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Thread: When does the biblical day begin?

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    LIFETIME MEMBER jamie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WeberHome View Post
    I suggest that you be a little more circumspect with your choice of words; lest the hapless day arrive when you are forced to eat them.
    Does this mean you don't know the penalty for sin or are you just being circumspect?

    You had asked, "Now, In order for God to grant people innocence, He can't merely forgive them; no, God has to exonerate them; and how to do that legally when there is evidence enough to indict?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    So the Apostles did not eat the Passover until after the Lord Jesus was placed in the tomb?

    I find that impossible to believe with these facts in view:

    "Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed. And he sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat. And they said unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare? And he said unto them, Behold, when ye are entered into the city, there shall a man meet you, bearing a pitcher of water; follow him into the house where he entereth in. And ye shall say unto the goodman of the house, The Master saith unto thee, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples? And he shall shew you a large upper room furnished: there make ready. And they went, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover. And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him. And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer...And as they sat and did eat, Jesus said, Verily I say unto you, One of you which eateth with me shall betray me"
    (Lk.22:7-15;Mk.14:18).

    How can you say with a straight face that the Lord Jesus was in the tomb when His disciples ate the passover?
    Because the Lord's supper was not the Passover.

    After eating Judas gets up and the disciples all think he is to go buy something for the passover the next night... John 13:39 (edit to verse 29 thanks WeberHome)

    No lamb was mentioned no bitter herbs...and Wine was present none is commanded in exodus...and the bread broken was leavened bread not unleavened...Artos in greek not azymos...(this is still a schism between east and west churches)

    Exodus 12:22 is clear none leave the house until morning...and they all left to go to the garden...and singing...not really somber or mourning behavior had they know this was their last supper...He did so wish to celebrate passover with them though...

    John 18:28 Has the authorities not wishing to enter a goyim court lest they be defiled to celebrate the Passover later that day...

    So the last supper was the night before the next day when the lambs were killed and eaten that same day...
    Last edited by clefty; February 27th, 2017 at 08:56 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tambora View Post
    Genesis

    There was evening and morning, the 1st day.
    There was evening and morning, the 2nd day.
    There was evening and morning, the 3rd day.
    There was evening and morning, the 4th day.
    There was evening and morning, the 5th day.
    There was evening and morning, the 6th day.


    The day began with the evening.
    There was darkness on the face of the waters...NO EVENING...then there was Light and it was DAY not evening...it became evening into night into morning ending the first day...

    How do you separate the darkness that covered the face of the waters from the darkness that was the evening/night of the first day?

    To have evening you need light...diminishing light...and there was evening and morning after the night...the first day...

    Repeat that six more times and you have a week...

    Day begins with evening...LOL...night begins with evening...

    Day begins with LIGHT into evening into night into morning the first day...

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    Quote Originally Posted by steko View Post
    There certainly was!
    Duh...but before there was evening there was day...you know when LIGHT was created and called day...not evening



    It certainly did!
    nope it began with Light...then diminishing into evening...

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    Quote Originally Posted by daqq View Post
    Believe what you will; it makes no difference to me.
    I was only trying to explain the six hours of the new creation at Golgotha in Messiah.
    I believe what I am convinced of and usually from scripture...this six hours creation thingy needs more explaination...so have at it...

    I am sure someone is going to talk about the darkness that fell over the land as another night and day to pad the 3 x 3 numbers...

    Wait for it...

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    Quote Originally Posted by S-word View Post
    If you wish to believe that Jesus was not risen on the Sunday morning after the weekly Sabbath. then you are entitled to hold to any erroneous belief that your little mind desires to believe.
    Oh ok...thanks

    Never said He was not risen on the Sunday morning...He was also risen on the Monday and Tuesday...still risen today...but that's a Monday again...

    Little mind...lol...

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    Quote Originally Posted by S-word View Post
    After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb.

    2 There was a violent earthquake, for an angel of the Lord came down from heaven and, going to the tomb, rolled back the stone and sat on it. 3 His appearance was like lightning, and his clothes were white as snow. 4 The guards were so afraid of him that they shook and became like dead men.

    Well one thing is certain according to the scriptures, The tomb in which the body of Jesus was laid, was not opened until early Sunday morning, after the weekly Sabbath.
    A lot more is certain than that even...

    But thanks for double checking...see it was empty...He was NOT THERE

    Rose before the sun came up...the Sabbath day before

    But yes the tomb was opened...and found empty...there goes stolen body theories...but here come glorified body only, not risen in the flesh theories...

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    Quote Originally Posted by S-word View Post
    Correct! But the Lord had to create an extra day to make the prophecy come true, that Jesus would be dead in the flesh for three days and three nights.

    A day anywhere on any planet that orbits a sun, is a period of Darkness followed by an equal period of Light.

    Darkness covered the land from midday until 3 PM, when Jesus died then there was a period of 3 hours of sunlight before the darkness of the 15th day.

    That period of darkness was not an eclipse of the sun, as the longest eclipses last no more than about seven minutes, some heavenly incoming object remained between the sun and the city where Jesus died for three hours, casting its shadow over the land around Jerusalem.

    Perhaps it was this, that caused what was believed to be an earthquake, just as Jesus died.

    Here we see God's added day, 3 hours of darkness followed by an equal period of light.

    Jesus died at the end of that period of darkness, (3 PM) and remained dead for that first day of 3 hours, (day 1) Friday night, (Night 1) Friday, (day 2) Saturday night, (Night 2) Saturday, (day 3) Sunday night, (night 3). Jesus was dead for three days and three nights as prophesied.
    There it is...3 x 3 dead in the grave...despite Jonah was not dead in the whale...or anyone in scripture diagraming this added day...which would of course extend the week and disrupt the count but nobody noticed...

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    Quote Originally Posted by WeberHome View Post
    -
    Were it not for John's gospel, we'd probably be unaware that Jesus ate his own Passover lamb before the Jews ate theirs.

    John 13:1-2 . . Now before the feast of the Passover, when Jesus knew that his hour had come that he should depart from this world to the Father, having loved his own who were in the world, he loved them to the end. And supper being ended, etc.

    John 18:28-29 . . Then they led Jesus from Caiaphas to the Praetorium, and it was early morning. But they themselves did not go into the Praetorium, lest they should be defiled, but that they might eat the Passover.

    John 19:13-14 . . Pilate . . brought Jesus forth, and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called the Pavement, but in the Hebrew, Gabbatha. And it was the preparation of the Passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!

    The Jews' religious calendar was somehow off that year, and good thing too. Apparently it was God's wishes that His son be crucified during preparation day, which is the day that the covenant requires Jews to remove of any and all traces of leavened bread from their homes and also to slaughter and roast lambs with fire ready to eat by sundown for the Passover dinner that night. Had the Jews known the correct date, they likely wouldn't have crucified Jesus on time.

    Matt 26:3-5 . .Then the chief priests and the elders of the people assembled in the palace of the high priest, whose name was Caiaphas, and they plotted to arrest Jesus in some sly way and kill him. But not during the feast-- they said --or there may be a riot among the people.

    Due to their religious calendar's error, the Jews inadvertently crucified Jesus on the very day they wanted to avoid.

    /
    So you would have Him eating Himself...but there is NO MENTION of Lamb in the last supper...prolly cuz it ain't a Seder

    Eating Himself...ugh...it is bad enough we have many eating Him every Sunday but this is getting surreal...

  10. #70
    Over 500 post club WeberHome's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post
    the Lord's supper was not the Passover.
    The Lord's last supper may not have been "the" Passover, but nevertheless it was a Passover.

    Matt 26:17-20 . . On the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, the disciples came to Jesus and asked: Where do you want us to make preparations for you to eat the Passover?

    Mark 14:12-17 . . On the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, when it was customary to sacrifice the Passover lamb, Jesus' disciples asked him: Where do you want us to go and make preparations for you to eat the Passover?

    Luke 22:7-13 . .Then came the day of Unleavened Bread on which the Passover lamb had to be sacrificed. Jesus sent Peter and John, saying: Go and make preparations for us to eat the Passover.

    Luke 22:14-16 . .When the hour came, Jesus and his apostles reclined at the table. And he said to them: I have eagerly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer. For I tell you, I will not eat it again until it finds fulfillment in the kingdom of God.



    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post
    After eating Judas gets up and the disciples all think he is to go buy something for the passover the next night... John 13:39
    I think you meant John 13:29, which reads like this:

    "Since Judas had charge of the money, some thought Jesus was telling him to buy what was needed for the feast, or to give something to the poor.

    The word "Passover" is nowhere in that verse. The "feast" in view is the seven-day feast of unleavened bread which includes, and commences with, the Passover meal. The Lord's dinner was fully prepared; they needed nothing more for it, but there is no indication that he and his men had enough provisions for the rest of the feast; viz: the week ahead.



    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post
    John 18:28
    The Jews' religious calendar was somehow running a day late that year, and good thing too. Apparently it was God's wishes that His son be crucified during preparation day, which is the day that the covenant requires Jews to remove of any and all traces of leavened bread from their homes and also to slaughter and roast lambs with fire ready to eat by sundown for the Passover dinner that night. Had the Jews known the correct date, they likely wouldn't have crucified Jesus on time.

    Matt 26:3-5 . .Then the chief priests and the elders of the people assembled in the palace of the high priest, whose name was Caiaphas, and they plotted to arrest Jesus in some sly way and kill him. But not during the feast-- they said --or there may be a riot among the people.

    Due to their religious calendar's error, the Jews inadvertently crucified Jesus on the very day they wanted to avoid.

    /

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    Quote Originally Posted by WeberHome View Post
    -
    I don't think The Church ever meant for Friday to be historically accurate; but rather, simply convenient for both the laity and the hierarchy.

    The thing is: according to Ex 12:1-20, Passover and the Feast Of Unleavened Bread are joined at the hip. In point of fact, the Passover lamb is supposed to be eaten on the very first night of the Feast of Unleavened Bread. Well; according to Ex 12:16, that night is a sabbath; and I sincerely believe it would mess with people's heads were The Church to attempt to explain the ramifications of that to the average rank and file pew warmer who knows little to nothing about Jewish holy days.

    The trickiest part of the explanation would involve the timing of the normal seventh-day sabbath relative to the feast's sabbath because it just so happens that a regular seventh-day sabbath, and the feast's sabbath are in such close proximity crucifixion week that it's very easy to mistake them as one and the same sabbath.

    Consecutive sabbaths like that happen on occasion due to Yom Kippur, the Feast of Trumpets, and the Feast of Unleavened Bread being floating holy days; thus requiring pious Jews to observe two sabbaths in a row the years when a holy day sabbath runs back to back with a regular seventh-day sabbath.

    /
    Yes teaching the truth does mess with people's heads something the Church desperately seeks to avoid...

    Rules of postponement were especially necessary moving from lunar to solar...to pagan...after 2 Hillel...as Jews attempted to embrace the roman calendar...

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    LIFETIME MEMBER jamie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post
    Rose before the sun came up...the Sabbath day before
    When was he buried?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamie View Post
    The heart of the earth is a figure of speech. It simply means he would be buried in the ground as opposed to being buried above ground.

    The word "heart" can be used literally or figuratively. For example, circumcision of the heart is not referring to a surgical procedure.

    A fish was Jonah's grave, a tomb in the earth was Jesus' grave.
    Ok...so you do allow for figurative language and poetic license...good

    Heart of the earth is Jerusalem...He was confined (as Jonah was)...not dead...confined by Judas' betrayal sealing the deal...arrested, tried, beaten, killed and on the third day rose...notice the sequence

    From being sold to being rose...3 days 3 nights...

    Jonah was not dead for 3 days and 3 nights...dead people dont pray certainly dont pray their way out of their deserved rewards yes?..and being disobedient I imagine he would be in hell...imagine being able to pray your way out of hell...jonah too used poetic license to describe his situation...seaweed wrapped around his head...

    He said my soul faints...not dies or is dead...he didnt say he was in hell but grave...he cant be in a pit under the mountains AND in a whale's belly right?


    no corruption mentioned of his skin...and prophecy said there would be none of His flesh either...

    You need Jonah dead...but he wasn't...

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamie View Post
    Nope, he was dead longer than three days and three nights.

    Jesus died midafternoon on the fourth day of the week and was awakened early on the first day of the weeks.

    He was dead for 75 hours and then he was told to rise and shine.
    So He lied about the third day rising?

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    Quote Originally Posted by WeberHome View Post
    -
    If perchance Jesus' Passover dinner was right on time; and the Jews' calendar a day late; then the chronology of his death and resurrection would look something like this:

    Wednesday: Christ's friends prepare for the feast of unleavened bread; which entails removing leaven from homes and slaughtering and roasting lambs with fire before sundown.

    Wednesday night: Christ eats his Passover dinner

    Thursday: The Romans crucify Jesus while the Jews' prepare for their own feast of unleavened bread

    Thursday night: Jesus' first night in the tomb, the Jews' eat their Passover dinner

    Friday: Jesus first day in the tomb, the Jews' first day of the feast of unleavened bread; which began at sunrise the morning after their Passover dinner.

    Friday night: Jesus' second night in the tomb, the Jews observe the night portion of their regular sabbath, which began at sundown.

    Saturday: Jesus' second day in the tomb, the Jews continue observing the regular sabbath till sundown that day.

    Saturday night: Jesus' third night in the tomb, the Jews shops are back open for business.

    Sunday: Jesus' third day in the tomb.

    /
    Sunday early morning tomb found already empty...not third day in tomb

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