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Thread: Saved And Salvation Are Different

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    Cool Saved And Salvation Are Different

    SAVED IS TEMPORARY-SALVATION IS ETERNAL
    Eph 2:4-10
    4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
    5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
    6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
    7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
    8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
    9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
    10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
    Eph 2:11-15
    11 Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh-- who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands--
    12 that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.
    13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
    14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation,
    15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace,
    Rom 3:21-24
    21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
    22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference;
    23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
    24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
    Rom 4:1
    1 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh?
    Rom 3:23-24
    23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
    24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
    Rom 3:24-26
    24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
    25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed,
    26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
    Gal 5:17
    17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.
    John 14:16-18
    16 "And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever--
    17 "the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.
    18 "I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.
    John 14:26
    26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.
    John 16:13-14
    13 "However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.
    14 "He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you.
    John 16:4-12
    4 "But these things I have told you, that when the time comes, you may remember that I told you of them. And these things I did not say to you at the beginning, because I was with you.
    5 "But now I go away to Him who sent Me, and none of you asks Me, 'Where are You going?'
    6 "But because I have said these things to you, sorrow has filled your heart.
    7 "Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you.
    8 "And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
    9 "of sin, because they do not believe in Me;
    10 "of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more;
    11 "of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.
    12 "I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now.
    Phil 2:12-15
    12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;
    13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.
    14 Do all things without complaining and disputing,
    15 that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world,
    Jude 1:5
    5 But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.
    James 1:22-25
    22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.
    23 For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror;
    24 for he observes himself, goes away, and immediately forgets what kind of man he was.
    25 But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does.
    James 2:17-18
    17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
    18 But someone will say, "You have faith, and I have works." Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
    James 2:24
    24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
    James 2:26
    26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
    (NKJ)
    xxx Without Christ you belong to satan. And if you turn to Christ satan will come after you. But because you turned to Christ God will save you while you are working out your salvation with Christ.

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    Revoke Your Saved Statis

    Matt 18:23-35
    23 "Therefore the kingdom of heaven is like a certain king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants.
    24 "And when he had begun to settle accounts, one was brought to him who owed him ten thousand talents.
    25 "But as he was not able to pay, his master commanded that he be sold, with his wife and children and all that he had, and that payment be made.
    26 "The servant therefore fell down before him, saying, 'Master, have patience with me, and I will pay you all.'
    27 "Then the master of that servant was moved with compassion, released him, and forgave him the debt.
    28 "But that servant went out and found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii; and he laid hands on him and took him by the throat, saying, 'Pay me what you owe!'
    29 "So his fellow servant fell down at his feet and begged him, saying, 'Have patience with me, and I will pay you all.'
    30 "And he would not, but went and threw him into prison till he should pay the debt.
    31 "So when his fellow servants saw what had been done, they were very grieved, and came and told their master all that had been done.
    32 "Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, 'You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me.
    33 'Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?'
    34 "And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him.
    35 "So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses."
    Gal 5:1-15
    1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.
    2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.
    3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.
    4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
    5 For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
    6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.
    7 You ran well. Who hindered you from obeying the truth?
    8 This persuasion does not come from Him who calls you.
    9 A little leaven leavens the whole lump.
    10 I have confidence in you, in the Lord, that you will have no other mind; but he who troubles you shall bear his judgment, whoever he is.
    11 And I, brethren, if I still preach circumcision, why do I still suffer persecution? Then the offense of the cross has ceased.
    12 I could wish that those who trouble you would even cut themselves off!
    13 For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another.
    14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."
    15 But if you bite and devour one another, beware lest you be consumed by one another!
    Titus 1:16
    16 They profess to know God, but in works they deny Him, being abominable, disobedient, and disqualified for every good work.
    1 Cor 9:27
    27 But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.
    2 Cor 13:5-6
    5 Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?-- unless indeed you are disqualified.
    6 But I trust that you will know that we are not disqualified.
    John 12:24-25
    24 "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it produces much grain.
    25 "He who loves his life will lose it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life.
    Rev 22:18-19
    18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;
    19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
    (NKJ)
    xxx You can be saved and loose it. You can be disqualified. You can fall from grace. You can also fall short of salvation.

  3. #3
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    You can be saved and loose it. You can be disqualified. You can fall from grace. You can also fall short of salvation.
    The Christian is told that he already possesses eternal life (1 Jn.5:11) and here is what the Lord Jesus says about those to whom He has given eternal life:

    "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand" (Jn.10:28).

    The Lord Jesus also said this:

    "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out" (Jn.6:37).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    The Christian is told that he already possesses eternal life (1 Jn.5:11) and here is what the Lord Jesus says about those to whom He has given eternal life:

    "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand" (Jn.10:28).

    The Lord Jesus also said this:

    "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out" (Jn.6:37).
    I said
    To many people only read the promises of God. They forget that with every promise there is an "IF"
    ONLY CHRISTIANS IF? ONLY LOVED IF? IF IS A CONDITION

    Heb 3:5-6
    5 And Moses indeed was faithful in all His house as a servant, for a testimony of those things which would be spoken afterward,
    6 but Christ as a Son over His own house, whose house we are IF we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.
    Eph 4:21
    21 IF indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus:
    John 6:29
    29 Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent."
    Matt 11:27
    27 "All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.
    1 Pet 4:17-18
    17 For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and IF it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?
    18 Now "IF the righteous one is scarcely saved, where will the ungodly and the sinner appear?"
    Heb 3:14
    14 For we have become partakers of Christ IF we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end,
    I Jn 1:8-10
    8 IF we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
    9 IF we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
    10 IF we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
    2 Cor 10:3-5
    3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh.
    4 For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds,
    5 casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ,
    I Jn 2:4-5
    4 He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
    5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him.
    John 15:10
    10 "IF you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.
    John 15:14
    14 "You are My friends IF you do whatever I command you.
    I Jn 2:3
    3 Now by this we know that we know Him, IF we keep His commandments.
    Matt 6:14-15
    14 "For IF you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
    15 "But IF you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
    I Jn 5:3-4
    3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.
    4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world-- our faith.
    Rev 22:18-19
    18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: IF anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;
    19 and IF anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
    Matt 28:20
    20 "teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen.
    (NKJ)Col 1:23
    23 IF indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.
    (NKJ)
    xxx The IF's in the Word of God are conditions of love. There is no such thing as unconditional love. God says He will(not is) but will be a Father to us. If has always been one of the biggest conditions for love in God. God will love you IF.

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    2 Cor 6:14-18
    14 Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?
    15 And what accord has Christ with Belial? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever?
    16 And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of the living God. As God has said: "I will dwell in them and walk among them. I will be their God, and they shall be My people."
    17 Therefore "Come out from among them and be separate, says the Lord. Do not touch what is unclean, and I will receive you."
    18 "I will be a Father to you, and you shall be My sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty."
    (NKJ)


    2 Pet 1:5-10
    5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge,
    6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness,
    7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love.
    8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
    9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.
    10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble;
    (NKJ)


    Gal 3:29
    29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
    (NKJ)

    Gal 5:24-25
    24 And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
    25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
    (NKJ)

    John 15:7
    7 "If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you.
    (NKJ)


    John 14:15
    15 "If you love Me, keep My commandments.
    (NKJ)

    John 15:10
    10 "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.
    (NKJ)


    Heb 8:6-7
    6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.
    7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.
    (NKJ)

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    I said
    To many people only read the promises of God. They forget that with every promise there is an "IF"
    ONLY CHRISTIANS IF? ONLY LOVED IF? IF IS A CONDITION

    Heb 3:5-6
    5 And Moses indeed was faithful in all His house as a servant, for a testimony of those things which would be spoken afterward,
    6 but Christ as a Son over His own house, whose house we are IF we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.

    "For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end"
    (Heb.3:14).

    The Greek word (metochoi) translated "partakers" might be more literally rendered "partners". One of the meanings of that Greek word is "a partner (in a work, office, dignity)" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).

    The role of the "work" of "serving" the Lord, like the privilege of serving in the priestly house (v.6), is dependent on continued fidelity. This verse is not speaking of eternal salvation but instead about serving the Lord Jesus. We can see that the reference to "house" in the following verses are in regard to service":

    "And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after; But Christ as a Son over His own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end" (Heb.3:5-6).

    Again, by the "context" we can see that the Son's own house refers to His Priestly "service" (Heb.2:17; 3:1).

    Of course you did not even attempt to prove what I said here is in error:

    The Christian is told that he already possesses eternal life (1 Jn.5:11) and here is what the Lord Jesus says about those to whom He has given eternal life:

    "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand" (Jn.10:28).

    The Lord Jesus also said this:

    "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out"
    (Jn.6:37).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post

    "For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end"
    (Heb.3:14).

    The Greek word (metochoi) translated "partakers" might be more literally rendered "partners". One of the meanings of that Greek word is "a partner (in a work, office, dignity)" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).

    The role of the "work" of "serving" the Lord, like the privilege of serving in the priestly house (v.6), is dependent on continued fidelity. This verse is not speaking of eternal salvation but instead about serving the Lord Jesus. We can see that the reference to "house" in the following verses are in regard to service":

    "And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after; But Christ as a Son over His own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end" (Heb.3:5-6).

    Again, by the "context" we can see that the Son's own house refers to His Priestly "service" (Heb.2:17; 3:1).

    Of course you did not even attempt to prove what I said here is in error:

    The Christian is told that he already possesses eternal life (1 Jn.5:11) and here is what the Lord Jesus says about those to whom He has given eternal life:

    "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand" (Jn.10:28).

    The Lord Jesus also said this:

    "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out"
    (Jn.6:37).
    I said
    You seem to twist and pervert every verse before you believe it.


    John 14:15-16
    15 "If you love Me, keep My commandments.
    16 "And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever--
    (NKJ)

    John 14:21
    21 "He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him."
    (NKJ)

    John 15:10
    10 "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.
    (NKJ)

    Phil 2:12-13
    12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;
    13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.
    (NKJ)

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    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    I said
    You seem to twist and pervert every verse before you believe it.
    I answered the first passage which you presented.

    You continue to IGNORE the ones which presented:

    The Christian is told that he already possesses eternal life (1 Jn.5:11) and here is what the Lord Jesus says about those to whom He has given eternal life:

    "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand" (Jn.10:28).

    The Lord Jesus also said this:

    "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out" (Jn.6:37)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    I answered the first passage which you presented.

    You continue to IGNORE the ones which presented:

    The Christian is told that he already possesses eternal life (1 Jn.5:11) and here is what the Lord Jesus says about those to whom He has given eternal life:

    "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand" (Jn.10:28).

    The Lord Jesus also said this:

    "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out" (Jn.6:37)
    I said
    But you leave out the IF's. No one has any right to them verses without going through the IF's first.

    I Jn 2:4-5
    4 He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
    5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him.
    (NKJ)

    Have you crucified all your emotions?? Do you keep all Jesus' commandments?

    Gal 5:24-25
    24 And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
    25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
    (NKJ)

    John 15:7
    7 "If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you.
    (NKJ)


    John 14:15
    15 "If you love Me, keep My commandments.
    (NKJ)

    John 15:10
    10 "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.
    (NKJ)

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    Saved is not salvation

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    Operative phrase = "he that cometh to ME". OMT: "Shall" and "will" connote freewill; one's choosing in the matter.
    "That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;" Philippians 2:15 (KJV)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cross Reference View Post
    Operative phrase = "he that cometh to ME". OMT: "Shall" and "will" connote freewill; one's choosing in the matter.
    I said
    I'm sorry I don't understand that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    I said
    I'm sorry I don't understand that.
    What part?
    "That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;" Philippians 2:15 (KJV)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cross Reference View Post
    What part?
    I said
    Everything you said. could you rephrase it

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    Operative phrase = "come unto me". "And if you don't, don't expect anything from Me".

    Will that work?
    "That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;" Philippians 2:15 (KJV)

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