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Thread: The earth is flat and we never went to the moon

  1. #3601
    TOL Legend Clete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derf View Post
    You've answered a fool according to his folly. Now its time to not answer a fool according to his folly.

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    I have done no such thing! I've done just the precise opposite.

    I have answered questions and rebutted arguments with sound reason and with the patience of Moses. I've not responded to moronic arguments with more moronic arguments. I've not met the fool with foolishness. In fact, I've learned more than I expected to learn from participating in this thread. Arguing a round Earth is not the intuitively easy task one might expect it to be and there are real people out there who actually do think the Earth is flat! Not making an argument in favor of the truth would be the foolishness. But there comes a point where people are no longer debating, no longer trying to decide which is right and which is wrong. It is at that point that you ought not continue making arguments and should start pointing at the real problem, which in this case is indeed foolishness on David's part, which is why he's now on my ignore list.
    "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    There's also no evidence that Dave has done any of the tests or experiments we have given him to do that show exactly how our universe works, on the small scale, that he doesn't need high tech equipment to do, and are relatively cheap or that he can use items lying around his house to do. He has become inherently intellectually dishonest.

    I think now would be a good time for me to go through this thread and list all the unanswered questions and arguments made to him...
    I'm not so sure that we need a list of all of the unanswered questions. If Dave would simply address Knight's question about sun sets, that would be a great place to start.

    The "flat earth model" fails miserably on that one.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

    Has Amos 9:15 been cancelled?

    Eph 2:8-9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: (2:9) Not of works, lest any man should boast.

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  4. #3603
    Over 750 post club Derf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clete View Post
    I have done no such thing! I've done just the precise opposite.

    I have answered questions and rebutted arguments with sound reason and with the patience of Moses. I've not responded to moronic arguments with more moronic arguments. I've not met the fool with foolishness. In fact, I've learned more than I expected to learn from participating in this thread. Arguing a round Earth is not the intuitively easy task one might expect it to be and there are real people out there who actually do think the Earth is flat! Not making an argument in favor of the truth would be the foolishness. But there comes a point where people are no longer debating, no longer trying to decide which is right and which is wrong. It is at that point that you ought not continue making arguments and should start pointing at the real problem, which in this case is indeed foolishness on David's part, which is why he's now on my ignore list.
    I think you've misunderstood my point. What you've done, admirably and (mostly) patiently, is to attempt to correct the folly of a fool, or "answer a fool according to his folly". What you are now doing, admirably, is to cease doing so, or "answer not a fool according to his folly".

    I don't think wise Solomon would ever suggest that we meet a fool with foolishness. I have altered the order from Solomon (my apologies), but it makes sense that way. The preceding (now following, retaining the reverse order) also makes sense:

    Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit. [Pro 26:5 KJV]
    Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him. [Pro 26:4 KJV]
    A whip for the horse, a bridle for the ***, and a rod for the fool's back. [Pro 26:3 KJV] (Are we censoring the good King James these days?)

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  6. #3604
    Your powers are weak, old man. Knight's Avatar
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    Hey Dave you mentioned that you posted a time lapse video of the sun setting which you claim demonstrates the sun disappearing into the horizon. I would like to check that video out. But this thread is a long one and I can't find it. Can you point me to it or better yet... repost it?

    Thanks in advance.
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    Your powers are weak, old man. Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clete View Post
    ...on David's part, which is why he's now on my ignore list.
    What's the point in ignoring him?

    This has been a fun thread. Frustrating at times? Yes. But still fun.
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    TOL Legend Clete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knight View Post
    What's the point in ignoring him?

    This has been a fun thread. Frustrating at times? Yes. But still fun.
    I agree that this has been a terrific thread, one of the best in a long time, in fact. But I just think Derf's point is right. It's become counter productive and while I'm more than happy to continue debating the topic, Dave is no longer debating. He has barely debated the topic from the beginning and now it just seems to me that he's decided to stubbornly cling to what he has been repeatedly shown to be not only false but just flat out dumb, and engaging him any further would seem to suggest that for him to do so is okay. It's not okay. He harms himself and, in the minds of those unbelievers he interacts with, the reputation of the whole Christian faith. If he were an atheist, I'd argue with him till the cows come home, but he's a believer. That makes his mindlessness harmful to all of us.

    If Dave decides to repent and begins to actually debate the issue with some intellectual honesty, I'll reconsider. Until then, I'm not going to waste my time arguing with someone (especially a professing believer) who has turned off his mind.

    Clete
    "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

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    Silver Member JudgeRightly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    cool video.

    Flat earthers must believe that the moon is many times smaller than it is which accounts for its apparent size in the sky.

    I wonder then how they account for the fact that our current understanding of both the Moon's size (it's mass) and it's distance accounts perfectly for the tides and that a linear reduction in mass along with a decrease in distance would not make the numbers come out right in an attempt to figure out the tidal forces because of the inverse square law.

    In other words, if an object is half as far away, in order for its apparent size to remain the same, its size must be reduced by half as well. But gravity doesn't work in this linear fashion. An object that is half as far away doesn't pull twice as hard, it pulls four times as hard. This exponential relationship between the pull of gravity and the distance of an object makes the flat earth model unworkable. There is simply no way to rigorously account for the observable facts of reality from within their ridiculous model.

    Clete
    "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

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    Silver Member JudgeRightly's Avatar
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    https://www.reddit.com/r/space/comme...out_this_view/

    No, the roundness of the earth in this gif is not caused by a fisheye lens.

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    Over 750 post club Derf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clete View Post
    cool video.

    Flat earthers must believe that the moon is many times smaller than it is which accounts for its apparent size in the sky.

    I wonder then how they account for the fact that our current understanding of both the Moon's size (it's mass) and it's distance accounts perfectly for the tides and that a linear reduction in mass along with a decrease in distance would not make the numbers come out right in an attempt to figure out the tidal forces because of the inverse square law.

    In other words, if an object is half as far away, in order for its apparent size to remain the same, its size must be reduced by half as well. But gravity doesn't work in this linear fashion. An object that is half as far away doesn't pull twice as hard, it pulls four times as hard. This exponential relationship between the pull of gravity and the distance of an object makes the flat earth model unworkable. There is simply no way to rigorously account for the observable facts of reality from within their ridiculous model.

    Clete
    How do we determine the mass of the moon? Isn't it by the orbit it is in, its apparent size, and the effects it has on the earth, including the tides? If the moon were just 3000 miles away, and it's apparent size were the same, then to make its gravity the same would mean a decrease in density/mass.

    I'd be curious to see what the flat earth model would do for the tides, with the moon and sun pulling in the same direction (up). But even before that, you have to find out how they pretend to deal with the gravity of the moon and sun, since the earth gravity is generated by acceleration. How do the sun and moon stay in their 2-d precessing circular orbits around the vertical extension of the north pole?

    If the gravity is generated by acceleration, the tidal bulges become...what? daily sloshing from a wobble in the flat earth as it accelerates upward?

    And, once you get back to talking about acceleration causing the appearance of gravity, there are so many other things to deal with--like the problem of the atmosphere being held in place by...what? the ice walls? They sure have to be a lot bigger than the few hundred feet or even thousand feet shown in Dave's pictures.

    I tend to agree with Knight that it's an interesting discussion, because you have to get beyond the things you've been taught all your life. But i also agree with you that Dave isn't really wanting to consider the evidence.

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