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Thread: Congratulations Daqq, This Thread is just for you. (Exposing your Deceit)

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    Over 4000 post club daqq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freelight View Post
    I prefer to resonate with the song of David and play my own celestial harp in heavenly concert

    Indeed,....the Tabernacle of David is being restored in the last days,...and I believe it will include the restoration of the true harmonies and instruments of worship as in the days of old. And let us not forget the key-note of David....which his house has access to. - the congregation with-in the Messiah, opens and shuts the doors of different dispensations and portals in the Spirit (sound is one medium thru which the cosmic currents flow). What an amazing time to be in! The return to the Beloved.


    Attachment 25358


    Not only is the Sea of Galilee shaped like a harp but also the lake of GanNazaret(!!). Kinnerot (harps) is a plural form as used in a few critical places . . .

    It is disputed by the Jerusalem Talmudists, why 'Chinneroth' occurs sometimes in the plural number; as Joshua 11:2, 'The south of Chinneroth'; and Joshua 12:3, 'The sea of Chinneroth.' "Thence (say they) are there two Gennesarets?"
    http://biblehub.com/library/lightfoo...he_lake_of.htm

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    Quote Originally Posted by steko View Post
    That is emphatically not what Trinitarianism teaches.
    It hides it by saying the two Gods are the one God.

    Then they will say they are one, but the one in the verse does not mean they are same one.

    Ridiculous.

    The issue is not the doctrine itself but the minds which can believe and teach such dribble, who also preach pre-trib rapture, and the Jews are Gods people.

    Their minds and hearts are not right with God.

    LA
    My theology is that the elect of Israel became the scattered church among the nations, and when filled up with the full number of gentiles who believe to become one with them, then Christ will return and gather them, and God will then pour out His wrath on the unbelievers of both Jew and Gentile.

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    Freelight,

    Do you believe the necessity of the blood sacrifice of Christ to save you from your sins and from Gods wrath.


    LA
    My theology is that the elect of Israel became the scattered church among the nations, and when filled up with the full number of gentiles who believe to become one with them, then Christ will return and gather them, and God will then pour out His wrath on the unbelievers of both Jew and Gentile.

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    Eclectic Theosophist freelight's Avatar
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    Arrow Isaiah 9:6 Reviewed........

    ~*~*~

    Hi EE,

    Here is my commentary on Is. 9:6 for your consideration. - the lecture by Rabbi Skobac is especially helpful. Seeing how Jews translate/intepret this passage would be significant for you, assuming you appreciate the Jewish people and their teachers

    Therefore my views on this passage appear to be in harmony with daqqs as far as I can see. I dont know what else specifically there is to say, beyond all my previous commentary on this and Unitarian/Trinitarian matters in general, already amply covered, in circular succession.

    Even with all the possible ways one can READ the passage,...'God' is still 'God', and there is only One Supreme All-mighty DEITY....no matter how one personifies this Deity, or further divides such into a trinity of personaliities.....still One God eh? All is ONE. We are all still 'mono-theists' of one stripe or kind at the end of the day, with different slants, perspectives or points of view on 'this' or 'that',...its still all different water movements or waves in the same infinite ocean. All is still water. Using the analogy of 'air' too, its just different movements of air in the greater ether of space. There is One Infinite SPIRIT, we cant see this Spirit, but we see its effects, and so is everyone who is BORN of this Spirit, we dont know where it comes from or where it goes....but its dynamic presence, inspiration, illumination activates itself, and is self-evident, by the fruit, results, effects we experience. No one has seen 'God', but the Son reveals 'God' to us (in so many ways figuratively, spiritually, metaphorically). We have minds that conceive or conceptualize all this, in all its possible dimensions...and then the Spirit to illumine the inner truths of it, by personal experience. - there you go in a nutshell.

    These fundamentals hold, whether you have a Unitarian, Trinitarian, Oneness, or whatever 'arian' Christology. It only makes a difference if your theology hinders, subverts or distorts the truth in any way, or quenches the Spirit. If it is instrumental and serves the ministry of the Spirit, as a purer channel for grace and faith to manifest, all the better.

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    Over 4000 post club marhig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lazy afternoon View Post
    Freelight,

    Do you believe the necessity of the blood sacrifice of Christ to save you from your sins and from Gods wrath.


    LA
    What do you mean by blood sacrifice? Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by freelight View Post
    Hi all, - just responding to posts as I read them here...past the OP

    Yes,...the video is from Brother Kel,....I've shared his videos on Trinity proof-texts here before as well, he also has a wonderful website resource being the pioneer of 'The Trinity Delusion' resource. - what is odd though is that in LA's original post, there is no video link,...but its in his post in your response to it. Did he delete it from his original post? Kinda odd. I included the video earlier on Titus 2:5 with my commentary response to drbrumely in another thread here.

    Again, I've stated that from my perspective that much of the Unitarian/Trinitarian debates that have taken up a good many years of church council deliberations (with more than a few head-aches along the way) are mere 'cosmetics' and complications in terminology, metaphysics and doctrinal preferencing. Thats it folks. Well, there's more to it of course,...just nuancing the statement to perk things up

    I may address the OP here, since I'm friends with both daqq and EE,..which presents a curious 'tension' in the mix. As EE takes off his kids gloves,...I've always like daqq kept my surgery gloves ON in exegesis, and maybe a tad bit eisegesis,...when needed But then again, I'm all about 'expanding consciousness' and espousing a much more liberal and universal theology, but for the sake of our discussion here on the subject, am circumscribed within the parameters of a judeo-christian context, its terms.

    I've had threads on both historical Unitarianism and Arianism so have some schooling in that area under my belt, so am equipped there with other augments to enhance the discussion. I in these sharing do espouse for the sake of 'creative dialogue', a more Unitarian view, obvously. Its just a 'view'. Its not a dogma. I try not to invest too much into it, except ever hone and sharpen my insight, understanding and knowledge of the subjects (relationally speaking), tempered with love and wisdom, since these religous values and principles rule at the end of the day, while only the pure in heart see God. So we have to be careful that our insistence and demand to conceptualize or believe in a certain way or assume one one point of view is somehow 'absolute', does not obscure or prevent our spirit to be sensitive to the Spirit, and be its fruit-bear...not its griever. It must be one of the gravest of sins to grieve the Spirit, and a much worse sin along the same lines to grieve the spirit of your brother. This is in ancient scripture by the way in one of the earlier gospels, so I bring it up so we can re-evaluate in what 'spirit' we are addressing each other in, and what manner any accusations are being made. (remember the accuser of the brethren? Who is that?).

    Yes, this is point blank...but I'd rather present these important sentiments up front, that we be fair stewards and respecters of one another as children of God, and servants in his kingdom, differences of opinion or Christology asides. Henceforth, love and wisdom must be our constant guides in the conduct of doctrine, and even much more in PRACTICE. It still stands that we will be judged "according to our works". Your faith must be demonstrated to show that is both 'real' and 'alive'. OR it is not. - and this is just the truth. Grin and bear it.

    I ask an important question here about what is so wrong with an Arian view of God and Jesus? Really. I find the 'reasons' shared by trinitarians...so far to be unconvincing. For some its just "because I say so", or some other presuppostional doctrines held which precipitates or requires Jesus to be God, and so on - really,...I can love 'God' and approach him thru His Messiah, just as well....as a Unitarian. - I'm doing awesome Whose protesting? well, only 'protestants' against Unitarianism...thats it. - its all conceptual belief contesting, merely intellectual. I still value and celebrate the 'God' in Jesus, Jesus revealing 'God' to us, absolutely. Jesus came in the flesh,....certainly. The Spirit bears witness with the blood and water (divinity infused with matter)....Jesus did come....and you dont need the added 1 John 5:7 (Comma Johanneum) to still be a real Jesus lover - really.

    I'm only using the 'Arian' example because EE has expressly called it out specifically and apparently has generalized it as a broad 'catagory' in which he has lumped a good many of us - daqq already corrected him about NOT being a true Arian, since there are a few things he does not agree with as held by traditional Arianism. I think it important to know the differences. So while some of COULD be put into an 'Arian' catagory, (do your homework before label pasting)...I think only a few might really qualify to believe exactly like Arius did, and there are sub-catgories and different forms of Arianism too. - for anyone who has studied the Arian Controversy, knows the whole thing is a metaphysical guagmire - and so much over the Father and Son being of either 'like' substance,...or the 'same' substance....OR some variation thereof.AT BEST,...daqq and some of us holding more unitarian views, would probably best be placed under the broader catagory of general 'Unitarian' (with variances individually). I frankly dont mind that, since I understand the term, its history and what it entails or might include. I recognize it as just a 'label', but a helpful one descriptionally speaking. Who we really are as children of God, is the offspring of DEITY. - Pure Spirit, even that seed of potential immortality in us,...transcends religious or finite descriptions,...its beyond words, but we must use words of course to communicate our approximations of such. However, the 'word' is not the 'thing' itself. Be mindful.
    Hi Freelight, I agree with much of your post, but Jesus said that those who are his brothers, sisters and mother are those who do the will of his father.

    So the children of God are those who are doing God's will. Some here say that they don't have have to obey God and Jesus has done it all. And that even if they wilfully sin after knowing God, and no matter how bad that sin it is, then it is ok with God because Jesus has done it all for them. If that is so then their hearts are not being cleansed by the Spirit, and if their hearts are not being cleansed, how can they do the will of God. How can they please God if they still live by the will of their flesh putting everything on Jesus, licking their flesh clean whilst inside remains full of sin. God wants us to be circumcised of the heart, and to be circumstanced means to be cleansed by the Spirit and our old man dead, and we born anew through Christ, by the spirit, and are dying to self daily and living to please God and do his will.

    If we're not doing his will, then we are far from him.

    Matthew 7

    Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.



    My brother's and sisters in God are those who do the will of God, and not just give him lip service!
    Last edited by marhig; February 19th, 2017 at 04:18 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by steko View Post
    Of our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ- Greek: tou megalou theou kai sōtēros Iēsou Christou.

    Greek grammar says when one article 'tou/the' is used with two adjectives separated by 'kai/and', there is
    one object in view. In other words in this verse Christ is both the great GOD and also the Saviour.
    The grammar is the same in 2Peter 1:11.

    2Pe 1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

    The kingdom is of the one person who is both Lord and Saviour.



    Therefore in Titus 2:13 Jesus Christ is both the great GOD and the Saviour

    Regardless of punctuation, in the Greek text there is not a 'that' and a 'the'.
    There is only one definite article....;tou/the' which describes the one person, Jesus Christ who is both the great GOD and Saviour.
    Jesus was in the express image of God because he had the fullness of Gods Spirit, so he was the image of God bodily, because he came to bare witness to the truth and he laid down his life to do the will of God and he only ever spoke what God gave him to speak so he was Emmanuel, God with us. But he isn't the Almighty God.

    And Jesus Christ isn't the Almighty God, but he is God with us, because Jesus was dead to his flesh and he only did whatever God told him to do and spoke what God told him to speak. I am about my father's business he said, he didn't live to please himself but to please God. Thus we didn't know the man Jesus, he was dead, but we knew the Christ, the anointed of God and God was in and through him.

    You and those who believe like you pick out a handful of verses to try and make them suit your beliefs, yet you ignore all the many verses that show clearly the father is the one true God and Jesus Christ is his son. They are bypassed, what do you think of them? I'll quote them again if you like and you can tell me why I shouldn't believe them?

    You don't seem to see that God was in Jesus and he is always with him. The father never left him because he always did what pleased him. So when we see the Christ, we see the father because everything that comes through Christ, comes from the father who is God and Jesus Christ is the mediator between man and God.

    And maybe you can also tell me where it says in the Bible that I must believe in a trinity to be saved, or that I must believe that Jesus is God, or that Jesus is God the son?

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    Eclectic Theosophist freelight's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Doing His will is the Way.......

    Quote Originally Posted by marhig View Post
    Hi Freelight, I agree with much of your post, but Jesus said that those who are his brothers, sisters and mother are those who do the will of his father.

    So the children of God are those who are doing God's will. Some here say that they don't have have to obey God and Jesus has done it all. And that even if they wilfully sin after knowing God, and no matter how bad that sin it is, then it is ok with God because Jesus has done it all for them. If that is so then their hearts are not being cleansed by the Spirit, and if their hearts are not being cleansed, how can they do the will of God. How can they please God if they still live by the will of their flesh putting everything on Jesus, licking their flesh clean whilst inside remains full of sin. God wants us to be circumcised of the heart, and to be circumstanced means to be cleansed by the Spirit and our old man dead, and we born anew through Christ, by the spirit, and are dying to self daily and living to please God and do his will.

    If we're not doing his will, then we are far from him.

    Matthew 7

    Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.



    My brother's and sisters in God are those who do the will of God, and not just give him lip service!



    - not much more to add

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    Over 4000 post club daqq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freelight View Post
    ~*~*~

    Hi EE,

    Here is my commentary on Is. 9:6 for your consideration. - the lecture by Rabbi Skobac is especially helpful. Seeing how Jews translate/intepret this passage would be significant for you, assuming you appreciate the Jewish people and their teachers

    Therefore my views on this passage appear to be in harmony with daqqs as far as I can see. I dont know what else specifically there is to say, beyond all my previous commentary on this and Unitarian/Trinitarian matters in general, already amply covered, in circular succession.

    Even with all the possible ways one can READ the passage,...'God' is still 'God', and there is only One Supreme All-mighty DEITY....no matter how one personifies this Deity, or further divides such into a trinity of personaliities.....still One God eh? All is ONE. We are all still 'mono-theists' of one stripe or kind at the end of the day, with different slants, perspectives or points of view on 'this' or 'that',...its still all different water movements or waves in the same infinite ocean. All is still water. Using the analogy of 'air' too, its just different movements of air in the greater ether of space. There is One Infinite SPIRIT, we cant see this Spirit, but we see its effects, and so is everyone who is BORN of this Spirit, we dont know where it comes from or where it goes....but its dynamic presence, inspiration, illumination activates itself, and is self-evident, by the fruit, results, effects we experience. No one has seen 'God', but the Son reveals 'God' to us (in so many ways figuratively, spiritually, metaphorically). We have minds that conceive or conceptualize all this, in all its possible dimensions...and then the Spirit to illumine the inner truths of it, by personal experience. - there you go in a nutshell.

    These fundamentals hold, whether you have a Unitarian, Trinitarian, Oneness, or whatever 'arian' Christology. It only makes a difference if your theology hinders, subverts or distorts the truth in any way, or quenches the Spirit. If it is instrumental and serves the ministry of the Spirit, as a purer channel for grace and faith to manifest, all the better.

    Hi Freelight,
    I suppose I may as well compile my commentary on Isaiah 9:6 here also:


    Quote Originally Posted by daqq View Post
    While I still do not totally agree with the Young's Literal Bible Translation at least he was not afraid to render it for what it truly says in the most critical portion, and this is shown by how the same word form is rendered in many, many, other places:

    Isaiah 9:6 YLT
    6 For a Child hath been born to us, A Son hath been given to us, And the princely power [הַמִּשְׂרָ֖ה] is on his shoulder, And He doth call his name [וַיִּקְרָ֨א שְׁמ֜וֹ] Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Father of Eternity, Prince of Peace.


    That is indeed what the text says, "HE CALLS HIS NAME", and this changes the whole meaning of what the Prophet is saying because the one who is on the neck or shoulder of the son who is given, (on his neck means, "his yoke"), is Ha-mSARah, that is, the Arche, the Empire, the Dominion, the Head, the Beginning. In other words the son that is given has Ha-mSARah on his neck or shoulder, (and his yoke is χρηστος-chestos-gracious just as he says), and HE CALLS HIS NAME the title or titles which follow in the passage, which are also not likely rendered correctly because of inaccurate vowel pointing in the Masorete Hebrew Text done by those who rejected the Messiah,
    (אביעד = "my father-progenitor of testimony" - "My Testimony Progenitor-Father", i.e. "the Progenitor of my Testimony", [or עד may even mean "witness" just as it is often rendered]).

    PS - "Abiy" is "my Father", (not just "Father" as the English versions like to imagine).
    Go ahead and see if you can prove me wrong.




    VaYikra (Leviticus) - "And He called" . . .

    And that link is simply to show why the book of Leviticus is called VaYikra to begin with; for that is the opening phrase for Leviticus, (Vayikra), and it is the same phrase under discussion and debate in Isaiah 9:6.

    Thus:

    Isaiah 9:6
    9:6 כִּי־ ki- [For] יֶ֣לֶד yeled [a child] יֻלַּד־ yulad- [is born] לָ֗נוּ lanu [unto us] בֵּ֚ן ben [a son] נִתַּן־ nitan- [is given] לָ֔נוּ lanu [unto us] וַתְּהִ֥י vatehi [and will rest] הַמִּשְׂרָ֖ה hamisrah [the princely empire power] עַל־ 'al- [upon] שִׁכְמ֑וֹ shikm
    ow [his neck-shoulder] וַיִּקְרָ֨א vayikra [and he shall call] שְׁמ֜וֹ shemow [his name] פֶּ֠לֶא Phele [too wonderful] יוֹעֵץ֙ yo'etz [counsel-counselor] אֵ֣ל 'el [El] גִּבּ֔וֹר gibbor [Mighty] אֲבִיעַ֖ד 'avi'ad [my Father-Progenitor Testimony-Witness-Everlasting] שַׂר־ sar- [Prince] שָׁלֽוֹם׃ shalom [of Peace].

    Isaiah 9:6
    9:6 For a child is born unto us, a son is given unto us, and the Princely Empire Power shall rest upon his shoulder: and he shall call his name, Pele-Yoetz-El-Gibbor-Abi
    ad-Sar-Shalom.

    The son that is given calls the Princely Power upon his shoulder all those things.
    If one might begin with Pele then see Judges 13:18, (Peli - "too wonderful").

    Judges 13:18
    18 And the Malak of YHWH said to him, Why ask you thus for my name? It is Peli!


    Peli ~ secret, too wonderful, wondrous, wonder working, (Palmoni, Dan 8:13 YLT).




    Moreover the above is no doubt why the Kohanim and Yhudim who rendered the LXX-Septuagint rendered at least the first portion of the passage, (in bold and bold italics), in the following manner:

    Esaias 9:6 (9:5) OG LXX-Septuagint
    9:6 (9:5) οτι παιδιον εγεννηθη ημιν υιος και εδοθη ημιν ου
    η αρχη εγενηθη επι του ωμου αυτου και καλειται το ονομα αυτου μεγαλης βουλης αγγελος εγω γαρ αξω ειρηνην επι τους αρχοντας ειρηνην και υγιειαν αυτω
    http://bibledatabase.net/html/septuagint/23_009.htm

    Isaiah 9:6 OG LXX-Septuagint
    9:6 (9:5) For a child is born unto us, and a son is given unto us, of whom
    the Arche shall be upon his shoulder: and he shall call his name, Messenger of Great Counsel, for I will bring peace upon the princes; peace and health by him.

    Hmmm, Arche . . . . . . .
    Quote Originally Posted by daqq View Post
    According to the Septuagint those who rendered the phrase "El Gibbor" seem to have understood "El" here as "Messenger", (El Gibbor, "Great Messenger" or "Mighty Messenger"), in much the same way that occasionally, in other places such as the Psalms, (cf. Psa 8:5, Heb 2:7, 9), Elohim is/are understood as Messenger/Messengers, (Angels). That seems to be where their understanding of αγγελος-angelos herein is derived, that is, "Messenger", coming from the word for El, (אל). Thus they did not read yoetz as "a counselor" but simply as counsel:

    פלא יועץ אל גבור
    pele yoetz el gibor : mighty messenger of wonderful counsel

    μεγαλης βουλης αγγελος
    megales boules aggelos : mighty messenger of (wonderful) counsel

    This is likely the reading which the Apostolic authors also had before them because the "tampering charge" certainly does not fit in this instance; for certainly no "Trinitarian scribe" would have come along and changed the reading to make it say this!
    Quote Originally Posted by daqq View Post
    εγω γαρ αξω ειρηνην επι τους αρχοντας
    "for I will bring peace to/upon the princes"

    That is the full word abi`ad being read not as "my father of eternity" but as "I will bring (abi) to/unto (H5704 עַד `ad (prep.))", and similar readings can be shown from other places where abi is compounded to make other words which do indeed mean "I will bring" such as the following passages, (among others).

    Genesis 42:37
    וַיֹּאמֶר רְאוּבֵן אֶל־אָבִיו לֵאמֹר אֶת־שְׁנֵי בָנַי תָּמִית אִם־לֹא אֲבִיאֶנּוּ אֵלֶיךָ תְּנָה אֹתֹו עַל־יָדִי וַאֲנִי אֲשִׁיבֶנּוּ אֵלֶֽיךָ׃

    (if not) "I bring him" — אֲבִיאֶ֖נּוּ

    Isaiah 43:5
    אַל־תִּירָא כִּי אִתְּךָ־אָנִי מִמִּזְרָח אָבִיא זַרְעֶךָ וּמִֽמַּעֲרָב אֲקַבְּצֶֽךָּ׃

    "I will bring" — אָבִ֣יא

    Isaiah 60:17
    תַּחַת הַנְּחֹשֶׁת אָבִיא זָהָב וְתַחַת הַבַּרְזֶל אָבִיא כֶסֶף וְתַחַת הָֽעֵצִים נְחֹשֶׁת וְתַחַת הָאֲבָנִים בַּרְזֶל וְשַׂמְתִּי פְקֻדָּתֵךְ שָׁלֹום וְנֹגְשַׂיִךְ צְדָקָֽה׃

    "I will bring" — אָבִ֣יא

    So they in the Septuagint are reading abi`ad, (אבי
    עד), from Isa 9:6 as one word meaning "I will bring to/unto/upon", and it is indeed written as a single compound word, (as opposed to something like אבי־עד).

    Isaiah 9:6 WLC (Consonants Only)
    כי־ילד ילד־לנו בן נתן־לנו ותהי המשרה על־שכמו ויקרא שמו פלא יועץ אל גבור אביעד שר־שלום׃

    אביעד שר־שלום
    אבי — I bring, (or "my father")
    עד — H5704 עַד — to/unto/upon, (or H5703 עַד perpetuity, or H5707 עֵד witness)
    שר־שלום — sar־shalom

    The point above is not that the Septuagint absolutely must be the correct reading but that they certainly understood ancient Hebrew and were much, much, closer to the original text and much less removed from an understanding of it than those of modern times. And yet they did not see abi`ad, (אביעד), anywhere close to how it is understood by today's modern scholarship. Also one must remember that they did not have the vowel pointing which came a thousand years later with the Masorete Hebrew text.

    The ultimate point is this: the Trinitarian readings are nothing more than opinions.
    Isaiah 9:6
    9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given, and the Power of the Empire shall rest upon the yoke of his neck: and he shall call his name,
    Wonderful Counsel Mighty Messenger, My Father's Witness, the Prince of Peace.

    If the Father kiss you on the neck; no doubt the kingdom of Elohim is upon you!

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    Quote Originally Posted by daqq View Post
    Isaiah 9:6
    9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given, and the Power of the Empire shall rest upon the yoke of his neck: and he shall call his name,
    Wonderful Counsel Mighty Messenger, My Father's Witness, the Prince of Peace.

    If the Father kiss you on the neck; no doubt the kingdom of Elohim is upon you!
    Luke 15:20-24
    20 And he arose, and came to his father: but when he was yet a great way off his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.
    21 And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called your son.
    22 But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet:
    23 And bring here the fattened calf, and slay it; and let us eat, and be merry!
    24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.

    (And our Elohim Most High is an all consuming fire!)

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    Quote Originally Posted by daqq View Post
    Hmmm, Arche . . . . . . .
    Quote Originally Posted by daqq View Post
    Isaiah 9:6
    9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given, and the Power of the Empire shall rest upon the yoke of his neck: and he shall call his name,
    Wonderful Counsel Mighty Messenger, My Father's Witness, the Prince of Peace.

    If the Father kiss you on the neck; no doubt the kingdom of Elohim is upon you!
    Quote Originally Posted by daqq View Post
    Luke 15:20-24
    20 And he arose, and came to his father: but when he was yet a great way off his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.
    21 And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called your son.
    22 But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet:
    23 And bring here the fattened calf, and slay it; and let us eat, and be merry!
    24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.

    (And our Elohim Most High is an all consuming fire!)
    Quote Originally Posted by daqq View Post
    It will likely be more like this:



    And it will happen anywhere anytime the Father decides but especially terrible visions of the night. Maybe even your carnal minded eyes of the flesh man seeing all spiritual and supernal things according to the natural man will dissolve in their sockets while you stand on your feet.

    And when you awaken, if you awaken, so shall you ever be with the Master.
    Revelation 10:1-7
    1 And I saw another Mighty Messenger descending from the heavens, clothed with a cloud: and a
    rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire.
    2 And he had in his hand a little sefer opened: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth:
    3 And cried with a mighty voice, as when a lion roars: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices.
    4 And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from the heavens saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.
    5 And the Messenger which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his right hand to the heavens:
    6 And swore by Him that lives into the ages of the ages, who created the heavens and the things therein, and the earth and the things therein, and the sea and the things therein, that there should be time no longer:
    7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh Messenger, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of Elohim should be finished, as He has declared to His servants the Prophets.

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    I didn't expect to get a chance to post...

    But I have a couple of seconds.... so....

    @marhig ... all verses answered for...it became redundant... so I added a riddle and some interesting observations and possible solutions to the issue I am now certain of...

    Why did you give me a bunch of verses that prove Jesus is YHWH?

    Quote Originally Posted by marhig View Post
    It is not mine to grant but is for those for whom it has been prepared by my Father.(Matthew 20:20-23 KJV)
    Jesus is not only the presence and "face" of YHWH (Son of God) (Matthew 1:18)... but He YHWH Son relates to YHWH Father in a manner that teaches us "Faith"... The Son is the Full Revelation of God ... (Colossians 2:9) ... However... Jesus reveals why He won't reveal everything prophetic... That Only "Avi-'ad" knows. Though He is the marriage of Avi-'ad (Isaiah 9:6) and Humanity... through the protected lineage of the OT. (John 16:12)

    Quote Originally Posted by marhig View Post
    My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?(Matthew 26:39 & 27:46 KJV)
    Because "God with Us" was doing this... (Hebrews 2:14) and showing us that He (Avi-'ad) would rather suffer in our place then spend eternity without us.

    Quote Originally Posted by marhig View Post
    Father, if you wish, remove this cup from me, not by my will, but thy will.(Luke 22:42 KJV)
    God (YeHoshua... YHWH is Salvation ... Jesus) is teaching us how to forsake our desire to do things by the "Flesh". As in... take the work of salvation into our hands... or "Trust" GODS "PLAN" Alone!

    Quote Originally Posted by marhig View Post
    Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit.(Luke 23:46 KJV)
    This is the central point that brings the second union of everything. First (Avi-'ad) unified with humanity (Luke 1:35)... then ... He Bore our Sins before His (Avi-'ad) Face.

    Because he fulfilled the Law in His flesh... the evil one lost his power over humanity (1 Corinthians 15:54f, 56) ... and again... (Colossians 2:14)

    But... fully revealed in this INSERT ZECHARIAH 3 scripture path... please click on the links and read them... evaluate them... apparently this is too complicated for @daqq. The path is in the OP... it starts out explaining that Jesus bore our shame outside the Camp... It is the longest scripture path I have ever been blessed enough to record... while studying and praying...

    Quote Originally Posted by marhig View Post
    Father, the hour is come; glorify your Son - as you have given him power over all flesh

    John continues:

    Life eternal is this to know thee the only true God and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.(John 17:1-3 KJV)
    (Isaiah 43:11)

    Quote Originally Posted by marhig View Post
    Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. (John 5:19 KJV)
    Again... this is (Avi-'ad) teaching us faith. Why Faith? Because (Ephesians 2:8 + Romans 4:4-5 + Galatians 5:4)

    Quote Originally Posted by marhig View Post
    I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me bears witness of me. (John 8:18 KJV).
    (1 John 5:7 + Matthew 28:19 + Philippians 2:9f , 11)

    Quote Originally Posted by marhig View Post
    Touch me not, for I am not yet ascended to my Father…I ascend unto my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.”(John 20:17 KJV)
    (1 Timothy 3:16)

    Quote Originally Posted by marhig View Post
    I go unto the Father, for my Father is greater than I.”(John 14:28 KJV)
    (Philippians 2:6-7)

    Quote Originally Posted by marhig View Post
    I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.(John 5-30)
    Position of Faith being demonstrated... Also consider this closely as it is the one of many places Jesus outright reveals that He is the face of the Father... outside of John's writings...

    (Luke 4:12) ... In context... it appears Satan is asking Jesus to tempt God in Heaven... However... As God... The Unification of Avi-ad and Humanity (Ephesians 5:30)... He is clearly referring to Himself (Colossians 2:9) as the Unification of God... (John 10:30)

    He is literally saying... Don't tempt "Me".

    Note... He doesn't say... "Don't tempt My God..." He is quoting scripture... But (John 5:39) The Bible is about "Avi-'ad" ... The Mighty Father.... But... it takes "faith" to see this! You have to be so desperate for HIM that you fall on your knees and Confess Who He is... you must also be unafraid to confess Him before mankind... (John 10:32)

    Quote Originally Posted by marhig View Post
    I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me. (John 5)
    Again... He is expressing the genuine relationship between the Father and Son... and... He is teaching us FAITH in Him that yields salvation. (John 6:63 + John 6:29)

    Think about this...

    "This is the work of God..." (Who is standing before them... John 8:58) "That you believe in the ONE HE Sent (John 1:18 + As @daqq pointed out
    Quote Originally Posted by Daqq
    ... "be sure to keep the first commandment and do not put yourself on equal footing with your heavenly Father, oh little elohim; for He says, "You shall have no other elohim against My face!", (meaning "equal to Me", Exo 20:3)---
    which makes you wonder... How Has Jesus Seen the Face of God, If He isn't God... since no one is equal to God but God?

    I mean... think about it... No matter how you render (John 1:1)

    "And the Word was God" or "And the word was 'a' God" ... consider this (Isaiah 45:5)

    Quote Originally Posted by marhig View Post
    Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is God(Mark 10:17-18 KJV)
    (John 10:11)

    Quote Originally Posted by marhig View Post
    And that is none other God but one. For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, but to us there is but one God, the Father of whom are all things and we in him, and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things and we by him. (1 Corinthians 8:4-6 KJV)
    Again... this kind of backfires for Arians in light of (John 1:1) and (Isaiah 45:5)

    But... (Isaiah 44:24f) tells us that God, alone... Created everything and... (Colossians 1:16f, 17f, 18f) says that Jesus created all things... as in "Logos is the HANDS of YHWH"... and all things were by Him and through Him. (John 1:3)

    Quote Originally Posted by marhig View Post
    But I would have you know that the head of every man in Christ and the head of the woman is the man and the head of Christ is God. (1 Corinthians 11:3).
    If our Head is Christ... Humanity to Jesus... Implying the (Ephesians 5:30) marriage of the Unity of us to Him...

    Who would he be if His "Bodies Head" is ... God?

    Who would have God's Head??? Hmmm

    And on that note... how about those Ten Commandments... Exodus 20:4 ... an image is a likeness of God... yet consider these verses... (Hebrews 1:3 + Colossians 1:15). "Image of God?" What? Is this right... Would God share worship with another? (Exodus 34:14) ... What? What is this? (Philippians 2:9f, 11)

    Did God Change His mind? (Hebrews 13:8 + Malachi 3:6)

    Hmmmmmm?

    Did God... YHWH ... Come in Flesh?

    (Philippians 2:9f, 11) + (1 Timothy 3:16; John 1:14) (1 John 4:2 + 1 John 1:7)

    @marhig ... perhaps you should (Psalm 2:12)

    Quote Originally Posted by marhig View Post
    For there is one God and one mediator between God and man,the man Christ Jesus.(1 Timothy 2:5 KJV)
    ... Pray to Jesus as YHWH and ask Him to (John 9:25)

    Quote Originally Posted by marhig View Post
    Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and the God of all comfort. (2Corinthians 1:3 KJV)
    (Isaiah 9:6)

    Quote Originally Posted by marhig View Post
    Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Peter 1:3 KJV)
    Every knee will bow @marhig ... Ask YHWH if He is Jesus Christ ... tell Him you believe... help you with your unbelief!

    Ask Him to forgive you if you are wrong... But read the book of John in one sitting after you have done this...

    Ask Him to open Evil.Eye.<(I)>'s eyes if he is a blind fool and He is not YHWH... but please... please ask Jesus YHWH to open your eyes if they are blind to WHO He is...

    Quote Originally Posted by marhig View Post
    Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.(Hebrews 10)
    (John 6:29). Do it @marhig ... do the "work of God!"

    Quote Originally Posted by marhig View Post
    These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: As thou hast given him power over all flesh,that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent..I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
    (Ephesians 1:22 + Isaiah 66:1)

    Quote Originally Posted by marhig View Post
    That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him.
    Riddle Time

    A man is looking at a photograph of someone. His friend asks who it is.
    The man replies, 'Brothers and sisters, I have none. But that man's father is my father's son'.

    Who is in the photograph?

    Quote Originally Posted by marhig View Post
    Revelation 1

    The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him
    Revelation 22:13, 14, 15, 16 + Revelation 1:8 + Isaiah 44:6)

    Quote Originally Posted by marhig View Post
    Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.(Hebrews 1:9)
    (Psalms 89:20, 26)

    Quote Originally Posted by marhig View Post
    Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown. Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God and I will write upon him my new name..He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
    (Revelation 22:13, 14, 15, 16 + Revelation 1:8 + Isaiah 44:6)
    Last edited by Evil.Eye.<(I)>; February 19th, 2017 at 01:01 PM.
    Open (Beyond Time ...1 Ki. 8:27) Relational to us within Time (John 1:1)
    Dispensational (2 Ti. 2:15)
    It's All About Jesus and He's the theology (John 5:39f)
    Biblical (2 Ti. 3:16)
    Zionist (Rm. 11:25-36)
    There is only one Commentary!
    (1 John 2:27; Rm. 8:9; Php. 1:19; Mt. 23:8)

    Salvation is Free (Eph. 2:8f) !!! It depends on his strength, not mine!!! (2 Co. 12:9)

    Stupid things Tet says...

    Quote Originally Posted by tetelestai View Post
    The old heavens and old earth was the law and the Old Covenant.

    The new heavens and new earth is the New Covenant.

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    @daqq...

    Aside from whining and nit picking that the Azazal goat infers that it goes to Azazal... The 4 methods I addressed in this OP fully refute your attempt to wall this OP out.

    ; )

    Who is your Sin Bearer?

    I don't see one scriptural reply worth taking seriously in your words.

    OP points stand. Plus... you as always dodge all of the scripture I addressed in ... everywhere!

    Twisting and bull allegory doesn't count!
    Open (Beyond Time ...1 Ki. 8:27) Relational to us within Time (John 1:1)
    Dispensational (2 Ti. 2:15)
    It's All About Jesus and He's the theology (John 5:39f)
    Biblical (2 Ti. 3:16)
    Zionist (Rm. 11:25-36)
    There is only one Commentary!
    (1 John 2:27; Rm. 8:9; Php. 1:19; Mt. 23:8)

    Salvation is Free (Eph. 2:8f) !!! It depends on his strength, not mine!!! (2 Co. 12:9)

    Stupid things Tet says...

    Quote Originally Posted by tetelestai View Post
    The old heavens and old earth was the law and the Old Covenant.

    The new heavens and new earth is the New Covenant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil.Eye.<(I)> View Post
    @daqq...

    Aside from whining and nit picking that the Azazal goat infers that it goes to Azazal... The 4 methods I addressed in this OP fully refute your attempt to wall this OP out.

    ; )
    Who is your Sin Bearer?
    I don't see one scriptural reply worth taking seriously in your words.OP points stand. Plus... you as always dodge all of the scripture I addressed in ... everywhere!

    Twisting and bull allegory doesn't count!
    ALL Daqq DOES is post scriptures and all you do is claim he doesn't. Do you think people are blind on here, or what?

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    Quote Originally Posted by keypurr View Post
    Lets look at the ARAMAIC of Titus 2:13;

    13. looking for the blessed hope and the manifestation of the glory of the great Elohim and our Life-giver, Y'shua the Mashiyach

    Greek can distort the intent of the scriptures.
    OMGoodness! Squeeeeeeeeeeeeee. I'm so very happy you decided to enter the Aramaic bible in discussion!!!

    Apart from the fact that Jesus is in The Father's Tabernacle Shine... GLORY... in the scriptural intent of what you have written... Look at the Red... One GLORY is referenced and look at the BLOOD RED... hmmmmmm... 2 are contained in the ONE Glory!?!

    But... best of all, as my wife pointed out to me... the Aramaic bible is better suited to refute you and Daqq.

    Examples?

    John 8 translated from the Aramaic Bible

    John 8:12 "And Yeshua spoke again with them and he said: "I AM THE LIVING GOD, The Light of the world. Whoever follows me shall not walk in darkness but shall find* the light of life."

    John 8:18 "I AM THE LIVING GOD, I who testify about myself, and my Father who has sent me has testified about Me."

    John 8:24 "I said to you that you shall die in your sins, for unless you shall believe that I AM THE LIVING GOD, you shall die in your sins."

    John 8:28 "Yeshua spoke again to them : "When you have lifted up The Son of Man, then you shall know that I AM THE LIVING GOD, and I do nothing for my own pleasure, but just as my Father has taught me, so I am speaking."

    John 8:58 "Yeshua said to them: "Timeless truth I speak to you: Before Abraham would exist, I AM THE LIVING GOD."

    Verses 8:12 ... 8:18 ... 8:24 ... 8:28 ... 8:58 are particularly scandalous...

    No wonder they picked up stones to stone HIM.

    John 8:59 "and they picked up stones to stone him, and Yeshua hid himself and went out from The Temple and passed through their midst and moved on."

    # Thanks for bolstering the OP @keypurr

    Thank Goodness you and @daqq aren't scripturally Duplicitous! I mean... after saying... "Lets look at the ARAMAIC" & "Greek can distort the intent of the scriptures."... to @steko ... you wouldn't turn around and discount Aramaic... Would you? I mean... that would show that you and @daqq are being false "Diviners" with the Holy Scriptures of YeHoshua, Immanuel, "Avi-'ad"...

    # whooooooopsie
    Open (Beyond Time ...1 Ki. 8:27) Relational to us within Time (John 1:1)
    Dispensational (2 Ti. 2:15)
    It's All About Jesus and He's the theology (John 5:39f)
    Biblical (2 Ti. 3:16)
    Zionist (Rm. 11:25-36)
    There is only one Commentary!
    (1 John 2:27; Rm. 8:9; Php. 1:19; Mt. 23:8)

    Salvation is Free (Eph. 2:8f) !!! It depends on his strength, not mine!!! (2 Co. 12:9)

    Stupid things Tet says...

    Quote Originally Posted by tetelestai View Post
    The old heavens and old earth was the law and the Old Covenant.

    The new heavens and new earth is the New Covenant.

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