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Thread: Saved And Salvation Are Different

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cross Reference View Post
    Operative phrase = "come unto me". "And if you don't, don't expect anything from Me".

    Will that work?
    I said
    I like that. Thanks.

    John 14:1-6

    1 "Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me.
    2 "In My Father's house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
    3 "And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.
    4 "And where I go you know, and the way you know."
    5 Thomas said to Him, "Lord, we do not know where You are going, and how can we know the way?"
    6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
    (NKJ)

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    At a minimum three years in the milk understanding and eleven years in the meat understanding. And we come to Jesus' revelations.

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    Lets keep in mind, Jesus was speaking to His Disciples . . . . not intended for anyone outside the circle to understand. cf John 3:3,5.
    "That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;" Philippians 2:15 (KJV)

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    Hi Squeaky,

    The translation saved is a little wacky in Ephesians 2. Looking at the Greek, it is cased in perfect tense. Everyplace in the Bible except this chapter, the perfect tense of this word is translated as healed rather than saved.

    Without going too far into Greek grammar, saved here stands as a synonym for the word quickened or made alive, which appears earlier in verse 5.

    Overall, the chapter says that the Ephesians were (metaphorically) dead in their sins, but were (again metaphorically) made alive. And this was done for no reason other than God's grace.

    Attempts to build a soteriology on this chapter, or define words around these few verses are misguided at best. Ephesians 2's saved is an irregular usage, and should not be used to define the word elsewhere in the Bibe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    Saved is not salvation

    Hi and then explain the difference if you can ??

    dan p

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    [QUOTE=Squeaky;4 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,[/QUOTE]


    Hi and here SOZO / SAVED is final !!

    For by Grace you are HAVING BEEN SAVED is correct !!

    SOZO / SAVED is in the Greek PERFECT TENSE , PASSIVE VOICE and in a PARTICIPLE !!

    The Greek word HAVING is the Particple as it ends in " ING " and speaks to having been saved in past time !

    The PERFECT TENSE is in the Past tense or AORIST TENSE which looks BACK to our salvation in past time !!

    The PASIVE VOICE , just means that God saved us and not man , or BAPTISM or TONGUES !

    And the PRESENT TENSE means we are CONTINUALLY always saved , PERIOD or OSAS !!

    dan p
    Last edited by DAN P; January 16th, 2017 at 03:15 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DAN P View Post
    Hi and then explain the difference if you can ??

    dan p
    I said
    Saved is temporary, salvation is eternal. Saved is a free gift, salvation must be worked for.
    A person is saved from the condemnation they deserve right now, so that they can work out their salvation.

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to Squeaky For Your Post:

    Cross Reference (January 16th, 2017)

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    Quote Originally Posted by DAN P View Post
    Hi and here SOZO / SAVED is final !!

    For by Grace you are HAVING BEEN SAVED is correct !!

    SOZO / SAVED is in the Greek PERFECT TENSE , PASSIVE VOICE and in a PARTICIPLE !!

    The Greek word HAING id the Particple as it ends in " ING " and speaks to having been saved in past time !

    The PERFECT TENSE is in the Past tense or AORIST TENSE which looks BACK to our salvation in past time !!

    The PASIVE VOICE , just means that God saved us and not man , or BAPTISM or TONGUES !

    And the PRESENT TENSE means we are CONTINUALLY always saved , PERIOD or OSAS !!

    dan p
    I said
    Away to intellectual for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    I said
    Saved is temporary, salvation is eternal. Saved is a free gift, salvation must be worked for.
    A person is saved from the condemnation they deserve right now, so that they can work out their salvation.
    See John 17:3 for confirmation.
    "That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;" Philippians 2:15 (KJV)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    I said
    Away to intellectual for me.

    Hi and just google , and see what the Greek perfect tense means GRASSHOPPER !!

    DAN P

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    Quote Originally Posted by DAN P View Post
    Hi and here SOZO / SAVED is final !!

    For by Grace you are HAVING BEEN SAVED is correct !!

    SOZO / SAVED is in the Greek PERFECT TENSE , PASSIVE VOICE and in a PARTICIPLE !!

    The Greek word HAING id the Particple as it ends in " ING " and speaks to having been saved in past time !

    The PERFECT TENSE is in the Past tense or AORIST TENSE which looks BACK to our salvation in past time !!

    The PASIVE VOICE , just means that God saved us and not man , or BAPTISM or TONGUES !

    And the PRESENT TENSE means we are CONTINUALLY always saved , PERIOD or OSAS !!

    dan p
    You give me headaches. In the phrase "by grace you are saved," the verb that governs the tense is este. It's present tense; not past tense.

    As for sesosmenoi, you seem to have no conception of how perfect tense works in the participle. A perfect participle indicates a continuing state resulting from completed action.

    In this case, it refers back to the action of sunezopoiesen. The Ephesians were made alive, and now they continue in a state of life.

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    If the heart is not right with God what can be assumed the intellect won't get accomplish?
    "That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;" Philippians 2:15 (KJV)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wick Stick View Post
    You give me headaches. In the phrase "by grace you are saved," the verb that governs the tense is este. It's present tense; not past tense.

    As for sesosmenoi, you seem to have no conception of how perfect tense works in the participle. A perfect participle indicates a continuing state resulting from completed action.

    In this case, it refers back to the action of sunezopoiesen. The Ephesians were made alive, and now they continue in a state of life.

    Hi and yes ESTE /YE ARE is in the PRESENT TENSE and also in the INDICATIVE MOOD of a FACT !!

    So where is the PARTICIPLE in verse 8 ?

    This translator says the the PARTICIPLE IS HAVING BEEN SOZO / SAVED which is in the PERFECT TENSE which is a combo of the AORIST TENSE and the PRESENT TENSE which make the PERFECT TENSE !!

    This then means that when a person is SAVED / SOZO in the Past tense and are always in the Greek PERSENT TENSE of CONTINUOUS ACTION or OSAS !!

    I believe that the ESTE /ARE YOU , present tense just means , here and speaks to the DISPENSATION of the GRACE OF God !!

    dan p

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    Quote Originally Posted by DAN P View Post
    Hi and just google , and see what the Greek perfect tense means GRASSHOPPER !!

    DAN P
    I said
    I'm sorry but maybe you don't understand. Everything I get I get from the Holy Spirit or the revelations of Jesus Christ. I'm happy all my questions are answered that way. Why would I turn away from them to listen to some Greek's opinion?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cross Reference View Post
    If the heart is not right with God what can be assumed the intellect won't get accomplish?
    I said
    Can you define the heart?

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