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Thread: Fundamental question: how can the one David referred to be his son?

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    Quote Originally Posted by steko View Post
    Verse 29 speaks of King David.


    Act 2:29* Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.*

    Verse 30 says that King David's descendant, Messiah, would be raised up by GOD to sit on his(King David's) throne.


    Act 2:30* Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;*


    Verse 31 says that King David, as a prophet, spoke of the resurrection of Messiah, when David said(verse 30) that his descendant would be raised up to sit on David's throne.

    Act 2:31* He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.


    Verse 32 says that GOD has raised up this Jesus of Nazareth and that Peter and the rest are all witnesses of the fact.

    *
    Act 2:32* This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.*

    Verse 33 says that Messiah has been exalted to the right hand of GOD.

    Act 2:33* Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.*

    Verse 34 refers back to verses 29 and 31 that King David was not referring to himself but to his future descendant.

    Peter then quotes Ps 110 concerning Messiah prophesied to be seated at the right hand of GOD.
    And verse 35.

    Act 2:34* For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,*
    Act 2:35* Until I make thy foes thy footstool.


    Verse 36 Peter says to the historically represented house of Israel, that GOD has made Jesus of Nazareth, whom they had crucified, both Lord and Messiah.
    *
    Act 2:36* Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.*

    Peter says nothing about Jesus Messiah being presently seated on David's throne.

    One would have to forcibly glom that on from one's own imagination thru dialectical synthesis.
    Yeah, that's right, it's you and Northwye who are guilty of dialectic thought.
    Those who read the Scriptures for what they literally say in context are not involved in the triadic thought process.

    Again, Peter says nothing about Messiah being presently seated on David's throne.
    What he says is that Messiah was raised up 'to sit' on David's throne.
    He doesn't say that Messiah is now sitting there.
    In Biblical context, David's throne is a reign from Jerusalem over the twelve tribes of Israel in the land called Israel.
    Messiah can't reign from David's throne until there is a sufficient believing remnant to constitute the twelve tribes in the land promised.
    Messiah is now seated in the Father's throne, at the right hand of GOD, expecting until His enemies become subservient. As Psalm 110 says, "My people(Israel) will be willing in the day of His power".

    Jesus Messiah said in Mt 25:31 that He will sit on that throne at His second coming.

    Jesus Messiah says in Mt 23:39 that He will not be recognizably seen by Israel until they say unto Him, "Baruch haba b'shem Adonai".

    Peter says in Acts 3:19-20 that GOD will not send Jesus Messiah back until Israel(a sufficient remnant) repents.

    Gabriel said, to Mary:

    Luk 1:31* And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.*
    Luk 1:32* He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:*
    Luk 1:33* And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.*


    I believe all of these Scriptures. You don't.
    You're caught in the dialectical tangled up barbed-wire and you make no sense to simple ordinary people who take GOD at His Word.





    You just changed what v31's "what was ahead" means. You changed it, not me. v33 doubles up: exalted to that right hand he was just talking about.

    Why would he even say v34 if anything you said was true?

    Peter realized the power of 1:8 (the admin term of royal decrees and actions) had just taken place through him, who totally did not deserve. To evangelize Israel and kick-start it into the mission (you may have noticed that is what Acts turns into).

    A Davidic theocracy is nowhere, and futurism is nowhere. It is entirely about what happened right there.

    This persistent departure from the reality at hand is total madness. It is Chafer's madness. He is the one who does not make sense; stop 'pleasing' his 'need' to have the Bible make sense.

    The Bible makes sense when we agree that 'in your Seed, all nations will be blessed' is Christ and his gospel, as seen by Abraham originally, Jn 7 and Gal 3.

    Chafer could not grasp that, being a bit dull and everything is a trainwreck since.
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    There is no 2nd purpose to Christ. How can someone like Paul speak so energetically and sweepingly about all that has been accomplished in Christ and how all principalities and powers in heaven and earth are to submit to Christ now...and forget the little detail about some short period in the future where the whole worship system is back up and running (Ezek __) as such?

    More to the point, how did he forget this in Acts 26 when he said it was all fulfilled in the resurrection?
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    Why doesn't Acts 26 and the end of Acts 28 for that matter end with the thrilling and exhuberant news that the worship system will be set up one day on earth, and the 'problem' of unbelief will never exist again in Israel, etc., etc.

    He just never thought to add that touch to it.
    Last edited by Interplanner; September 9th, 2017 at 07:05 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    There is no 2nd purpose to Christ. How can someone like Paul speak so energetically and sweepingly about all that has been accomplished in Christ and how all principalities and powers in heaven and earth are to submit to Christ now...and forget the little detail about some short period in the future where the whole worship system is back up and running (Ezek __) as such?

    More to the point, how did he forget this in Acts 26 when he said it was all fulfilled in the resurrection?
    made up
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    You're too literal to get it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    The New Covenant preceded the Old Covenant.

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    Jesus Messiah says in Mt 23:39 that He will not be recognizably seen by Israel until they say unto Him, "Baruch haba b'shem Adonai".




    Which the disciples (the wider group) did shortly after, and were rebuked by Judaism's leaders. That is who 'saw' vs those who did not. It is not a distant future prediction; it is a cutting statement about how a person sees Christ truly.
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    Peter says in Acts 3:19-20 that GOD will not send Jesus Messiah back until Israel(a sufficient remnant) repents.





    and yet v26 says he already was sent, and times of refreshing did come. So that sending is not a prediction again (like Mt 23), but saying that Christ will be at work among them if they repent and join in the work of the Gospel as the way of blessing all nations.

    Also check out remain. It sounds like it is pre-occupied with locations, but actually it is 'recieve'--to be accepted. His acceptance by heaven is what insures the promised gift of the Spirit comes to men to work in Christ's mission. This work, this outpouring, was far more of a concern to those OT and IT and NT Jewish people who believed than the land as such.

    So it's: heaven's acceptance of what Christ did insures the outpouring of the Spirit of God, which will continue until the time when God will restore the whole universe, the NHNE.

    And then there's the term everything. Just the land of Israel and Judaism? How about everything?

    there are just a few of these verses that seem to line up for D'ism and Chafer until you round it out with the total message of Scripture.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    Peter says in Acts 3:19-20 that GOD will not send Jesus Messiah back until Israel(a sufficient remnant) repents.





    and yet v26 says he already was sent, and times of refreshing did come. So that sending is not a prediction again (like Mt 23), but saying that Christ will be at work among them if they repent and join in the work of the Gospel as the way of blessing all nations.

    Also check out remain. It sounds like it is pre-occupied with locations, but actually it is 'recieve'--to be accepted. His acceptance by heaven is what insures the promised gift of the Spirit comes to men to work in Christ's mission. This work, this outpouring, was far more of a concern to those OT and IT and NT Jewish people who believed than the land as such.

    So it's: heaven's acceptance of what Christ did insures the outpouring of the Spirit of God, which will continue until the time when God will restore the whole universe, the NHNE.

    And then there's the term everything. Just the land of Israel and Judaism? How about everything?

    there are just a few of these verses that seem to line up for D'ism and Chafer until you round it out with the total message of Scripture.
    made up
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    You're too literal to get it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    The New Covenant preceded the Old Covenant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    and yet v26 says he already was sent, and times of refreshing did come.
    100% made up.
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    You're too literal to get it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    The New Covenant preceded the Old Covenant.

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    Lexical notes on 'dechomai' (receive, Acts 3:21).
    *the next use was 7:59 when Stephen was received by heaven. 'Accepted' might work.
    *concrete: to receive letters, Acts 22:5
    *welcome to a house: Lk 16:4 To 'honor' is included here as a 'hero's welcome' might be used today
    *otherwise the alternates are the even more concrete: to grasp something in one's hand, or
    *to approve as in I cor 2:14
    *Lk 18:17 is to receive grace or favor.

    I really have no idea now why NIV went with 'remain.' It is a passive sense that does not show in the lexical lists of Bauer etc., and the older Analytical Lexicon.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    There is no 2nd purpose to Christ. How can someone like Paul speak so energetically and sweepingly about all that has been accomplished in Christ and how all principalities and powers in heaven and earth are to submit to Christ now...
    Are all things currently under his feet? What doth Hebrews say?
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    You're too literal to get it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    The New Covenant preceded the Old Covenant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SaulToPaul View Post
    Are all things currently under his feet? What doth Hebrews say?
    Hebrews 2:8 says not yet.

    God Bless America

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tambora View Post
    Hebrews 2:8 says not yet.
    Yes, I don't understand why Interplanner would fight against such.
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    You're too literal to get it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    The New Covenant preceded the Old Covenant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SaulToPaul View Post
    Yes, I don't understand why Interplanner would fight against such.
    It doesn't line up with his fictional story.
    IP prefers fiction.

    God Bless America

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tambora View Post
    It doesn't line up with his fictional story.
    IP prefers fiction.
    Well, we live in the real world, and I see the god of this world still raising havoc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tambora View Post
    Hebrews 2:8 says not yet.




    The Christian faith is to be preached. That is where it's reality exists. It is not by sight, it is by faith and the person with the eyes of faith sees what it says is true and calls all men to obey. So of course we don't see this world submit, but that does not mean we do not preach Christ as Lord to all men to obey 'lest (the Son) be angry with you and strike you' Ps 2.

    There is no fiction about that.

    The end of the world was expected very quickly in all NT teaching. So when he talked about the world to come (see the context) and said THAT was what we were talking about (that world to come), he expected to be there soon.

    Neither TAm nor STP gets either of these points about the NT. And besides here we are 2000 years later...so isn't it time to say, 'they must have meants something else.' No, not if it is the faith once and for all delivered.

    I do not have a final conflict in what I've said. And no, the NT about the reign of Christ is not resolved by saying it is coming and will be in Jerusalem. That is clearly not the meaning of the NT. D'ism exists to perpetuate 2 peoples and 2 programs and thus make the Bible true in an irreconcilable duality, not a unity. That means that to them the Bible is essentially irrational.
    Last edited by Interplanner; October 1st, 2017 at 07:02 AM.
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