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Thread: If it was your faith, it gives occasion to boast!

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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    Why are you scared to discuss the OP ? Explain to me my points made and how made by the OP !

    How can you not see that what you ask is what I am already doing?


    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    Eph 2:8-9
    8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
    Quote Originally Posted by daqq View Post
    And you rejected the Testimony of the Messiah when you rejected the above. And you do so because in your doctrine you do not know the difference between "the works of the Law" and "the works of Elohim" as the Master expounds:

    John 6:28-29 ASV
    28 They said therefore unto him, What must we do, that we may work the works of God?
    29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.


    This is the work of Elohim: that you put your faithful trusting belief into the one whom Elohim has sent. That means you must believe and faithfully trust all of his words, the Testimony of the Anointed One found in the Gospel accounts, (and the Apocalypse), which Testimony you have already openly rejected herein above by falsely claiming that by trusting those words I and others are putting our boast in MAN. You are in fact teaching the POLAR OPPOSITE from what the Messiah teaches because of your very own rejection of his words and teachings. The "works of the Law" are the things one can do with the hands, feet, or with the body, but the works of Elohim are done in the heart, mind, and soul. One may sit in silence, while the whole body is at rest and reposed, and yet, at the same time may be doing the works of Elohim. Mortify your "members" which are upon your land, as Paul likewise admonishes you to do: put the deeds of the body to death, put them to "sleep", (in repose, inactive). It is within your own will and power, (in Messiah, by way of his Testimony), to either do so, or to not do so. When you open your mouth to accuse the faithful, who believe the Testimony of the Master, you do worse than those who do evil by way of the body: for what comes forth from your mouth proceeds from your heart, and therefore, as I said, you actually do the polar opposite of what the Master teaches.

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    Quote Originally Posted by daqq View Post
    How can you not see that what you ask is what I am already doing?
    If you are not capable of discussing or not willing to discuss the points made in the OP, why are you even here ? For your own agenda ?
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    If you are not capable of discussing or not willing to discuss the points made in the OP, why are you even here ? For your own agenda ?
    More false accusations even after I just showed you how my posting is related to the OP. If you yourself are not capable of defending your OP then why are *you* even here? Especially when you have openly and blatantly denied the Testimony of the Messiah on the previous page.

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    I must question whether you truly agree with the OP or if you just agree with the doctrine because it is something you have read and heard about.

    Trust/faith is received at regeneration and trust is the result of regeneration. In tandem with regeneration, we are also converted and granted repentance.
    This life-giving experience is an unmistakeable one off event that leads to a lifetime of repentance and sanctification.
    You have in the past mocked this event called regeneration/being born again from above and have refused to give an account of the occurrence that leads to life happening to you.

    Your posts are mostly truth, but the spirit of which you speak is one of deceit and it seems to be of self-delusion.

    In the OP you accuse people of boasting. It must be said that you boast in the doctrine of salvation, but give no proof that it has been applied to you.
    I know Him, correctly, as Messiah whom you call Christ. Yah Shua whom you call Jesus. Messianists who you call Christians.

    "Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm".

    I refuse, point blank, to speak peace to the unregenerate, hypocrites, religious dogma lovers and those that oppose the following statement:
    A regenerate man trusts in the evangelism of salvation conditioned on the atoning blood and imputed justness of Messiah alone.
    If you are fully persuaded, by experience, of this delightful, beautiful and life giving doctrine then I love you as a brother.

    Anyone who thinks that salvation is conditioned on anything a man thinks, does or says is atheist. I cannot and will not speak peace to him or her.

    I don't make statements online that I wouldn't repeat in front of my Maker, my grandmother or a judge.

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    PS I'm not scared to discuss the OP nor you experience of salvation.
    I know Him, correctly, as Messiah whom you call Christ. Yah Shua whom you call Jesus. Messianists who you call Christians.

    "Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm".

    I refuse, point blank, to speak peace to the unregenerate, hypocrites, religious dogma lovers and those that oppose the following statement:
    A regenerate man trusts in the evangelism of salvation conditioned on the atoning blood and imputed justness of Messiah alone.
    If you are fully persuaded, by experience, of this delightful, beautiful and life giving doctrine then I love you as a brother.

    Anyone who thinks that salvation is conditioned on anything a man thinks, does or says is atheist. I cannot and will not speak peace to him or her.

    I don't make statements online that I wouldn't repeat in front of my Maker, my grandmother or a judge.

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    Here is yet another place from the scripture that refutes the OP:

    Mark 9:21-24 ASV
    21 And he asked his father, How long time is it since this hath come unto him? And he said, From a child.
    22 And oft-times it hath cast him both into the fire and into the waters, to destroy him: but if thou canst do anything, have compassion on us, and help us.
    23 And Jesus said unto him, If thou canst! All things are possible to him that believeth.
    24 Straightway the father of the child cried out, and said, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.


    The Greek is emphatic just as it is rendered here. The man says to the Master, essentially, "If anyone can do anything YOU CAN!", and the response from the Master is as if to say, "YOU MEAN, IF YOU CAN!" for all things are possible to the one who believes, (faith, trust, belief that is acted upon), and the answer from the man reveals that this is indeed what is being said, for he says, "I do believe, please help my unbelief!"

    And again:

    Acts 2:37-41
    37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, Brethren, what shall we do?
    38 And Peter said to them, Repent, and be immersed every one of you into the name of Jesus Christ toward the sending away of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit,
    (the Testimony of the Anointed One because his Testimony is Spirit, John 6:63).
    39 For to you is the promise, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call unto Him.
    40 And with many other words he testified, and exhorted them, saying, Save yourselves from this crooked generation!
    41 They then that received his word were immersed:
    (into the Testimony of the Messiah which is his name), and there were added unto them in that day as it were three thousand souls.

    Dear OP, SAVE yourself from the crooked generation which appears to have you trapped in the miry pit of unbelief!

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by daqq View Post
    More false accusations even after I just showed you how my posting is related to the OP. If you yourself are not capable of defending your OP then why are *you* even here? Especially when you have openly and blatantly denied the Testimony of the Messiah on the previous page.
    Why do you keep posting in this thread and avoid the points in the Op ?

    Sent from my 5054N using TheologyOnline mobile app
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    Why do you keep posting in this thread and avoid the points in the Op ?

    Sent from my 5054N using TheologyOnline mobile app
    You poor unbeliever, I guess lying comes with unbelief and breathing out false accusations:

    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    Eph 2:8-9

    8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

    9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.


    Now I know many people are going to try to explain this truth away with an argument from the greek,but it doesn't matter, because this passage which involves Faith in the matter of Salvation is plainly stating that it is not of ourselves. That's true because Salvation is not of ourselves, and Faith in Salvation is accompanied with Salvation, they are not separate. Paul wrote the Thessalonians saying 2 Thessalonians 2:13
    But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:


    Salvation here is " Sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the Truth" What is interesting and important here is that the word belief here isn't the customary verb, but the noun pistis which means:

    conviction of the truth of anything, belief; in the NT of a conviction or belief respecting man's relationship to God and divine things, generally with the included idea of trust and holy fervour born of faith and joined with it
    relating to God
    the conviction that God exists and is the creator and ruler of all things, the provider and bestower of eternal salvation through Christ
    relating to Christ
    a strong and welcome conviction or belief that Jesus is the Messiah, through whom we obtain eternal salvation in the kingdom of God
    the religious beliefs of Christians
    belief with the predominate idea of trust (or confidence) whether in God or in Christ, springing from faith in the same
    fidelity, faithfulness
    the character of one who can be relied on

    And it's translated Faith 239 times.

    We are saved by Sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the Truth, which is Faith. So Faith in Salvation is not our own but by Sanctification of the Spirit.

    If we deny this and say faith was our own faith, we begin boasting about our own work!
    Much of what is in the OP I have been discussing herein. You say that faith cannot be your own faith but the Master tells you plainly that you are incorrect and so do the apostles, including James, who tells you from the Torah that Abraham was justified not only by his works but because of his faithfulness which produced his works. Abraham believed when the Word of the Father came to him in a vision, (Gen 15:1), and that belief was accounted unto him as righteousness, (Gen 15:6), and yet I have quoted the Word to you in this thread and you, the accuser here, openly reject the Word by way of rejecting his Testimony.

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    Quote Originally Posted by daqq View Post
    You poor unbeliever, I guess lying comes with unbelief and breathing out false accusations:



    Much of what is in the OP I have been discussing herein. You say that faith cannot be your own faith but the Master tells you plainly that you are incorrect and so do the apostles, including James, who tells you from the Torah that Abraham was justified not only by his works but because of his faithfulness which produced his works. Abraham believed when the Word of the Father came to him in a vision, (Gen 15:1), and that belief was accounted unto him as righteousness, (Gen 15:6), and yet I have quoted the Word to you in this thread and you, the accuser here, openly reject the Word by way of rejecting his Testimony.
    According to the OP how do i show faith/belief of the Truth comes about ? I showed scripture. Now dont evade the discussion, were discussing what I posted !
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    According to the OP how do i show faith/belief of the Truth comes about ? I showed scripture. Now dont evade the discussion, were discussing what I posted !
    Sorry, I do not often spend much time in supposed Christian forums with unbelievers.
    If I wanted to debate with atheists I would go to an atheist board.
    Have a nice thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by daqq View Post
    Sorry, I do not often spend much time in supposed Christian forums with unbelievers.
    If I wanted to debate with atheists I would go to an atheist board.
    Have a nice thread.
    Like I said already, evasion and Rabbit trail.

    Sent from my 5054N using TheologyOnline mobile app
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    The Righteousness of Faith !

    Rom 4:13

    For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

    Now religious man thinks this " righteousness of Faith" is something he does, an act of his or an obedience, with his mind and or heart wherein it makes them righteous, and that before God.

    However that is not the case, because the righteousness of God wherein men are made made Righteous before Him, its by the Obedience of One Rom 5:19

    For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

    So the Righteousness of God we are made is not the result of our act of believing, our obedience, because then it wouldn't be by the Obedience of One the Redeemer.

    However, those to whom Christ's Obedience has made them Righteous before God, it shall be revealed to them and it will be apprehended by them by God given Faith, because the Gospel Promise is this Rom 1:16-17

    16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
    17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

    Now who are the Just ? Those made Righteous by the Obedience of One Rom 5:19, its the same greek word, that is righteous in Rom 5:19 and Just in Rom 1:17
    !
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Quote Originally Posted by High Cherub V View Post
    "Satan comes forth when we resolve to obey God"

    ~John Calvin
    Rabbit trail !
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    beloved57

    Now religious man thinks this " righteousness of Faith" is something he does, an act of his or an obedience, with his mind and or heart wherein it makes them righteous, and that before God.

    However that is not the case, because the righteousness of God wherein men are made made Righteous before Him, its by the Obedience of One Rom 5:19

    For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

    So the Righteousness of God we are made is not the result of our act of believing, our obedience, because then it wouldn't be by the Obedience of One the Redeemer.


    If a person is relying on his own act of believing in Christ, exercising his own faith of the mind / heart, thinking that's what gets himself Justified, then he's relying on his own act of obedience, and not the blood and obedience of Christ. So consequently, he, himself, is boasting of being his own savior!
    My soul thirsts for God, the God Who Lives Forever:
    when shall I be brought in to see His Face? -Psalm 42:2

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    Do you have Faith in your Faith ?

    Is it your so called faith that makes the difference in you going to heaven or hell? Or does it make a difference if one goes to heaven or hell? Faith is an act of the mind and heart of man, for instance Rom 10:9-10

    9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
    10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

    See that ? with the heart man believeth ! Believing is an act of man here ! The word believeth here is pisteuó and means:

    I believe, have faith in, trust in; pass: I am entrusted with.
    Its from the verb
    pistis which is translated Faith 239 x
    So if we believe ones Salvation was because of our faith, then we have faith in our faith as saviour. It was not Christ that made the Saving difference, but faith.

    However, true Saving Faith looks outside of ourselves and acknowledges that not ones Faith made the difference in being saved and lost but that Christ did, that His Death for me alone made the difference in one being saved and lost !
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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