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Thread: Arianism.

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    Over 4000 post club marhig's Avatar
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    Accidentally Duplicated post

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    Over 4000 post club daqq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marhig View Post
    Hi Daqq,

    I know I'm only a housewife and I'm not a well educated but, i see Christ lifted up differently. The lift up and glorified isn't on the cross, it's when Christ is lifted up and glorified in our hearts, we are the earth that he's lifted up from. Then once this happens and he lives through us and those born of God speak the word and gospel, then those bitten by serpents (devil's) are healed. We are still a serpent, because we are in this flesh that Satan (who is the serpent in the garden,) is the God of.

    But once we believe the gospel and lift up Christ and are born of God, then we are lifted from this world and we glorify God and Christ and Gods love and the life of Christ is seen in and through us. And those who hear the word and believe on them and in the gospel are healed.

    I don't normally share the deeper things of God here as they get ripped to bits by some, but I just don't see Jesus being scourged crucified and murdering him as glorifying him, as Satan was behind it all. And it was a wicked act. I hope you don't mind me sharing this with you, I'm not putting you down, I believe very much like you as I know that many things you say are of God. But I can't see murdering Jesus as glorifying him. The whole crucifixion is a horrific thing to do to the holy son of the living God, and we glorify him by laying down our lives, dying the death and letting others see the life of Gods holy son through us, by the power of the Spirit.

    Your friend in God, Mary.
    It's all good but I think you misunderstand my point of view:
    In the beginning the Logos was with the Elohim and the Logos was Elohim.
    But no one has seen or beheld Elohim at any time, (Jn 1:18a ASV, 1Jn 4:12a ASV).
    Elohim is not a man; neither is His Word, and His Word is food, (Lamb and Dove).

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    Over 4000 post club marhig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daqq View Post
    It's all good but I think you misunderstand my point of view:
    In the beginning the Logos was with the Elohim and the Logos was Elohim.
    But no one has seen or beheld Elohim at any time, (Jn 1:18a ASV, 1Jn 4:12a ASV).
    Elohim is not a man; neither is His Word, and His Word is food, (Lamb and Dove).
    Absolutely, Jesus is the Christ meaning the anointed of God, so the word is God, and God was in Christ Jesus, reconciling the world unto himself by the power of the Spirit. Jesus only spoke what the father gave him to speak and without him he said he could do nothing, and he said to the father in prayer, thou hast given me power over all flesh. And that power comes through the strength and word of the Spirit.

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    LIFETIME MEMBER meshak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marhig View Post
    Absolutely, Jesus is the Christ meaning the anointed of God, so the word is God, and God was in Christ Jesus, reconciling the world unto himself by the power of the Spirit. Jesus only spoke what the father gave him to speak and without him he said he could do nothing, and he said to the father in prayer, thou hast given me power over all flesh. And that power comes through the strength and word of the Spirit.
    well said, amen.

    too many Christians playing scholar and I don't believe Jesus approve of His followers argue over doctrines. It may satisfy their ego but contribute nothing to strive to be like Jesus.

    You don't need complicated doctrine to be like Jesus. He gave us simple instructions.

    Lets keep Jesus' simple teachings simple.
    If you want to be true to God and Jesus, abandon any kind of violence at all cost. By advocating any kind of violence, you are misrepresenting Christianity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wick Stick View Post
    Having a "Christology" at all would seem to indicate that the topic is so complex as to require much study and explaining. That's the the "logy" part of the word there.

    By way of comparison, after doing the "much study" part, I have come to a view so simple that it hardly rates a paragraph:

    God is a Mind, in search of a body. Jesus was a vessel perfectly suited to God's full range of purposes and attributes. Those today who become members of the body are also vessels, though in a limited way by comparison.
    So for you, Jesus Christ was a vessel, not a person.

    He was then a human costume that God clothed himself with?

    If that is true, then God did not die for our sins as many allege, but only his human costume was what? discarded?
    "And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers." Acts 2:42

    "Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind" Philippians 2:2

    Pro scripture = Protestant

  8. #171
    Over 4000 post club marhig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meshak View Post
    well said, amen.
    too many Christians playing scholar and I don't believe Jesus approve of His followers argue over doctrines. It may satisfy their ego but contribute nothing to strive to be like Jesus.

    You don't need complicated doctrine to be like Jesus. He gave us simple instructions.

    Lets keep Jesus' simple teachings simple.
    Meshak I couldn't comment before as I was on my way out to our house meeting, yes you're absolutely right. People try to complicate the way, but Jesus made it simple, he is the way, and we are to strive to be more like him and deny ourselves obey the Spirit of God within, let him put our fleshly nature to death and as we walk in the Spirit we will truly follow Jesus and worship God in Spirit and in truth.

    We were reading this, this morning in our meeting

    Galatians 4

    Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods. But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

    Many say that they know God, but they should rather be known of God, and you know those who are known of God because they live by his will and become servants and lift Christ up rather than lift themselves up like many do. We won't be servants to the bondage of the flesh but free of this world.

    God will only know those who are willing to lay down their lives for others and love him with all their hearts, and if we love him with all our hearts then we will want to obey him, and do his will, not because we are commanded to but because we want to as we walk in the the Spirit and love him and Christ from our hearts and worship him in Spirit and in truth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by oatmeal View Post
    So for you, Jesus Christ was a vessel, not a person.

    He was then a human costume that God clothed himself with?

    If that is true, then God did not die for our sins as many allege, but only his human costume was what? discarded?
    No, that isn't what I said or meant. I think we must define some words differently.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wick Stick View Post
    No, that isn't what I said or meant. I think we must define some words differently.
    Thanks for the reply. Most certainly, we must work with definitions of words if we are to communicate clearly
    "And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers." Acts 2:42

    "Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind" Philippians 2:2

    Pro scripture = Protestant

  12. #174
    Over 4000 post club daqq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daqq View Post
    John 7:38-39
    38 he who is believing in me, according as the Writing said, Rivers out of his belly shall flow of living water;'
    39 and this he said of the Spirit, which those believing in him were about to receive; for not yet was the Holy Spirit, because Jesus was not yet glorified.


    And the W/H says, "For not yet was the Spirit", (instead of "Holy Spirit"), but the main point is that the Greek word for given is not found in any codex, manuscript, or fragment, and given within this passage is rather generally put in italics because it has been inserted. However, as shown in the Young's version above, when you do not insert given into the text it completely alters, (corrects), the meaning of the statement: for not yet was the Spirit because the Master was not yet glorified, and he was exalted-lifted-up-glorified at Golgotha, as Moses lifted up the Seraph in the desert: and when the Spirit of the Testimony of the Master Teacher was complete, he confirmed this thinking by the statement, "It is finished", and then he commended and delivered up that Spirit into the hands of the Father, (and no doubt it was accepted on High because it was already sealed by the Father as holy spiritual food). But once one becomes a hardcore textual literalist, (as in the example from the YLT above), the same will no doubt come to the realization that the physical minded interpretations of the scripture, which the mainstream believes and teaches, simply cannot possibly be held true throughout. For instance: how are you going to have rivers of living water flowing out of your cavity? The Son of Man has given it freely; it is in the Gospel accounts, the Spirit-Testimony of the Messiah, but we must drink it first before the cistern-cavity is filled and begins to overflow and quaff the garden, like the four rivers of the four heads in the beginning. So I suppose I would not really be the Montanus type because I count myself as being under the authority of what is written, and that is also Holy Spirit.
    Quote Originally Posted by marhig View Post
    Hi Daqq,

    I know I'm only a housewife and I'm not a well educated but, i see Christ lifted up differently. The lift up and glorified isn't on the cross, it's when Christ is lifted up and glorified in our hearts, we are the earth that he's lifted up from. Then once this happens and he lives through us and those born of God speak the word and gospel, then those bitten by serpents (devil's) are healed. We are still a serpent, because we are in this flesh that Satan (who is the serpent in the garden,) is the God of.

    But once we believe the gospel and lift up Christ and are born of God, then we are lifted from this world and we glorify God and Christ and Gods love and the life of Christ is seen in and through us. And those who hear the word and believe on them and in the gospel are healed.

    I don't normally share the deeper things of God here as they get ripped to bits by some, but I just don't see Jesus being scourged crucified and murdering him as glorifying him, as Satan was behind it all. And it was a wicked act. I hope you don't mind me sharing this with you, I'm not putting you down, I believe very much like you as I know that many things you say are of God. But I can't see murdering Jesus as glorifying him. The whole crucifixion is a horrific thing to do to the holy son of the living God, and we glorify him by laying down our lives, dying the death and letting others see the life of Gods holy son through us, by the power of the Spirit.

    Your friend in God, Mary.
    Quote Originally Posted by marhig View Post
    Absolutely, Jesus is the Christ meaning the anointed of God, so the word is God, and God was in Christ Jesus, reconciling the world unto himself by the power of the Spirit. Jesus only spoke what the father gave him to speak and without him he said he could do nothing, and he said to the father in prayer, thou hast given me power over all flesh. And that power comes through the strength and word of the Spirit.
    If you are doing the will of Elohim then you also are in the process of being "lifted up", that is, "crucified with Messiah", as even Paul says. For example from the same passage which I quoted when you responded above: when was it that you first heard the great invocation? What day was it? We must be willing to change our own mindset and come to Messiah under his terms; the terms of his Testimony which is recorded for us in the Gospel accounts. In other words put yourself literally into the text, (a frame of mind), and suddenly you are become part of a new family of people: all Israel.

    No matter what day or time of year it was when you first heard the great invocation it was in this day which follows below in the final passage quote:

    John 7:2 ASV
    2 Now the feast of the Jews, the feast of tabernacles, was at hand.

    John 7:14 ASV
    14 But when it was now the midst of the feast Jesus went up into the temple, and taught.
    [and behold, he cut the week of Sukkot-Tabernacles in half]

    John 7:17 ASV
    17 If any man willeth to do his will, he shall know of the teaching, whether it is of God, or whether I speak from myself.

    John 7:37-38 ASV
    37 Now on the last day, the great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me and drink.
    38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, from within him shall flow rivers of living water.


    This last great day of Sukkot-Tabernacles is called Shemini Atzeret, which means the eighth day of assembly, a holy convocation, and at this point the feast comes to a close, (the next day is called Simchat Torah, and the Torah reading cycle in the synagogue turns a revolution and begins anew at Genesis, but it is also a day immediately following the feast and is like an "afterglow day", which is more private as if an afterglow day with a teacher and his disciples after the huge crowds have gone home from the feast, and so on).

    The point is that if you put yourself mentally into the text then, no matter when you actually heard the great invocation, you heard it in this day, Shemini Atzeret, the last great day of the feast of Tabernacles; for that is the only day in which the great invocation was given, and it was given by the Master Teacher, and we are to come to him if we are to understand the will of the Father. You are now therefore on a time line, appointed times having been laid out for you in the scripture; hidden but hidden in plain sight, (O the riches!). You are at that point set in the process of "running a race" sort of speak, as Paul also says: however you have missed the feast of Tabernacles at this point in your new walk, howbeit the point aimed at is the day when time is no more, (your seventh trumpet, for the Spirit of the Apocalypse and its prophetic sayings is the Spirit-Testimony of the Master, Rev 19:10 YLT). And when time is no more; you will no more know Messiah according to the flesh as you seem to understand him now, (2Cor 5:16, 17 quoting from Rev 21:4, 5), my friend.

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    Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
    Heb 9:13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
    Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
    Heb 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
    Heb 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
    Heb 9:17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
    Heb 9:18 Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.
    Heb 9:19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
    Heb 9:20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
    Heb 9:21 Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
    Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
    My theology is that the elect of Israel became the scattered church among the nations, and when filled up with the full number of gentiles who believe to become one with them, then Christ will return and gather them, and God will then pour out His wrath on the unbelievers of both Jew and Gentile.

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    Quote Originally Posted by oatmeal View Post
    Thanks for the reply. Most certainly, we must work with definitions of words if we are to communicate clearly
    I think "vessel" is where we went different directions.

    To my thinking, every person is a vessel. I mean... some are empty, some are a quart low, some are full, and some overflowing. And perhaps they are not full of the same thing, but... they are all vessels nonetheless.

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    Over 4000 post club marhig's Avatar
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    Hi Daqq,

    Sorry been busy, I'll have to have a good read of that when I get a chance.

    I believe it's so simple, Jesus is the Christ, the son is the living God. He came to bare witness to the truth, and those who are of the truth hear his voice and we follow him the true shepherd.

    Once we believe we, we obey his teachings and live by the will of God through faith. And those who love God from their hearts will put him before themselves and put their life last and him first and turn from sin and the works of this world and the building up in it and God with strengthen us to overcome if we have true faith. And by the grace of God we will love others with the love that God has changed our hearts with.

    To love is the way to please God, and Jesus came and preached the word and lived it out through the gospel he showed us how to live and love God and others, bringing us a new and living way to follow. He is the way the truth and the life, and those who truly following him have God's love and his life made manifest by the Spirit within and it brings great joy and peace to the heart.

    Speak soon

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    Over 4000 post club oatmeal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wick Stick View Post
    I think "vessel" is where we went different directions.

    To my thinking, every person is a vessel. I mean... some are empty, some are a quart low, some are full, and some overflowing. And perhaps they are not full of the same thing, but... they are all vessels nonetheless.
    God figuratively uses the word vessel to indicate that we are containers that have contents.

    II Timothy 2

    Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

    20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.

    21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

    22 Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

    However, it is clear that it is the individual son of God that must purge themselves of ungodly contents thus becoming a vessel unto honor, fit for the master's use and prepared unto every good work.

    The vessel determines how useful they are willing to be to God and to His son.

    God does not, for he does not force himself into our lives, He in response to our believing and seeking Him influences our lives in this context.

    Thus applying these concepts to Jesus Christ the son of God we learn that Jesus Christ had God in his life because Jesus Christ was willing to have God in his life.. He chose to do God's will over his own, he chose to humbly obey, to honor his Father and mother, Philippians 2

    God did not force himself into His son's life, his mind and his heart, Jesus Christ chose to do the Father's will thus the Father was always with him, Jesus Christ chose to be on the same page, yes, even the same word as the Father, (I speak those things which the Father gives me to speak) thus Jesus Christ could declare, because he walked, lived, thought, acted in harmony with the Father, "I and my Father are one" ie, one in purpose. Same Greek word for one as found in Corinthians where God has Paul state, he who plants and he who waters are one.
    "And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers." Acts 2:42

    "Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind" Philippians 2:2

    Pro scripture = Protestant

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    Quote Originally Posted by daqq View Post
    It's all good but I think you misunderstand my point of view:
    In the beginning the Logos was with the Elohim and the Logos was Elohim.
    But no one has seen or beheld Elohim at any time, (Jn 1:18a ASV, 1Jn 4:12a ASV).
    Elohim is not a man; neither is His Word, and His Word is food, (Lamb and Dove).
    John 1:14 KJV -
    1 Corinthians 15:1-2 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV -


    Colossians 1:13-14 KJV - Colossians 1:15-16 KJV - Colossians 1:17-18 KJV -

    Colossians 1:19-20 KJV - Colossians 1:21-22 KJV - Colossians 1:23 KJV -

    Colossians 1:25-26 KJV 27, 28, 29 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Ephesians 1:12-13, 14 -



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    Quote Originally Posted by patrick jane View Post
    John 1:14 KJV -
    Yep, the moment Moses began to write.

    PS ~ Acts 7:38 - "λογια ζωντα"
    Living Oracles - Living Sayings - Living Words
    Last edited by daqq; June 19th, 2017 at 02:18 PM.

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