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Thread: An Advocation of Government

  1. #31
    Over 5000 post club quip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glassjester View Post
    I'm saying there's been plenty of murderous tyrants throughout history.
    To claim that no monarchy has ever allowed the murder of innocents is just plain false.

    I do agree that the best possible form of government would be a good king. But where can we get one of those? And who's to say the next monarch wouldn't be a jerk? That's the trouble with monarchies.
    Well,I was referring to JR's dangerous bivariate method of culling the wicked from the devout.
    _/\_

    Christians: "I - a stranger and afraid - in a world I never made.." -- Houseman

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  3. #32
    Silver Member JudgeRightly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glassjester View Post
    I'm saying there's been plenty of murderous tyrants throughout history.
    To claim that no monarchy has ever allowed the murder of innocents is just plain false.
    Good point. You're right. I should not have made that statement.

    I do agree that the best possible form of government would be a good king. But where can we get one of those? And who's to say the next monarch wouldn't be a jerk? That's the trouble with monarchies.
    Have you read Bob Enyart's "The First Five Days"? If not, I highly recommend it.
    http://store.kgov.com/the-first-five...-pdf-download/

    Also, I'm currently asking Bob if I can share a proposed Constitution for such a monarchy. It answers how the succession process would work, quite clearly, I might add.

    Basically, the first king upon the inauguration of the Constitution would be selected by lottery, overseen by the Queen, or if none, her eldest daughter, or if none, America's chief military leader. After the King's death, the throne would go to his oldest son.



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  4. #33
    Silver Member JudgeRightly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by quip View Post
    Is there a Christian version of an Ayatollah ..that seems to be the direction you're eluding to?
    No, nor is it what I'm alluding to. The King would just be a king.

    The citizens would have the right to worship whomever they chose.

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    Over 5000 post club quip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    No, nor is it what I'm alluding to. The King would just be a king.

    The citizens would have the right to worship whomever they chose.
    Is that actually the case?

    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    I think it's time we really looked at what kind of government God wants. When we look at the Bible, we see that the only form of government God authorized (in both the Old and New Testament) is a Constitutional Monarchy.
    What if one worships a God not presumed to desire a Constitutional Monarchy nor wrought from the Christian Bible - worst case - someone who refuses to worship at all?

    How will thee fare within such a monarchy?
    _/\_

    Christians: "I - a stranger and afraid - in a world I never made.." -- Houseman

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    Silver Member JudgeRightly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by quip View Post
    Is that actually the case?



    What if one worships a God not presumed to desire a Constitutional Monarchy nor wrought from the Christian Bible - worst case - someone who refuses to worship at all?

    How will thee fare within such a monarchy?
    They can believe and say what they want, as everyone has the right to free speech. Doesn't mean that they'll get what they want.

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    Over 5000 post club quip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    They can believe and say what they want, as everyone has the right to free speech. Doesn't mean that they'll get what they want.
    Not getting what they want....like the right to worship the god of their choosing?


    The problem is that you presume to know what kind of government God desires, while from there it's not a huge leap in presuming how God's government would function...including but not limited to any rights to believe in a God contrary to the one holding government sway.

    Seems you're fine with the idea of a religious monarchy as long as you're on the strong side of the power divide.

    See any potential problems here?
    _/\_

    Christians: "I - a stranger and afraid - in a world I never made.." -- Houseman

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    Over 4000 post club glassjester's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    Basically, the first king upon the inauguration of the Constitution would be selected by lottery, overseen by the Queen, or if none, her eldest daughter, or if none, America's chief military leader. After the King's death, the throne would go to his oldest son.
    Where and when has that system worked before?

    And how is the virtue of that king in any way guaranteed?
    Or that of the next king, or the next...
    Your "catholic" is showing. - Sozo

  9. #38
    Silver Member JudgeRightly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by quip View Post
    Not getting what they want....like the right to worship the god of their choosing?
    Did I not say they had the freedom to worship? You specified that their god would perhaps not want a monarchy. That is what I was talking about when I said that they wouldn't necessarily get what they wanted. Your straw-man has been burned.

    The problem is that you presume to know what kind of government God desires,
    Deuteronomy 17, verse 14 through the end of the chapter.

    while from there it's not a huge leap in presuming how God's government would function...including but not limited to any rights to believe in a God contrary to the one holding government sway.
    The freedom to worship God or any god one chooses is a God-given right. It comes from the fact that He's not going to force us to be with Him for all of eternity if we don't want to be with Him.

    Seems you're fine with the idea of a religious monarchy as long as you're on the strong side of the power divide.

    See any potential problems here?
    Once again, the King is just that, a King. Not a religious leader.

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  10. #39
    Silver Member JudgeRightly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glassjester View Post
    Where and when has that system worked before?

    And how is the virtue of that king in any way guaranteed?
    Or that of the next king, or the next...
    Here is the proposed Constitution for America:




    COPYRIGHT Bob Enyart, Kgov.com

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    Last edited by JudgeRightly; January 26th, 2017 at 07:50 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    Did I not say they had the freedom to worship? You specified that their god would perhaps not want a monarchy. That is what I was talking about when I said that they wouldn't necessarily get what they wanted. Your straw-man has been burned.



    Deuteronomy 17, verse 14 through the end of the chapter.



    The freedom to worship God or any god one chooses is a God-given right. It comes from the fact that He's not going to force us to be with Him for all of eternity if we don't want to be with Him.



    Once again, the King is just that, a King. Not a religious leader.

    Sent from my Pixel XL using TheologyOnline mobile app
    "....no other God's before me." Is an unequivocal commandment...are religious monarchies precluded from such commandments?

    I hope you see the obvious ideological conflict that would incur under such a scheme.

    Tell me, would you enjoy living under the rule set by the Koran?
    _/\_

    Christians: "I - a stranger and afraid - in a world I never made.." -- Houseman

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    TOL Legend annabenedetti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    Here is the proposed Constitution for America:





    Is this from The Onion?
    So keep your candles burning
    "Nevertheless, she persisted."
    a.k.a. starchild, starburst, stardust, sweetpea, and dumber than dirt.

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    TOL Legend Arthur Brain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by quip View Post
    "....no other God's before me." Is an unequivocal commandment...are religious monarchies precluded from such commandments?

    I hope you see the obvious ideological conflict that would incur under such a scheme.

    Tell me, would you enjoy living under the rule set by the Koran?
    Eh, some wingnuts think the UK is going to be under sharia law in a decade and the population forced to wear turbans or some such so bear that in mind here...
    Well this is fun isn't it?


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    Silver Member JudgeRightly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by quip View Post
    "....no other God's before me." Is an unequivocal commandment...are religious monarchies precluded from such commandments?
    I've already addressed your "religious monarchy" qualm. I'm not going to address it again.

    As for the First commandment, you need to read the Constitution I provided again. Look for the word "Israel."

    I hope you see the obvious ideological conflict that would incur under such a scheme.

    Tell me, would you enjoy living under the rule set by the Koran?
    The Koran (and therefore, Islam) does not allow for religious freedom, therefore, comparing it to this is comparing apples to bananas. Try again.

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    Silver Member JudgeRightly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by annabenedetti View Post
    Is this from The Onion?
    No, From Pastor Bob Enyart, Kgov.com.

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    [QUOTE=JudgeRightly;4916308]

    The Koran (and therefore, Islam) does not allow for religious freedom, therefore, comparing it to this is comparing apples to bananas. Try again.
    Niether does Christianity.. by way of said commandment.

    The reason it doesn't is by a system of democratic governance. A monarchy i.e. king has no such check on his authority (no pun intended).

    See where I'm going here?
    _/\_

    Christians: "I - a stranger and afraid - in a world I never made.." -- Houseman

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