 'some' responsibility would be a good thing. I realize it is then providing with strings attached, but I think those good strings and meant to be productive. It is one of those 'qualification' you were talking about that we conservatives have. I think you correct, but I think it at least potentially, is meant for good.


    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post
    Back in 2015 The Chronicle of Philanthropy noted that the wealthy in this country continue to give less on average and the poor give more. The South is remarkably philanthropic, comparatively. It's largely a religious, not conservative thing. The top states, Alabama among the top three, in therms of charitable giving are also the top states in terms of religious devotion.
    This is an interesting article (are religious always politically conservative). As I said, it isn't always correct to conflate religious conservativism with political conservativism, and lately it is more difficult when we don't feel Republican politicians are carrying our conservative values (religious and political, covered in the article as well). However, when it comes to voting, it is true, and explains this last election: a good number of us didn't want Trump, McCain, or Romney. None of them represent us well. In my state, if you are going to vote Republican, you cannot vote for the Democrat nominee (you have to vote your party only). It serves democrats, and WA is a democrat state, so that law, is meant to keep democrats of choice in office, I'd think (seems a political power-play to me). I don't complain much because I'm not really interested in who gets into office that I didn't vote for anyway. More directly, I think we'd have had Ted Cruz, if other states worked the same way OR I'm not as familiar with my fellow Republicans. The writers of the article note that the language (emphasis) of a particular party is 'why' Christians are generally Conservative. It also cites harm Republicans have done to groups, as that which makes them liberal or democrat politically (minorities who see damage from republicans, generally are moderate or liberal etc.). Your top states would, by the numbers, be both conservative politically as well as dedicated theologically-spiritually.
    My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
    Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
    Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
    Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
    No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
    Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

    Is Calvinism okay? Yep

    Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

    1Co 13:11 ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

    Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

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    Quote Originally Posted by patrick jane View Post
    There's no such thing as "affordable healthcare" anymore, genius.
    Actually, there is

    Eat right, get plenty of rest and exercise and plan to die of natural causes in your seventies


    And it's free

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ktoyou View Post
    Unless you are real sick
    Or are prepared to wait a few years for "elective" surgeries like hip or knee replacement

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    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post
    No one is saying charity is forced. Some of us are saying you can't be forced to do what you'd be willing to give in the first place
    In the first place, would you be willing to spend your evenings reading stories to your son?

    Of course

    By your logic then, you shouldn't raise a fuss if the governnment forces you to spend your evenings reading stories to your neighbor's children

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