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Thread: Black lives matter: heroes, victims, and answer to the BLM

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    Black lives matter: heroes, victims, and answer to the BLM

    For years now the #blacklivesmatter organization has trotted out "#heroes" and "#victims"as examples of #police #brutality against black people. But is their narrative #trustworthy and #true? Are the circumstances surrounding these individuals evidence to make them into heroes or just plain thugs?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post
    From a friend of mine elsewhere on the topic of PC speech and whether, as another friend suggested, it was a call for censorship:

    "It's not the words that are politically incorrect [that is the problem] it's the implied meaning they are given when used in a certain context. For example, if someone says, "Black lives matter," and another person responds with, "All lives matter," they are using that phrase to diminish the first statement [and not to uplift the larger group]. It's not calling for censorship, it's calling for decency." John Michael Daw
    True, but... It also is stated specifically against cops AND some of it has caused a backlash against them in lost lives. Words do things. As much as I believe Black lives matter, I truly believe that Blue lives matter (and white for that matter).

    While I sympathize.... the 'way' rather than the actual message was the problem behind this particular sentiment. In addition, there were a couple of other shootings by police in mistaken identity such that 'white lives matter too' is appropriate. In among the problem shootings, as this OP states, there were some lives that mattered, but were hazardously placed in harm's way by bad (illegal) choices.

    I believe we've fostered a 'military' mindset in the police force in recent years. This in itself creates problems where 'protect and serve,' I think did a better job.

    Inherently, anything that singles us out, however, can and does more often 'separate' and cause harder feelings. We've talked about this before. I've talked with 3 people of color (all kinds, not white) this week. All of them expressed a problem in the South so I realize we have separate realities. The black man next door to my mom was talking about the 'color' walls as nonexistent with my mother.

    I've grown up trying to be colorblind so "BLM" is a bit against that attempt and actually causes a different kind of problem. I YET think 'colorblind' is the answer and that we proceed defending unjust causes case by case.

    I watched a PBS show Finding My Roots and was frustrated that people were dragged into 'slavery' history of their family members and then asked "How does that make you feel?" Some of this goes beyond 'what is hurting you' and goes into 'what you should be politically outraged about.'
    My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
    Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
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    Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
    No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
    Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

    Is Calvinism okay? Yep

    Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

    1Co 13:11 ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

    Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lon View Post
    True, but... It also is stated specifically against cops
    No, it's a cry over the treatment of blacks by too many who are charged with the preservation of the right.

    AND some of it has caused a backlash against them in lost lives. Words do things. As much as I believe Black lives matter, I truly believe that Blue lives matter (and white for that matter).
    Black is a race. Blue is an occupation. You can take off a uniform, you live with your race.

    While I sympathize.... the 'way' rather than the actual message was the problem behind this particular sentiment. In addition, there were a couple of other shootings by police in mistaken identity such that 'white lives matter too' is appropriate.
    You don't have to say white lives matter because it's a given to the dominant, white culture. It's like asking why there isn't a white version of BET. There is, it's largely called television.

    In among the problem shootings, as this OP states, there were some lives that mattered, but were hazardously placed in harm's way by bad (illegal) choices.

    I believe we've fostered a 'military' mindset in the police force in recent years. This in itself creates problems where 'protect and serve,' I think did a better job.
    The history of police interactions with black Americans doesn't speak highly for either justice or the police, but the conversation that's happening and the elevation of minorities to key positions in more and more police forces should be helpful.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post
    No, it's a cry over the treatment of blacks by too many who are charged with the preservation of the right.


    Black is a race. Blue is an occupation. You can take off a uniform, you live with your race.
    Not if you die in it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post
    You don't have to say white lives matter because it's a given to the dominant, white culture. It's like asking why there isn't a white version of BET. There is, it's largely called television.
    I'd brought that up in a different thread, as I remember. I didn't ask why we didn't have white television, but was saying that 'if' one group can have an all black station, there shouldn't be a problem with an all-white one either. We aren't as colorblind when I have to say white or black in conversation. Having had this conversation with you a few times now, I'm convinced we treat 'black' better in the NW. I also have a mother who I believe is truly colorblind. We had friends of all colors growing up.


    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post
    The history of police interactions with black Americans doesn't speak highly for either justice or the police, but the conversation that's happening and the elevation of minorities to key positions in more and more police forces should be helpful.
    I very much wanted Dr. Ben Carson in office, not because of his color, but because he's a decent intelligent, capable man.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Michael Daw View Post

    "It's not the words that are politically incorrect [that is the problem] it's the implied meaning they are given when used in a certain context. For example, if someone says, "Black lives matter," and another person responds with, "All lives matter," they are using that phrase to diminish the first statement [and not to uplift the larger group]. It's not calling for censorship, it's calling for decency." John Michael Daw
    To bring to attention, well and fine. To permanently separate one people from another? It is simply drawing a line in the sand, either initially, or otherwise keeping the fighting continuing forever (like the PBS link I added in my last post while editing - unfortunately after your response). I'm yet convinced, the answer to all problems isn't political or resolved in a courtroom. Love, truce, peace is the only long-term solution. Black Lives Matter needs to rather become "No more police militant brutality." On the street, we also have to address meeting the needs of the community that has the highest rate of crimes, whatever their color may be and in a manner that isn't lethal.

    My sister-in-law is a cop, I'll have to ask her why bean-bag guns, tasers, and tranquilizer darts (non lethal force) aren't used more often. In Seattle, I remember a disturbed man (not mentioning his color one way or the other), held them at bay with a sword. They used a fire hydrant and waited until he was sufficiently doused and out of breath and peaceably put him in a squad car. Not sure if threads like that on TOL would help, but maybe.... In Him -Lon
    My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
    Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
    Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
    Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
    No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
    Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

    Is Calvinism okay? Yep

    Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

    1Co 13:11 ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

    Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lon View Post

    I very much wanted Dr. Ben Carson in office, not because of his color, but because he's a decent intelligent, capable man.
    i felt the same, as well as being impressed that he was a man of great accomplishments in a field that I respect - certainly more so than those candidates that came from backgrounds of business or government


    and as far as "black lives matter" goes?

    it's a lie

    black lives don't matter squat

    black votes matter


    if black lives mattered, black leaders would react to the epidemic of black on black murders

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    Quote Originally Posted by ok doser View Post
    i felt the same, as well as being impressed that he was a man of great accomplishments in a field that I respect - certainly more so than those candidates that came from backgrounds of business or government


    and as far as "black lives matter" goes?

    it's a lie

    black lives don't matter squat

    black votes matter


    if black lives mattered, black leaders would react to the epidemic of black on black murders
    On a spiritual note, I'd understood Genesis 11:6-9 as God's doing. However several made a good point while I was growing up, that such was specifically against the specific project and the purpose of that project. That said, I'd always wondered why the scattering wouldn't have been enough. Faith/Christ can help us overcome adversity in and for all the right reasons. Race for the unspiritual, will always lead to friction (if I'm reading scripture correctly).

    That is why, in Christ, there is none but one people of God. No male. No female. No Jew. No different color.

    Can politics affect the tension? I'm not convinced. I'm pretty sure race and language (superficial) is what keeps things from going bad to worse, however. God had done this for this reason, in Genesis 11 at the Tower of Babel.

    This separation doesn't apply to Christians but I think despite the good intentions of a good many, it cannot be overcome politically lest as Genesis 11 says "there be nothing they cannot do" when the need of every being on the planet is salvation in Christ alone. I believe it is one way the gospel is able to penetrate and find all peoples.

    I'm all for any plan that ensures that that avenue is open through political means, but I have never really believed in 'neutrality.' We are certainly worse as a nation for caving to atheist demands. Anything done by force cannot change hearts and will thus cause further tension where it seems the dam will break. We are actually seeing that played out in the media, at least as far as my discerning eyes are witnessing, if not in every provable statistic.

    God has clearly given us consequences we can expect with any given action. We should look for those consequences to occur. Some of them are further down the road and so I spend time with my children pointing out what kind of world they are inheriting from us and what types of situations and consequences will need to be addressed.

    I've no friends who have been harmed by the police so I'm a bit out of the loop of conversation other than specifically knowing that any 'push' has a an equal 'back push' by dynamics and thus I'm looking for the shock wave damage of any particular and importantly 'separating' push. To me, that is the biblical indication of Genesis 11 -Lon
    My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
    Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
    Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
    Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
    No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
    Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

    Is Calvinism okay? Yep

    Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

    1Co 13:11 ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

    Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lon View Post
    Not if you die in it?
    But it's a choice to put it on, assuming the risk, understanding it's an inherently dangerous job. Being a minority shouldn't be any of those things, inherently.

    You aren't what you eat, but you're always what you swallow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lon View Post
    True, but... It also is stated specifically against cops AND some of it has caused a backlash against them in lost lives. Words do things. As much as I believe Black lives matter, I truly believe that Blue lives matter (and white for that matter).

    While I sympathize.... the 'way' rather than the actual message was the problem behind this particular sentiment. In addition, there were a couple of other shootings by police in mistaken identity such that 'white lives matter too' is appropriate. In among the problem shootings, as this OP states, there were some lives that mattered, but were hazardously placed in harm's way by bad (illegal) choices.

    I believe we've fostered a 'military' mindset in the police force in recent years. This in itself creates problems where 'protect and serve,' I think did a better job.

    Inherently, anything that singles us out, however, can and does more often 'separate' and cause harder feelings. We've talked about this before. I've talked with 3 people of color (all kinds, not white) this week. All of them expressed a problem in the South so I realize we have separate realities. The black man next door to my mom was talking about the 'color' walls as nonexistent with my mother.

    I've grown up trying to be colorblind so "BLM" is a bit against that attempt and actually causes a different kind of problem. I YET think 'colorblind' is the answer and that we proceed defending unjust causes case by case.

    I watched a PBS show Finding My Roots and was frustrated that people were dragged into 'slavery' history of their family members and then asked "How does that make you feel?" Some of this goes beyond 'what is hurting you' and goes into 'what you should be politically outraged about.'
    as it turns out, in confrontational situations where police use force against civilians, they are more apt to respond harshly when dealing with whites than when dealing with blacks


    but that fact goes contrary to the narrative the race-baiters prefer

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    When They See Us – Netflix's gut-wrenching tale of the Central Park Five

    Ava DuVernay pulls no punches in this urgent, astonishing retelling of an assault case that opened a window on injustice in America



    Tried and waited then got tired, that's about it

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    Quote Originally Posted by jzeidler View Post
    For years now the #blacklivesmatter organization has trotted out "#heroes" and "#victims"as examples of #police #brutality against black people. But is their narrative #trustworthy and #true? Are the circumstances surrounding these individuals evidence to make them into heroes or just plain thugs?

    https://soundcloud.com/freedomsfortr...ers-to-the-blm
    Bill O'Reilly pointed out the statistic many, many times that this false narratives that police go after blacks is hogwash.

    Furthermore, BLM preaches racism and even preaches shooting police. They are a terrorist organization.

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    Btw, you're responding to a post from two years ago

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    Oops. The thread was on the first page so I assumed it was active, I guess I'll get banned again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post
    But it's a choice to put it on, assuming the risk, understanding it's an inherently dangerous job. Being a minority shouldn't be any of those things, inherently.

    Agree. To be clear black lives matter. It is rather, Black Lives Matter that put these officers dead in backlash. I think at times, in our conversations there is a confusion between what I agree with and what I don't. Usually, the reason for the demonstration I agree with. It is rather the demonstration and the way it plays out that I believe is a pendulum swing. It is the stuff of wars, however large or small and I've always hated war.
    My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
    Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
    Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
    Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
    No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
    Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

    Is Calvinism okay? Yep

    Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

    1Co 13:11 ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

    Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

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    Quote Originally Posted by CatholicCrusader View Post
    Oops. The thread was on the first page so I assumed it was active, I guess I'll get banned again.
    It was hidden in the weeds for a long time.
    My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
    Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
    Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
    Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
    No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
    Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

    Is Calvinism okay? Yep

    Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

    1Co 13:11 ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

    Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

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    Quote Originally Posted by annabenedetti View Post
    When They See Us – Netflix's gut-wrenching tale of the Central Park Five

    Ava DuVernay pulls no punches in this urgent, astonishing retelling of an assault case that opened a window on injustice in America


    They are all millionaires. Hope it helps with their healing. They each want another ten million, not sure if they'll get it.

    It is part of it mattering what blacks go through. Rather it is BLM as an action that has led to the death of officers that is troubling to me.

    2009 before BLM protests. Maurice Clemmons had been in trouble with the law in the South, but he shot and killed four officers in Lakewood, WA who he had never met. It was an attack on just 'police' for being police. I've had a jerk cop or two pull me over (one for not having my lights on at dusk, another for what he called a 'rolling stop' ). I'd never think about attacking another police officer for what a totally different officer had done. It is still my contention that police need to be brought back to 'protect and serving' our society instead of 'warring' on drugs and otherwise taking on military actions.
    My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
    Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
    Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
    Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
    No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
    Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

    Is Calvinism okay? Yep

    Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

    1Co 13:11 ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

    Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

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