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Thread: Was Faith Plus Works Required For Salvation Under the Law?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    This is the better translation:

    "We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are"
    (Acts 15:11; NIV).

    Here the Greek word translated "we are saved" is in the "aorist" tense and this defines that tense:

    "The aorist tense is characterized by its emphasis on punctiliar action; that is, the concept of the verb is considered without regard for past, present, or future time. There is no direct or clear English equivalent for this tense, though it is generally rendered as a simple past tense in most translation"
    (The Blue Letter Bible).

    So Peter uses a tense that is saying that their salvation, whenever it happens, is on the principle of grace. And since Peter makes it plain at 1 Peter 1:18-19 that these Christians have already been redeemed by the blood of the Lord Jesus it is obvious that they are already saved....
    Actually, an even stronger argument is the fact that because the aorist is not bound by a time frame, it is applied when a general rule of thumb or principle, is what is being referred to.

    Acts 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the LORD Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they. 15:12 Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.

    Thus, what Peter is doing there is reminding his own of the general principle they were already aware of - that salvation is by grace through faith.

    The issue being that some were asserting that only applied to Israelites and proselytes; as only they were considered clean.

    Thus, why Peter brings up the end of the difference between Jew and Gentile that he brings up there.

    This "no difference" NOW as to the INDIVIDUAL salvation of EITHER, now - AFTER the Law had proven BOTH "under sin" Rom. 3:19-20, was the very principle or general rule of thumb, that Paul reminds Peter of in the following...

    Galatians 2:14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews? 2:15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. 2:18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. 2:19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

    Again, the aorist tense is often used when a general rule of thum is being described. Which is what the "shall be" is in the sense of, in the following passage...

    15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the LORD Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

    The "shall be" there is not referring to a time element, anymore than it is in a passage like the following...

    Acts 19:39 But if ye enquire any thing concerning other matters, it shall be determined in a lawful assembly.

    It is referring to a general rule of thumb not bound by time elements like the past, the present, and the future.

    Rather, it refers to a general rule of thumb; a constant that is always the rule.

    Said general rule of thumb here?

    The one Paul reminded Peter of in Galatians 2, that he reminds the Galatians of in...

    Galatians 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

  2. #32
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    Acts 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

    It's interesting what some make of the above.

    Today's MJs (the various Messianic Jewish groups) assert that is referring to Noahide laws Gentiles were under.

    Only to contradict themselves by asserting that verse 21 is referring to there being synagogues the Gentiles could learn the Law of Moses through, for them to keep.

    But neither is the case.

    In verse 20, every aspect of that is the issue of Gentile idol worship.

    While verse 21 is the issue of their having been plenty of synagogues still blindly following the distinction between Jew and Gentile the Law through that distinction had actually proven both under sin and in need of God's grace in His Son.

    15:22 Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren: 15:23 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia: 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment: 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; 15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

    Paul himself taught turning from ANY form of idolatry...

    1 Corinthians 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

    1 Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

    1 Corinthians 10:7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.

    1 Corinthians 10:14 Wherefore, my dearly beloved, flee from idolatry.

    1 Corinthians 12:2 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.

    2 Corinthians 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

    Galatians 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

    Ephesians 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

    Colossians 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:

    Why?

    1 Thessalonians 1:8 For from you sounded out the word of the Lord not only in Macedonia and Achaia, but also in every place your faith to God-ward is spread abroad; so that we need not to speak any thing. 1:9 For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God; 1:10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

  3. #33
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    Actually, an even stronger argument is the fact that because the aorist is not bound by a time frame, it is applied when a general rule of thumb or principle, is what is being referred to.
    Could you please quote a Greek expert explaining that? Your explanation leaves me confused.

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