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Thread: Direct assault on Satan (Evil's.<(I)> Naughty List)

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    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Paul says plainly to clothe ourselves in Christ is to obey Jesus, to not sin.

    Romans 13:13 Let us behave decently, as in the daytime, not in carousing and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and debauchery, not in dissension and jealousy. 14 Instead, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the desires of the flesh.

    1 Corinthians 6:9 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who submit to or perform homosexual acts,

    Galatians 5:21 and envy; drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

    Jesus warns us many times to not sin.

    Luke 21:34
    But watch yourselves, or your hearts will be weighed down by dissipation, drunkenness, and the worries of life--and that day will spring upon you suddenly like a snare.

    Peter teaches it too.

    1 Peter 4:3
    For you have spent enough time in the past carrying out the same desires as the pagans: living in debauchery, lust, drunkenness, orgies, carousing, and detestable idolatry.

    2 Peter 2:13
    The harm they will suffer is the wages of their wickedness. They consider it a pleasure to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their deception as they feast with you.

    How does anyone get that obeying Jesus by abstaining from sin does not have to do with life and Spirit?

    John 6:63 The words I have spoken to you--they are full of the Spirit and life.
    There is only ONE that pleases GOD! It ain't us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Paul says plainly to clothe ourselves in Christ is to obey Jesus, to not sin.

    Romans 13:13 Let us behave decently, as in the daytime, not in carousing and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and debauchery, not in dissension and jealousy. 14 Instead, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the desires of the flesh.

    1 Corinthians 6:9 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who submit to or perform homosexual acts,

    Galatians 5:21 and envy; drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

    Jesus warns us many times to not sin.

    Luke 21:34
    But watch yourselves, or your hearts will be weighed down by dissipation, drunkenness, and the worries of life--and that day will spring upon you suddenly like a snare.

    Peter teaches it too.

    1 Peter 4:3
    For you have spent enough time in the past carrying out the same desires as the pagans: living in debauchery, lust, drunkenness, orgies, carousing, and detestable idolatry.

    2 Peter 2:13
    The harm they will suffer is the wages of their wickedness. They consider it a pleasure to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their deception as they feast with you.

    How does anyone get that obeying Jesus by abstaining from sin does not have to do with life and Spirit?

    John 6:63 The words I have spoken to you--they are full of the Spirit and life.
    I challenge you to parallel your romans verse with Matthew 23

    Those cloths are definitely not your flesh

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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil.Eye.<(I)> View Post
    There is only ONE that pleases GOD! It ain't us.
    If you do not please God, then you are sinning and probably not saved.

    Ephesians 5:10 and find out what pleases the Lord.


    Did you read that?

    You speak against the Word of God.

    Why don't you repent?
    Oh how I love the Word of God!

    Do not just read the word do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil.Eye.<(I)> View Post
    There is only ONE that pleases GOD! It ain't us.
    Colossians 1:10 so that you may walk in a manner worthy of the Lord and may please Him in every way: bearing fruit in every good work, growing in the knowledge of God,

    Now that you know we are to please God, why don't you do right and repent for going against the Word of God when you said we cannot please Him?
    Oh how I love the Word of God!

    Do not just read the word do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil.Eye.<(I)> View Post
    I challenge you to parallel your romans verse with Matthew 23

    Those cloths are definitely not your flesh
    Where do you ever get that Matthew 23 speaks of our not having to obey?

    Jesus calls the Pharisees hypocrites because they do not obey, yet they preach obedience.

    Matthew 23:3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.
    Oh how I love the Word of God!

    Do not just read the word do it.

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    Eclectic Theosophist freelight's Avatar
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    Red face Faith inspires ACTION.......

    Quote Originally Posted by Epoisses View Post

    Your obedience is unacceptable. Only the wedding garment is accepted by God.

    Ok,
    let me bring some new perspective or thoughts on the subject of 'obedience'. (I think some take this word offensively like there is a task master forcing someone to obey, etc. - perhaps we can use other terms, but the concept or principle still holds which we will research below).

    Both are essential (obeying God and the wedding garment) Doesn't God desire you to OBEY His voice? You prefer disobedience? seriously. - - seems people here are confusing or convoluting matters with faith and works. - If you love God you will be obeying his Spirit, DOING his will, - it boggles me that anyone is having a problem with that? Something is wrong, if one is so against any concept of 'works'. Its a fact that all are judged according to their works. Yes, of course faith is essential for salvation, its the seed, the germ that grows within and then manifests as fulfilling the law, - this faith will be evident by our DOING of God's will, OBEYING God's voice. Are some people really having a hard time accepting this? Something is wrong if someone has a problem this. This is basic truth for any traditional orthodox Jew...or even liberal spiritualists...if you love God, you will be SERVING him with your whole heart.

    A tree is known by its fruit. Therefore the prophets say "do works that prove you have truly repented". The prophetic call continues to be the same, "Put away your wicked deeds, Do what is right". There is no substitute for obeying God. Not even blood sacrifice or any kind of ritual sacrifice is a substitute for YOU actually REPENTING and returning to God and DOING his will.

    So, with the grace afforded you, and the measure of faith granted, you surely can obey the Spirit of God, and DO God's will. - so naturally,...if you love God you will by the empowering of his Spirit, DO his will, serve him with your whole heart, mind, strength, will, etc. I'm baffled why this is puzzling for anyone, even a half backed bible student or scholar knows this much. Seriously folks. You cant just 'name and claim it' here,...you have to live out your faith, and serve God. This is why James says, your actions/behavior will show if you have genuine faith. Otherwise, its dead and is of no use.

    Its about your heart-surrender, which fosters your faith producing right behavior, a life of genuine repentance, - that repentance will prove itself by a changed life, one that honors God, where the Spirit of God is leading and guiding your ACTIONS. You are obeying the leading of the Holy Spirit, moment to moment. The word 'obedience' may seem a little strong for some libertarians? perhaps that is their own ego and flesh resisting this concept? Okay,...then lets just call it 'following the Spirit's guidance, being LED by the Spirit, walking in the Spirit' OR 'obeying the voice of God'. - its all the same thing, use whatever words you like,..every prophet or apostle of God and His Messiah teach us the same thing. Repent, and Do the will of the LORD. Is this a foreign concept to some of you? I just don't get all this confusion and equivocation over this, but we can probably grant a lot of it to how people are interpreting Paul's writings as he contorts some things.

    In closing, my observations are that some are straining at gnats and swallowing camels, but they just don't know how bloated they. - we all agree faith is essential, but we must also agree that real faith that does not produce works, is DEAD. We are justified and saved by FAITH, and this faith will inspire us to DO God's will, to OBEY God. Im still baffled over anyone NOT seeing this basic truth. Call me old-fashioned on the fundamentals, even though I'm very liberal and eclectic in other areas...but this is alarming.

    You cant just preach 'faith' ALONE....some kind of 'easy believism'......NO prophets ever did. You begin there, of course. But carrying on.....repentance demands a changed mind, changed life, changed orientation which naturally produces reformed life. A living FAITH will be dynamic, actively DEMONSTRATING itself thru ACTION, right doing, righteous behavior, all the fruit of a Spirit-led life. A life led by the Spirit, produces all the good fruit of the Spirit, and this life LED by LOVE, has no law against it, for when one is walking in faith, by love, in the Spirit....they cannot sin! 'Sin' is but the transgression of the law, any falling short of or missing the mark of love. If you walk in the Spirit, you will not follow or fulfill the desires of the flesh. In the Spirit of the Lord there is no sin or imperfection...only liberty to live by the Spirit. I'm still baffled on this particular point. I may have to take a few spiritual Tylenols here

    Ok, enough on this....I've got some other threads to attend to, for those interested do check them out. God bless!

    "If you love me, you will keep my instructions" - Jesus

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    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Where do you ever get that Matthew 23 speaks of our not having to obey?

    Jesus calls the Pharisees hypocrites because they do not obey, yet they preach obedience.

    Matthew 23:3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.
    There's only ONE WAY to have righteousness that surpasses the Pharisees... You are missing the context of Matthew 23 ... Perhaps it is too close to a certain mark.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil.Eye.<(I)> View Post
    There's only ONE WAY to have righteousness that surpasses the Pharisees... You are missing the context of Matthew 23 ... Perhaps it is too close to a certain mark.
    We have to surpass the righteousness of the Pharisees by obeying.
    Oh how I love the Word of God!

    Do not just read the word do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil.Eye.<(I)> View Post
    Calvinist's and Seventh Day Adventists are great at overcomplicating this matter! Why? Because it leads back to dependence on a teaching, instead of dependency on Jesus! Period! This results in people claiming to know everything and teach division of God to the point that... WORKS of the flesh become an issue again! People depersonalize God and relate to the three that testify of the ONE (Deuteronomy 6:4) in a way that removes the Friendship with God that God desires us to have with Him. If you don't think of yourself as a kid and Jesus (YHWH) playing hot wheels, or whatever you liked to do as a kid, with you... you're missing the whole... Amazing point that makes our faith unique!

    In this light... people see themselves as Gnostic God's with Secret information that saves them and they put the focus back on themselves, their works or other mere mortals! Cha Ching! Isaiah 14:14
    For me, I'm not a Calvinist who thinks you must be Calvinist to be saved. Rather, before I was a Calvinist, I didn't realize how much was God, and how much He had done. In my little (not disparaging anyone else's) Arminian world, I asked the Lord Jesus to save me and 'accepted Him in my heart." Years of Bible reading, I've come to think of my Salvation as more "His Salvation." Thus, I've become Calvinistic in my understanding of scriptures but I still remember all the 'what I did and believed' moments and actions. I've just come to think of my Salvation as all about Him more than me. I 'think' we Calvinists sometimes forget that He reaches us all where we are at. I'm convinced, as well as a good number of Calvinists with me, that "All who call on the name of the Lord" are saved. We just disagree about what 'made you call' in the first place. Such imho, never counteracts the act. All means all here. We might discuss what calling on Him means, but all who trust in Him will not be ashamed, as scripture tells us.

    Quote Originally Posted by Evil.Eye.<(I)> View Post
    4) Works based doctrine... the religious folks love to teach others to be as "Righteous as Jesus" in their own disgusting, rotting corpses of death. It's worse when they say they've accomplished this matter and go straight to Isaiah 14:14 ! They say to be like them, being like Jesus. News flash... That's saying you are "like God"... Instant Isaiah 14:14
    Spoiler
    If you haven't seen a drug addicted Biker gang break down into tears when the Charlie Daniels Band plays "Amazing Grace"... you've missed the gospel!
    1) I own one of Charlie Daniel's records. 2) Calvinism is Sola Gratia (saved by grace alone). We tend to say "we are saved by grace alone, but grace that saves is not alone (it does some things in us, through us, and for us). Perhaps another way to say this would be: We do not believe works is a means of or for salvation, but rather that it is the product of Christ's saving work in us (Ephesians 2:8-10).
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil.Eye.<(I)> View Post
    5) All doctrine that contests the idea that God is Absolute Love... If you just read that fraction of a sentance and don't get it. Read 1 John 4:8... followed by 1 Corinthians 12:31 - 1 Corinthians 13:13. If anyone questions the message of every word about mercy and Love found in every word of John's book and epistles... they are claiming to be "WISER THAN GOD". That's one up on Satan! In Isaiah 14:14... he just wants to "Be like the Most High". People who try to be "Wiser than God" are literally trying to "Be Wiser than the Most High". Good luck with that!
    I think I've touched on this in two of your other threads. In one, I listed verses describing teaching as a spiritual gift yet agreed with you that there is no teacher but Christ in being able to Lord over. There is no mediator between God and men but Christ. Rather, I'd like to think of us as spiritual help-meets, in the same vein that Paul tells us to follow him as he follows Christ in Philippians. If we get too big for our britches, James reminds and warns us that our judgment is to be stiffer than those who do not teach. It is a fair and appropriate concern to bring to light.
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil.Eye.<(I)> View Post
    And......

    Lastly.......

    1) Why Spiritual Israel Doctrine? Because it's at the heart of every one of the Demon Doctrines I just listed!

    It literally makes people Anti-Zionist that are supposedly serving the originator of Zion and Zionism. This again sets people up for an end time shocker! Oh... you thought God had forgotten the Jews and were condemning God's promises to them? Ever fantasize about getting into a war against GOD? Great news!!! You'll get your opportunity to attempt to go toe to toe with God Himself! Good Luck with that. Isaiah 14:14 is a really handy verse to remind people how stupid we all can get sometimes.


    # Dropping the Mic
    I'll let someone else field this. I haven't been a Calvinist long enough to be able to field this particular meaningfully.
    My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
    Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
    Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
    Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
    No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
    Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

    Is Calvinism okay? Yep

    Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

    1Co 13:11 ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

    Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

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  13. #595
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    Quote Originally Posted by freelight View Post

    Ok,
    let me bring some new perspective or thoughts on the subject of 'obedience'. (I think some take this word offensively like there is a task master forcing someone to obey, etc. - perhaps we can use other terms, but the concept or principle still holds which we will research below).

    Both are essential (obeying God and the wedding garment) Doesn't God desire you to OBEY His voice? You prefer disobedience? seriously. - - seems people here are confusing or convoluting matters with faith and works. - If you love God you will be obeying his Spirit, DOING his will, - it boggles me that anyone is having a problem with that? Something is wrong, if one is so against any concept of 'works'. Its a fact that all are judged according to their works. Yes, of course faith is essential for salvation, its the seed, the germ that grows within and then manifests as fulfilling the law, - this faith will be evident by our DOING of God's will, OBEYING God's voice. Are some people really having a hard time accepting this? Something is wrong if someone has a problem this. This is basic truth for any traditional orthodox Jew...or even liberal spiritualists...if you love God, you will be SERVING him with your whole heart.

    A tree is known by its fruit. Therefore the prophets say "do works that prove you have truly repented". The prophetic call continues to be the same, "Put away your wicked deeds, Do what is right". There is no substitute for obeying God. Not even blood sacrifice or any kind of ritual sacrifice is a substitute for YOU actually REPENTING and returning to God and DOING his will.

    So, with the grace afforded you, and the measure of faith granted, you surely can obey the Spirit of God, and DO God's will. - so naturally,...if you love God you will by the empowering of his Spirit, DO his will, serve him with your whole heart, mind, strength, will, etc. I'm baffled why this is puzzling for anyone, even a half backed bible student or scholar knows this much. Seriously folks. You cant just 'name and claim it' here,...you have to live out your faith, and serve God. This is why James says, your actions/behavior will show if you have genuine faith. Otherwise, its dead and is of no use.

    Its about your heart-surrender, which fosters your faith producing right behavior, a life of genuine repentance, - that repentance will prove itself by a changed life, one that honors God, where the Spirit of God is leading and guiding your ACTIONS. You are obeying the leading of the Holy Spirit, moment to moment. The word 'obedience' may seem a little strong for some libertarians? perhaps that is their own ego and flesh resisting this concept? Okay,...then lets just call it 'following the Spirit's guidance, being LED by the Spirit, walking in the Spirit' OR 'obeying the voice of God'. - its all the same thing, use whatever words you like,..every prophet or apostle of God and His Messiah teach us the same thing. Repent, and Do the will of the LORD. Is this a foreign concept to some of you? I just don't get all this confusion and equivocation over this, but we can probably grant a lot of it to how people are interpreting Paul's writings as he contorts some things.

    In closing, my observations are that some are straining at gnats and swallowing camels, but they just don't know how bloated they. - we all agree faith is essential, but we must also agree that real faith that does not produce works, is DEAD. We are justified and saved by FAITH, and this faith will inspire us to DO God's will, to OBEY God. Im still baffled over anyone NOT seeing this basic truth. Call me old-fashioned on the fundamentals, even though I'm very liberal and eclectic in other areas...but this is alarming.

    You cant just preach 'faith' ALONE....some kind of 'easy believism'......NO prophets ever did. You begin there, of course. But carrying on.....repentance demands a changed mind, changed life, changed orientation which naturally produces reformed life. A living FAITH will be dynamic, actively DEMONSTRATING itself thru ACTION, right doing, righteous behavior, all the fruit of a Spirit-led life. A life led by the Spirit, produces all the good fruit of the Spirit, and this life LED by LOVE, has no law against it, for when one is walking in faith, by love, in the Spirit....they cannot sin! 'Sin' is but the transgression of the law, any falling short of or missing the mark of love. If you walk in the Spirit, you will not follow or fulfill the desires of the flesh. In the Spirit of the Lord there is no sin or imperfection...only liberty to live by the Spirit. I'm still baffled on this particular point. I may have to take a few spiritual Tylenols here

    Ok, enough on this....I've got some other threads to attend to, for those interested do check them out. God bless!

    "If you love me, you will keep my instructions" - Jesus
    Freelight what a great post that's exactly how I feel, I know I talk about obeying God and doing his will, but I don't understand why anyone who belongs to him wouldn't want to? I love him and I want to please him, and I know that if I do his will and listen to the Spirit and listen when my conscience is pricked then I am doing Gods will. And he's cleansing my heart, how can I be cleansed if I don't do Gods will and carry on living in my flesh? I can't! I don't understand how people can't see that if our hearts aren't being cleansed and we don't turn from the lusts of our flesh, that others can't see Christ through us. How can they if we are loving ourselves first and living our life to please ourselves and not living by the will of God?

    Saying " I only have to believe" isn't enough, we can see this right through the Bible, when I've quoted James on saying faith without works is dead or I'll show your my faith by my works, I get others saying" that was for the Jews" why? Why would that only be for the Jews? James is speaking the truth for all of us, if we truly love God then we should want to please him, we will want to do his will, others will see our faith by our works and we will be producing the fruits of the Spirit and not showing the works of the flesh.

    We get accused of being self righteous when saying that we should live by the will of God and that we are following a false works based gospel. How can this be, when Jesus taught that we are workers of iniquity if we don't do Gods will? And that his brothers sisters and mother are all those who do the will of his father? It seems to me that Jesus thought that it is very important to do the will of God, and as you say if we truly love him with all our hearts, we will want to please him and do his will.

    I want to lay down my life and obey God and do his will because I love him from the depths of my heart and right through me, so much so that I think of him always, and the choices I make in my daily life I do so to try and please God and I turn from the world because I know that it makes me a worse person and I don't want that anymore, I want to please my father in heaven and bring his love to others. And show and tell them what this wonderful gift that I have received feels like. This overwhelming love that fills my soul and I want to share it with others so they can know the true God and his holy son Jesus Christ and feel the peace in the heart that I feel.

    And we can't achieve anything or bring this love of God to anyone, if we don't live by his will! If we truly love him, then we should want to please him and this is what becoming a living sacrifice is. Being willing to die to self to let the Spirit of God live in us so that through us the love of Christ can reconcile others to God.

    Yes I suffer, and yes I'm tempted, and at times I'm even persecuted, I'm tried and tested always and yes my old life is gone, but I'm free, I'm filled with the love of God that not only takes me away from this world, but helps me to overcome it and I'm free from it and all the corruption that it brings with it that takes our hearts away from God. If we let it.

    That's why I say that I'm so grateful that God even looked at me, because I'm free. And I love him so much, that I want to please him and do his will.

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    We do not believe works is a means of or for salvation, but rather that it is the product of Christ's saving work in us (Ephesians 2:8-10).
    Hi Lon

    I like the way you put that, and when I talk about works, this is exactly what I mean. As the Spirit works in us, and changes our hearts, we then carry those works out. As we work for God, we please and glorify God, the works of our flesh glorify and please us.

    If we are born of God and walk in the Spirit, we will want to please and glorify God and do his works which as I have learned contradicts the works of the flesh. So carrying out the works of God done in my heart by the Spirit, glorifies God and brings his love and life to others. And this is what I believe that James means when he says "I'll show you my faith by my works" James isn't talking about doing his works, but rather as God works on his heart, he lives it out, thus we see his faith by his works because he is working to please God and not his flesh.

    When I talk about works, this is what I mean, I am not talking about my works, they wouldn't please God in any way whatsoever.

    If I lived by the works of the flesh and pleasing myself, then I'd be living my old life. My life without knowing God would be loving the world, partying, drinking, loving attention, being vain, building up and wanting the best of everything, putting myself before others and thinking that this life is the be all and end all and we only live once so I'm to live it and having that kind of attitude, I know me, and I know that without God this is what I'd be like, an absolute disgrace to God. That's my works, now God working in me produces the fruits of the Spirit and I carry his works outwardly as he puts a clean heart within me and cleanses me from within daily washing me in pure living water.

    But that is how foolish I was. My mum used to talk to me about God, but I didn't know him, and I still lived my life, but I was always restrained from going too far because of what my mum had instilled in me from a young age. But now that I truly know God from my heart, I want to please him fully and I love feeling him with me and feeling his love in me that warmth and lift that he gives. And I love him so much that the the life I did live means nothing to me anymore. I'm more interested in pleasing my God and father than pleasing myself, and it's the best feeling in the world, nothing in this world, nothing that it has to offer, can replace the love of God, it's priceless, and I'm truly blessed!

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    Eclectic Theosophist freelight's Avatar
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    Post A true Atonement includes repentance and a return to God.......

    Quote Originally Posted by marhig View Post
    Freelight what a great post that's exactly how I feel, I know I talk about obeying God and doing his will, but I don't understand why anyone who belongs to him wouldn't want to? I love him and I want to please him, and I know that if I do his will and listen to the Spirit and listen when my conscience is pricked then I am doing Gods will. And he's cleansing my heart, how can I be cleansed if I don't do Gods will and carry on living in my flesh? I can't! I don't understand how people can't see that if our hearts aren't being cleansed and we don't turn from the lusts of our flesh, that others can't see Christ through us. How can they if we are loving ourselves first and living our life to please ourselves and not living by the will of God?

    Saying " I only have to believe" isn't enough, we can see this right through the Bible, when I've quoted James on saying faith without works is dead or I'll show your my faith by my works, I get others saying" that was for the Jews" why? Why would that only be for the Jews? James is speaking the truth for all of us, if we truly love God then we should want to please him, we will want to do his will, others will see our faith by our works and we will be producing the fruits of the Spirit and not showing the works of the flesh.

    We get accused of being self righteous when saying that we should live by the will of God and that we are following a false works based gospel. How can this be, when Jesus taught that we are workers of iniquity if we don't do Gods will? And that his brothers sisters and mother are all those who do the will of his father? It seems to me that Jesus thought that it is very important to do the will of God, and as you say if we truly love him with all our hearts, we will want to please him and do his will.

    I want to lay down my life and obey God and do his will because I love him from the depths of my heart and right through me, so much so that I think of him always, and the choices I make in my daily life I do so to try and please God and I turn from the world because I know that it makes me a worse person and I don't want that anymore, I want to please my father in heaven and bring his love to others. And show and tell them what this wonderful gift that I have received feels like. This overwhelming love that fills my soul and I want to share it with others so they can know the true God and his holy son Jesus Christ and feel the peace in the heart that I feel.

    And we can't achieve anything or bring this love of God to anyone, if we don't live by his will! If we truly love him, then we should want to please him and this is what becoming a living sacrifice is. Being willing to die to self to let the Spirit of God live in us so that through us the love of Christ can reconcile others to God.

    Yes I suffer, and yes I'm tempted, and at times I'm even persecuted, I'm tried and tested always and yes my old life is gone, but I'm free, I'm filled with the love of God that not only takes me away from this world, but helps me to overcome it and I'm free from it and all the corruption that it brings with it that takes our hearts away from God. If we let it.

    That's why I say that I'm so grateful that God even looked at me, because I'm free. And I love him so much, that I want to please him and do his will.
    You're welcome marhig

    I haven't read one thing that I can recall from your posts that did not have the heart and will of God in it and emenate love for God. You ooze with it! .....a devotion to DO God's will and appreciation of his grace, so I don't agree with anyone who is questioning your devotion or loyalty to the Lord, based on their own theological equivocations and unsound logic. Its baffling but that's the harm of holding to 'dogmas' which confuses other points of sound teaching, and confounds other related concepts and adaptations. Faith without works is dead...that is the truth. I don't get why anyone would be against their faith producing OBEDIENCE to God? -the whole point of repentance and salvation is to RETURN to God. Again, what are we missing here? (and please,...all the verses from Paul on grace wont help here, since the whole of scripture teaches otherwise,....for those sold on 'sola scriptura').

    As to my last post, I've always seen religious living and faith in that way, not only because its in the scriptures, but is logical, rational and rings true to the conscience and reality. What we've shared goes without saying, I'm surprised its contested, - the 'contest' is only based on doctrinal presuppositions, and imposed interpretations, - it will always stand that NOTHING takes the places or can be a substitute for Doing the will of 'God' (love). Nothing can substitute for repentance, it is essential. There is no other way, while you have the response-ability to do so. Individual responsibility for sin and personal repentance as the means to atone for such is upheld in the scriptures. - other props, animal/grain/flour offerings, various temple sacrifices, religious rites were only enacted as helps or symbolic gestures for souls coming to God to effect some kind of 'atonement', BUT these sacrifices only avail IF the worshipper has a true inner transformation, change of heart and mind, REPENTANCE. Otherwise, its just a mechanical act of no significance or value. I cover this on my blood atonement thread.

    All offerings or sacrifice in the New Covenant is 'psychic' and 'spiritual' in nature, since the laws of God are written in the inward man, by the Spirit. The true sacrifices of God are still as revealed in the OT, a broken heart & contrite spirit, the soul being surrendered in true humility, the laying down one's self on the altar of God as it were, the total yielding of the soul to the Spirit. - additionally, flowing from the spirit of worship, are thanksgiving and praise, the fruit of the lips, the lifting up of hands, and other gestures of true worship of the Father in spirit and truth. This is kind of worshippers the Father seeks and is satisfied therein.

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    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    That sounds good to me.

    To be clothed in Jesus it is to obey Jesus.

    Romans 13:13 Let us behave decently, as in the daytime, not in carousing and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and debauchery, not in dissension and jealousy. 14 Instead, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the desires of the flesh.
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil.Eye.<(I)> View Post
    Drunkenness = Old Wine = Law Keeping for Salvation
    Carousing = Seeking to sway people away from dependence on Christ, Alone
    Sexual Immorality = Adultery to our bride groom by adding anything to the Gospel besides Faith in Jesus (God)
    Debauchery = James 2:10 = being guilty of the entire Law by adding any drop of Carnal effort to the gospel
    Dissension = 1 Co. 1:13 = adding anything to the gospel besides utter dependence on Jesus work, alone
    Jealousy = Judging the saved for their peace and freedom in Christ
    Passion of the Flesh = Isaiah 14:14 = to attempt to work for salvation, be like God or add obedience and self justification of works of the flesh to the gospel.

    This is Spiritual... I hope you read it carefully.
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil.Eye.<(I)> View Post
    I challenge you to parallel your romans verse with Matthew 23

    Those cloths are definitely not your flesh
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Where do you ever get that Matthew 23 speaks of our not having to obey?

    Jesus calls the Pharisees hypocrites because they do not obey, yet they preach obedience.

    Matthew 23:3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil.Eye.<(I)> View Post
    There's only ONE WAY to have righteousness that surpasses the Pharisees... You are missing the context of Matthew 23 ... Perhaps it is too close to a certain mark.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    We have to surpass the righteousness of the Pharisees by obeying.
    I will be explaining that this thread is under representation of @Lon for two weeks, as I will be off of ToL for close to two weeks.

    @God's Truth , @marhig , @freelight ...
    This is to the three of you... The word "Obedience" and it's deadly spiritual implications if misused passed TRUE "Repentance" (Circumcision of the HEART) and Belief (Ephesians 2:8f) ... is a spiritual SERPENT!

    Direction and flow of this response...


    (1) Obedience past True (John the Baptist Repentance) and (Faith in Jesus) "Kills"

    (2) What's a Bond Servant and why are they better than slaves, more radical than Pharisees and TOTALLY FREE?

    (3) (Works Addiction) You "show" me your faith and I'll "show" you my "works"

    (4) Who are you to tell me "Not to OBEY past "Circumcision of the Heart" and "Faith"

    (5) Boasting of a fashion and form that rips the mountains of works to shreds! (Pharisee Bashing and "mountain moving")

    ......................


    (1) Obedience past True (John the Baptist Repentance) and (Faith in Jesus) "Kills"


    John the Baptist was a Locust Eating (Symbol of reversing crop destruction), Camel Fir Wearing (Camels symbolize WATER in the Desert), Zealot that Shouted "Repent for the Kingdom is AT HAND"! He made it clear that this must be done to prepare the way for JESUS CHRIST (Messiah/Savior).

    Those words hang in the Spiritual veil to this very day! If you think that Pharisees were biblical slouches and condemn-able sinners... By the Law... you are a FOOL! They were scriptural all stars! They even ate literal portions of scripture as a symbol of their devotion! They memorized the Torah at a very early age! They focused every second of every day on pleasing God in their flesh! They even wore commandments of God on their forehead that they had mastered in their flesh. (phylactery)



    When John the Baptist said REPENT... He meant something totally different, because those "scriptural all-stars of OBEDIENCE in the flesh focus" were declared (Mt. 23:27). Dead! Void of God! Spiritual waist lands!

    So... NO... OBEYING BETTER THAN THE PHARISEES AIN'T THE ANSWER!

    (2) What's a Bond Servant and why are they better than slaves, more radical than Pharisees and TOTALLY FREE?


    The Bible is full of SLAVERY! Yup! The real deal. When a person became a debtor to someone, beyond what they could afford to pay off... they became that persons SLAVE! They were OWNED! They had to OBEY! If the owner wanted a woman for intercourse and she was HIS Debtor... She became what is known as a CONCUBINE (A Devoted to one man, Whore)! If a strapping young lad was SOLD into Slavery... he was worked to near death by the hardest tasks available! Yup!

    Now... If a man was considered to have paid his debt in full, he had a choice. He could simply go about his way. Or, If he liked his master... He could declare that He is Free, but that He loved his master so much, he wanted to be a bond servant! A bond servant was treated like a child of the master. They didn't OBEY. They had a life of their own, but retained residence with the master and helped the master with whatever tasks they could to assist in the master's prosperity.

    The freed slave would be taken to the doorway of the master and an AWL would be driven through the Slaves Ear. The blood of the servant would mark the doorway and a gold ring would be placed in the FREE MANS ear to show that he was indeed FREE! How do I know this? I'll explain in a bit.

    The "woman", on the other hand, could only be freed from a life of being a concubine by being stoned, or declared a wife, until death of her or death of her "husband".

    (3) (Works Addiction) You "show" me your faith and I'll "show" you my "works"

    James 2:14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

    If you think JESUS ain't a big deal... You missed John 5:39f ... Think about it! Jesus just told those theological aces called Pharisees that they didn't need one word of scripture... THEY NEEDED HIM! BOOOOOOOM!!!! Yup... After all... He's (John 6:51)... That's the food and WORKS that James is referring to! And... I'll probably launch an OP on this in the later future! I'm all about CRUSHING the OBEDIENCE FREAKS hopes! Like a Kid with a "magnifying glass", to throw "glorious light" over an "ANT HILL"! After all... I'm a Jesus Freak, not an Obedience Freak! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbB0QrBIs9k) ... I worship the AUTHOR of Those Red Letters (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCrVwNfbxIM) (John 5:39)

    And here's the big reveal... Not only is the Prodigal SON a good parable to squelch CARNAL JUDGMENT... and a picture of a SLAVE to GOD that wanted to humbly become a BOND SERVANT, but inherited ALL that HIS FATHER HAS... (works crowd... we are the PIGS He ate with... LOL and imagine that) BUT... It's most specifically about JESUS! And... Nope... He isn't created, and nope... He isn't apart from God, by any other division than TIME, Dimension, and Marriage to Humanity! He is GOD! But... that's another discussion to be had on the "Exposing the Anti-Christ Spirit of Spiritual Death" thread... which has an excellent OP representative for the next two weeks, as well!

    (4) Who are you to tell me "Not to OBEY past "Circumcision of the Heart" and "Faith"


    My great grand parents were Jews that fled Germany during the Holocaust. They raised my Grandmother Mennonite and hid their Jewish roots, because of the obvious. My mother was born into that history and married a man that became a Semi-Calvinist Minister who served the church for over 40 years. I was raised to learn the Torah as my source of salvation by my mother. My father taught theology, but he "bled grace" and "detested self-righteousness". He raised me to understand all angles of Christian theology. I was never granted the ability to have one theology, but I had to know all major flavors.

    I knew the Torah extremely well by the age of 14 and treated it like it was still in place for my salvation, with the single removal of blood sacrifice. I thanked Jesus for taking away those "extra requirements" (My pets appreciated it too)!

    I lived, breathed and trusted the works of my flesh. I was also steeped in shame and failure, because no matter how hard I tried... I failed. Even with the "assistance" of "The Holy Spirit", I can still remember that I was sunk and felt lost inside! That's enough about me for now! But that's who I am to warn you that depending on your flesh (John 6:29; 63) profits ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!

    I woke up at 5 in the morning, day after day from 13 to 16 and knelt in front of the Bible for "My Daily Bread". Silly me... I thought the WORD was the BIBLE, and read it like it was such!

    (5) Boasting of a fashion and form that rips the mountains of works to shreds! (Pharisee Bashing and "mountain moving")


    Allow me to put you WORK HORSES TO SHAME! What's a post from Evil.Eye.<(I)> without some serious TRASH TALK!



    Allow me to shed light on the context of the words that are about to come! I'm a ZOMBIE! I'm ICE COLD DEAD! Why? I was condemned to death, under the LAW! I am no longer ALIVE. I failed at OBEY, and "Surrendered" to my Sentence! I was burred in a TOMB, and even as I type... I'm deader than Jack Nicholson at the end of "The Shining".



    I am a sinner and I was "Crucified with Christ" (Gal. 2:20) on the Cross at Golgotha!

    So... Now... All that is left is JESUS CHRIST! He ROSE within my HEART! (Romans 8:9 and Philippians 1:19) I'm not ashamed that I'm a sinner any more! (Romans 4:15) I'm not even alive anymore! (Gal. 2:19) i'm condemned and executed! (Luke 23:39 One of the criminals who were hanged there was hurling abuse at Him, saying, “Are You not the Christ? Save Yourself and us!” 40 But the other answered, and rebuking him said, “Do you not even fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation?)

    Did you see me? I was the Co-Defendant of the thief that TOLD JESUS TO SAVE HIMSELF. (Ears that Here?) I was the Sinner that told Jesus that I deserve my sentence and Believe! (Lk. 23:42 “Jesus, remember me when You come in Your kingdom!”) and Jesus said; (Lk. 23:43 "And He said to him, “Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise.”)

    Ahhhhhhhhhh YEAH!!!! I'M FREE TO DO AS I PLEASE! But I seem to be at a strange place! Instead of "proclaiming SELF Righteousness or attending the local drunken orgy"... I keep proclaiming my SAVIOR (Is. 43:11) And Jesus didn't free me and pay my DEBT so I can continue to SIN... (Gal. 2:17)... He paid my debt in full because HE Is GOD and knew (John 2:24) me. He knew that I can't stop SINNING in THE FLESH! (Romans 7:15)

    Jesus told me to CHILL... (Ice cold dead PUN) 2 Co. 12:9 But He said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for My power is perfected in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly in my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest on me."

    Yup... Big shocker... I'm a sinner... but I'm dead and wearing Christ's RIGHTEOUSNESS like a cloak... and thus... I'm (Php. 2:15) "so that you may be blameless and pure, children of God without fault in a crooked and perverse generation, in which you shine as lights in the world"

    So you want some BOASTING?


    @God's Truth ? I'll boast in my FLESH (JESUS CHRIST) (Eph. 6:10-18 and Gal. 3:27).

    I can spin a web of words that capture the human heart and surpass all others! I can walk on water! I saved SINNERS! I am utterly without a single flaw! I loath self righteous Wanna be's (Is. 14:14, Mt. 23:1 - 38 and Mt. 23:5 plus Job 13:16). I came to sinners and was rejected by people who wanted to justify their own flesh, instead of accept my JUSTIFICATION! I AM the only righteous ONE and if anyone tries to come before me with 30 pieces of silver, instead of MY righteousness... I'll send their disgusting, Naked, rotting flesh to be devoured by the BIRDS of the AIR (Rv. 19:17f, 19f)! I and I alone am Righteous, and only those that DIE and accept that they fall short of me will be my SONs and DAUGHTERs!

    I call those who charge OBEDIENCE (Lev. 19:29 and Proverbs 22:14) for my free gift (Eph. 2:8f) WHORES! They are pimped by the accuser and adversary! They are stripped bare of their self righteous disillusions of OBEDIENCE when they fall to their knees before ME! I drove the MONEY CHANGERS out of the TEMPLE and I alone am the MONEY that will satisfy the WAGES OF sin!

    (He and She with EARS hear)

    - A Slain son and pierced eared bond servant, BOASTING IN MY WEAKNESS, And Glorifying HIM ALONE!

    Soooo... @marhig and @God's Truth ... Call me a Demon! Call me what you will, but you can't judge whats dead. Since you both boast of your OBEDIENCE ... IN YOUR OWN FLESH... I can tell you that you are AHEM... Selling something... that is very bad to BUY!

    @freelight ... search your spirit. Tell me I'm wrong! But know that I'll be away for a couple of weeks.

    @Lon ... By Him Alone ... By Grace Alone ... Glory to God Alone ... By Faith Alone ... SCRIPTURE in light of John 5:39 and by (Php. 1:19 and Romans 8:9) ALONE! Thank you for showing me that CHRIST is not always divided by people that carry denominational labels... (1 Co. 1:13) Also a double wink towards the other thread you are being so kind to look after as well.

    Though the HUMBLE get called Demons... They are merely DECAPITATORS OF SERPENTS... Those serpents who perpetuate the LIE of the Serpent.

    (Gn. 3:5 and Is. 14:14)


    @meshak ... Good day to you and your hat.

    ; )
    Last edited by Evil.Eye.<(I)>; March 9th, 2017 at 02:27 PM.

  19. #599
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    Red face Love fulfills all...............

    Quote Originally Posted by Evil.Eye.<(I)> View Post
    Spoiler
    I will be explaining that this thread is under representation of @Lon for two weeks, as I will be off of ToL for close to two weeks.

    @God's Truth , @marhig , @freelight ...
    This is to the three of you... The word "Obedience" and it's deadly spiritual implications if misused passed TRUE "Repentance" (Circumcision of the HEART) and Belief (Ephesians 2:8f) ... is a spiritual SERPENT!

    Direction and flow of this response...


    (1) Obedience past True (John the Baptist Repentance) and (Faith in Jesus) "Kills"

    (2) What's a Bond Servant and why are they better than slaves, more radical than Pharisees and TOTALLY FREE?

    (3) (Works Addiction) You "show" me your faith and I'll "show" you my "works"

    (4) Who are you to tell me "Not to OBEY past "Circumcision of the Heart" and "Faith"

    (5) Boasting of a fashion and form that rips the mountains of works to shreds! (Pharisee Bashing and "mountain moving")

    ......................


    (1) Obedience past True (John the Baptist Repentance) and (Faith in Jesus) "Kills"


    John the Baptist was a Locust Eating (Symbol of reversing crop destruction), Camel Fir Wearing (Camels symbolize WATER in the Desert), Zealot that Shouted "Repent for the Kingdom is AT HAND"! He made it clear that this must be done to prepare the way for JESUS CHRIST (Messiah/Savior).

    Those words hang in the Spiritual veil to this very day! If you think that Pharisees were biblical slouches and condemn-able sinners... By the Law... you are a FOOL! They were scriptural all stars! They even ate literal portions of scripture as a symbol of their devotion! They memorized the Torah at a very early age! They focused every second of every day on pleasing God in their flesh! They even wore commandments of God on their forehead that they had mastered in their flesh. (phylactery)



    When John the Baptist said REPENT... He meant something totally different, because those "scriptural all-stars of OBEDIENCE in the flesh focus" were declared (Mt. 23:27). Dead! Void of God! Spiritual waist lands!

    So... NO... OBEYING BETTER THAN THE PHARISEES AIN'T THE ANSWER!

    (2) What's a Bond Servant and why are they better than slaves, more radical than Pharisees and TOTALLY FREE?


    The Bible is full of SLAVERY! Yup! The real deal. When a person became a debtor to someone, beyond what they could afford to pay off... they became that persons SLAVE! They were OWNED! They had to OBEY! If the owner wanted a woman for intercourse and she was HIS Debtor... She became what is known as a CONCUBINE (A Devoted to one man, Whore)! If a strapping young lad was SOLD into Slavery... he was worked to near death by the hardest tasks available! Yup!

    Now... If a man was considered to have paid his debt in full, he had a choice. He could simply go about his way. Or, If he liked his master... He could declare that He is Free, but that He loved his master so much, he wanted to be a bond servant! A bond servant was treated like a child of the master. They didn't OBEY. They had a life of their own, but retained residence with the master and helped the master with whatever tasks they could to assist in the master's prosperity.

    The freed slave would be taken to the doorway of the master and an AWL would be driven through the Slaves Ear. The blood of the servant would mark the doorway and a gold ring would be placed in the FREE MANS ear to show that he was indeed FREE! How do I know this? I'll explain in a bit.

    The "woman", on the other hand, could only be freed from a life of being a concubine by being stoned, or declared a wife, until death of her or death of her "husband".

    (3) (Works Addiction) You "show" me your faith and I'll "show" you my "works"

    James 2:14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

    If you think JESUS ain't a big deal... You missed John 5:39f ... Think about it! Jesus just told those theological aces called Pharisees that they didn't need one word of scripture... THEY NEEDED HIM! BOOOOOOOM!!!! Yup... After all... He's (John 6:51)... That's the food and WORKS that James is referring to! And... I'll probably launch an OP on this in the later future! I'm all about CRUSHING the OBEDIENCE FREAKS hopes! Like a Kid with a "magnifying glass", to throw "glorious light" over an "ANT HILL"! After all... I'm a Jesus Freak, not an Obedience Freak! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbB0QrBIs9k) ... I worship the AUTHOR of Those Red Letters (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCrVwNfbxIM) (John 5:39)

    And here's the big reveal... Not only is the Prodigal SON a good parable to squelch CARNAL JUDGMENT... and a picture of a SLAVE to GOD that wanted to humbly become a BOND SERVANT, but inherited ALL that HIS FATHER HAS... (works crowd... we are the PIGS He ate with... LOL and imagine that) BUT... It's most specifically about JESUS! And... Nope... He isn't created, and nope... He isn't apart from God, by any other division than TIME, Dimension, and Marriage to Humanity! He is GOD! But... that's another discussion to be had on the "Exposing the Anti-Christ Spirit of Spiritual Death" thread... which has an excellent OP representative for the next two weeks, as well!

    (4) Who are you to tell me "Not to OBEY past "Circumcision of the Heart" and "Faith"


    My great grand parents were Jews that fled Germany during the Holocaust. They raised my Grandmother Mennonite and hid their Jewish roots, because of the obvious. My mother was born into that history and married a man that became a Semi-Calvinist Minister who served the church for over 40 years. I was raised to learn the Torah as my source of salvation by my mother. My father taught theology, but he "bled grace" and "detested self-righteousness". He raised me to understand all angles of Christian theology. I was never granted the ability to have one theology, but I had to know all major flavors.

    I knew the Torah extremely well by the age of 14 and treated it like it was still in place for my salvation, with the single removal of blood sacrifice. I thanked Jesus for taking away those extra requirements!

    I lived, breathed and trusted the works of my flesh. I was also steeped in shame and failure, because no matter how hard I tried... I failed. Even with the "assistance" of "The Holy Spirit", I know that I was sunk and felt lost inside! That's enough about me for now! But that who I am to warn you that depending on your flesh (John 6:29; 63) profits ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!

    I woke up at 5 in the morning, day after day from 13 to 16 and knelt in front of the Bible for "My Daily Bread". Silly me... I thought the WORD was the BIBLE, and read it like it was such!

    (5) Boasting of a fashion and form that rips the mountains of works to shreds! (Pharisee Bashing and "mountain moving")


    Allow me to put you WORK HORSES TO SHAME! What's a post from Evil.Eye.<(I)> without some serious TRASH TALK!



    Allow me to shed light on the context of the words that are about to come! I'm a ZOMBIE! I'm ICE COLD DEAD! Why? I was condemned to death, under the LAW! I am no longer ALIVE. I failed at OBEY, and "Surrendered" to my Sentence! I was burred in a TOMB, and even as I type... I'm deader than Jack Nicholson at the end of "The Shining".



    I am a sinner and I was "Crucified with Christ" (Gal. 2:20) on the Cross at Golgotha!

    So... Now... All that is left is JESUS CHRIST! He ROSE within my HEART! (Romans 8:9 and Philippians 1:19) I'm not ashamed that I'm a sinner any more! (Romans 4:15) I'm not even alive anymore! (Gal. 2:19) i'm condemned and executed! (Luke 23:39 One of the criminals who were hanged there was hurling abuse at Him, saying, “Are You not the Christ? Save Yourself and us!” 40 But the other answered, and rebuking him said, “Do you not even fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation?)

    Did you see me? I was the Co-Defendant of the thief that TOLD JESUS TO SAVE HIMSELF. (Ears that Here?) I was the Sinner that told Jesus that I deserve my sentence and Believe! (Lk. 23:42 “Jesus, remember me when You come in Your kingdom!”) and Jesus said; (Lk. 23:43 "And He said to him, “Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise.”)

    Ahhhhhhhhhh YEAH!!!! I'M FREE TO DO AS I PLEASE! But I seem to be at a strange place! Instead of "proclaiming SELF Righteousness or attending the local drunken orgy"... I keep proclaiming my SAVIOR (Is. 43:11) And Jesus didn't free me and pay my DEBT so I can continue to SIN... (Gal. 2:17)... He paid my debt in full because HE Is GOD and knew (John 2:24) me. He knew that I can't stop SINNING in THE FLESH! (Romans 7:15)

    Jesus told me to CHILL... (Ice cold dead PUN) 2 Co. 12:9 But He said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for My power is perfected in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly in my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest on me.
    "
    Yup... Big shocker... I'm a sinner... but I'm dead and wearing Christ's RIGHTEOUSNESS like a cloak... and thus... I'm (Php. 2:15) "so that you may be blameless and pure, children of God without fault in a crooked and perverse generation, in which you shine as lights in the world"

    So you want some BOASTING @God's Truth ? I'll boast in my FLESH (JESUS CHRIST) (Eph. 6:10-18 and Gal. 3:27).

    I can spin a web of words that capture the human heart and surpass all others! I can walk on water! I saved SINNERS! I am utterly without a single flaw! I loath self righteous Wanna be's (Is. 14:14, Mt. 23:1 - 38 and Job 3:16). I came to people who wanted to justify their own flesh, instead of accept my JUSTIFICATION! I AM the only righteous ONE and if anyone tries to come before with 30 pieces of silver, instead of MY righteousness... I'll send their disgusting, Naked, rotting flesh to be devoured by the BIRDS of the AIR! I and I alone am Righteous, and only those that DIE and accept that they fall short of me will be my SONs and DAUGHTERs!

    I call those who charge OBEDIENCE (Lev. 19:29 and Proverbs 22:14) for my free gift (Eph. 2:8f) WHORES! They are pimped by the accuser and adversary! They are stripped bare of their self righteous disillusions of OBEDIENCE when they fall to their knees before ME! I drove the MONEY CHANGERS out of the TEMPLE and I alone am the MONEY that will satisfy the WAGES OF sin!

    (He and She with EARS hear)

    - A Slain son and pierced eared bond servant, BOASTING IN MY WEAKNESS, And Glorifying HIM ALONE!

    Soooo... @marhig and @God's Truth ... Call me a Demon! Call me what you will, but you can't judge whats dead. Since you both boast of your OBEDIENCE ... IN YOUR OWN FLESH... I can tell you that you are AHEM... Selling something... that is very bad to BUY!

    @freelight ... search your spirit. Tell me I'm wrong! But know that I'll be away for a couple of weeks.

    @Lon ... By Him Alone ... By Grace Alone ... Glory to God Alone ... By Faith Alone ... SCRIPTURE in light of John 5:39 and by (Php. 1:19 and Romans 8:9) ALONE! Thank you for showing me that CHRIST is not always divided by people that carry denominational labels... (1 Co. 1:13) Also a double wink towards the other thread you are being so kind to look after as well.

    Though the HUMBLE get called Demons... They are merely DECAPITATORS OF SERPENTS THAT perpetuate the LIE of the Serpent.

    (Gn. 3:5 and Is. 14:14)



    Enjoy your vacation EE

    In God, we have mutual respect, in friendship as well, and can keep that in mind, as we share differing and various points of theology, doctrine and philosophical principles. With that in mind,...a few more thoughts -

    My essential points shared previously still holds, it was a simple rational logical observation, that if one loves God, they will naturally obey him. Is the word 'obey' or 'obedience' that intimidating? A lot may be language issues. As I shared perhaps wording it as 'Following the leading of his Spirit, walking in the Spirit, Doing His will' is a little less 'forceful'? When you are led by love, led by the Spirit, its not a work of the 'flesh', neither does any intention or desire for personal boasting come into view! Its a natural spontaneous FLOW. It seems that your confusing Doing the will of God with bondage? Far from it,...for when you obey the Spirit's voice, his leadings...you are within the sphere of the 'law of liberty', which is the freedom that is yours in Christ, to do his good pleasure, His grace is empowering you.

    I've shared from this simple, fairly uncomplicated view,...that loving God attunes you fully to express his divine nature, by the love of God in you...naturally. When you are filled with his Spirit, you emenate the fruit of that divine nature (you will be like a tree producing fruit), and there can be no sin in that love. Love is the fulfilling of the law. There is no bondage here, no conflict,...just being free in Christ, free to love, free to serve, there is no imposing law here, no worry or concern for any law, since you are motivated by the law of love only....it fulfills all. When you are filled with God, led by the Spirit of Christ,...you naturally do the works of Christ.

    I'm not getting all the complications or resistance against this simple understanding of how God's Spirit works, unless you are working thru some underlying theological "issues" that you have some conflict over, or certain unresolved 'tensions' therein - just an observation,...I share from my own experience of special times when filled with the fullness of God,...where you are filled with so much of the Spirit, you radiate God! - in that 'God-consciousness',....there is only liberty to do as God does, your thoughts and actions are God-directed. Your being is inspired by God, in all phases, stillness and activity, as God leads. God moves you within his divine momentum. Any action or good deeds are a natural product or consequence of your unity with Him....you cannot help but act when the Spirit directs. I'm still not understanding what is wrong with this simple most logical observation. I must admit its baffling. The Spirit of God can only inspire you towards being FREE to function in a manner wholly in harmony with the divine will and love that governs His kingdom. Again,...I'm at a loss of words but will leave it here, and let whatever is true be true.

    In Sincerity,

    Namsaste!

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    Quote Originally Posted by freelight View Post

    Ok,
    let me bring some new perspective or thoughts on the subject of 'obedience'. (I think some take this word offensively like there is a task master forcing someone to obey, etc. - perhaps we can use other terms, but the concept or principle still holds which we will research below).

    Both are essential (obeying God and the wedding garment) Doesn't God desire you to OBEY His voice? You prefer disobedience? seriously. - - seems people here are confusing or convoluting matters with faith and works. - If you love God you will be obeying his Spirit, DOING his will, - it boggles me that anyone is having a problem with that? Something is wrong, if one is so against any concept of 'works'. Its a fact that all are judged according to their works. Yes, of course faith is essential for salvation, its the seed, the germ that grows within and then manifests as fulfilling the law, - this faith will be evident by our DOING of God's will, OBEYING God's voice. Are some people really having a hard time accepting this? Something is wrong if someone has a problem this. This is basic truth for any traditional orthodox Jew...or even liberal spiritualists...if you love God, you will be SERVING him with your whole heart.

    A tree is known by its fruit. Therefore the prophets say "do works that prove you have truly repented". The prophetic call continues to be the same, "Put away your wicked deeds, Do what is right". There is no substitute for obeying God. Not even blood sacrifice or any kind of ritual sacrifice is a substitute for YOU actually REPENTING and returning to God and DOING his will.

    So, with the grace afforded you, and the measure of faith granted, you surely can obey the Spirit of God, and DO God's will. - so naturally,...if you love God you will by the empowering of his Spirit, DO his will, serve him with your whole heart, mind, strength, will, etc. I'm baffled why this is puzzling for anyone, even a half backed bible student or scholar knows this much. Seriously folks. You cant just 'name and claim it' here,...you have to live out your faith, and serve God. This is why James says, your actions/behavior will show if you have genuine faith. Otherwise, its dead and is of no use.

    Its about your heart-surrender, which fosters your faith producing right behavior, a life of genuine repentance, - that repentance will prove itself by a changed life, one that honors God, where the Spirit of God is leading and guiding your ACTIONS. You are obeying the leading of the Holy Spirit, moment to moment. The word 'obedience' may seem a little strong for some libertarians? perhaps that is their own ego and flesh resisting this concept? Okay,...then lets just call it 'following the Spirit's guidance, being LED by the Spirit, walking in the Spirit' OR 'obeying the voice of God'. - its all the same thing, use whatever words you like,..every prophet or apostle of God and His Messiah teach us the same thing. Repent, and Do the will of the LORD. Is this a foreign concept to some of you? I just don't get all this confusion and equivocation over this, but we can probably grant a lot of it to how people are interpreting Paul's writings as he contorts some things.

    In closing, my observations are that some are straining at gnats and swallowing camels, but they just don't know how bloated they. - we all agree faith is essential, but we must also agree that real faith that does not produce works, is DEAD. We are justified and saved by FAITH, and this faith will inspire us to DO God's will, to OBEY God. Im still baffled over anyone NOT seeing this basic truth. Call me old-fashioned on the fundamentals, even though I'm very liberal and eclectic in other areas...but this is alarming.

    You cant just preach 'faith' ALONE....some kind of 'easy believism'......NO prophets ever did. You begin there, of course. But carrying on.....repentance demands a changed mind, changed life, changed orientation which naturally produces reformed life. A living FAITH will be dynamic, actively DEMONSTRATING itself thru ACTION, right doing, righteous behavior, all the fruit of a Spirit-led life. A life led by the Spirit, produces all the good fruit of the Spirit, and this life LED by LOVE, has no law against it, for when one is walking in faith, by love, in the Spirit....they cannot sin! 'Sin' is but the transgression of the law, any falling short of or missing the mark of love. If you walk in the Spirit, you will not follow or fulfill the desires of the flesh. In the Spirit of the Lord there is no sin or imperfection...only liberty to live by the Spirit. I'm still baffled on this particular point. I may have to take a few spiritual Tylenols here

    Ok, enough on this....I've got some other threads to attend to, for those interested do check them out. God bless!

    "If you love me, you will keep my instructions" - Jesus
    This is a great post but teaching faith alone does not mean the believer produces no works at all. It simply means that I trust that Jesus thru the Spirit will produce his works in and thru me. Faith alone is the most important of all Christian doctrines and should never be confused with 'easy believism'.

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