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Thread: Mad finds itself in the trash by applying simple logic

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    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    Tam,
    you realize that was a Judaic Pharisee speaking, right? What would you expect?
    You realize that they asked Jesus about the law, right?

    They didn't ask Him if He had any special knowledge of the woman'a guilt.
    They asked Him concerning the law.
    To condemn someone outside the instructions of the law would make one a lawbreaker.
    The instructions on how to conduct an inquiry of adultery was specified in the law.
    Did they violate the law? Yes.
    Did Jesus violate the law? No.

    We don't tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters exist.
    They already know monsters exist.
    We tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters can be killed.

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    [/QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by musterion View Post
    Vicarious lawkeeping is a lie.

    If He kept the Law FOR us ("lived a perfect life on our behalf" as some say), rather than just dying for our sins, then He Himself would need not have died since in effect no one would have broken the Law by virtue of His having kept it for us.


    You're completely missing what took place in the atonement then. Mankind's sins were imputed/credited to him, and because he completed all righteousness, his righteousness can be imputed back, 2 Cor 5.

    Rom 10: Christ has fulfilled the law, so there may be righteousness for all who believe. 10:4.
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    Over 2500 post club andyc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by musterion View Post
    Vicarious lawkeeping is a lie.

    If He kept the Law FOR us ("lived a perfect life on our behalf" as some say), rather than just dying for our sins, then He Himself would need not have died since in effect no one would have broken the Law by virtue of His having kept it for us.
    His perfect life alone would only have accomplished his own salvation. The law had a claim on everyone else, and this is where atonement is made on our behalf.
    Delight yourself in the LORD, And He shall give you the desires of your heart. . Psalms 37:4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    You're completely missing what took place in the atonement then. Mankind's sins were imputed/credited to him, and because he completed all righteousness, his righteousness can be imputed back, 2 Cor 5.

    Rom 10: Christ has fulfilled the law, so there may be righteousness for all who believe. 10:4.
    All Lives Matter --Marcus Sanford, youtube.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    You missed what vicarious means!

    Rom 10: Christ has fulfilled the law, so there may be righteousness for all who believe. 10:4.
    What ghastly mistranslation is that you pulled out of your tiny hat?

    http://biblehub.com/romans/10-4.htm
    "There is one thing worse than going to Hell. That would be going to Hell and having it be a surprise."
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    Everyone who has not believed the Gospel of grace is not saved, no matter what else they believe or do.
    By that measure, how many professing Christians are on their way to the Lake of Fire?

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    Quote Originally Posted by andyc View Post
    His perfect life alone would only have accomplished his own salvation.
    What?

    The law had a claim on everyone else, and this is where atonement is made on our behalf.
    By his DEATH and RESURRECTION, not by His life.
    "There is one thing worse than going to Hell. That would be going to Hell and having it be a surprise."
    Terence Mc Lean

    [most will be very surprised]


    Everyone who has not believed the Gospel of grace is not saved, no matter what else they believe or do.
    By that measure, how many professing Christians are on their way to the Lake of Fire?

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    Quote Originally Posted by musterion View Post
    What?



    By his DEATH and RESURRECTION, not by His life.


    Nope, even getting baptised by John was 'to fulfill all righteousness.' Mt 3:16.

    In the sermon on the mount, there is probably a double entendre: he does mean for us to exceed in righteousness, but I think he meant himself, too.
    All Lives Matter --Marcus Sanford, youtube.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tambora View Post
    You realize that they asked Jesus about the law, right?

    They didn't ask Him if He had any special knowledge of the woman'a guilt.
    They asked Him concerning the law.
    To condemn someone outside the instructions of the law would make one a lawbreaker.
    The instructions on how to conduct an inquiry of adultery was specified in the law.
    Did they violate the law? Yes.
    Did Jesus violate the law? No.
    It was not an official trial, and so the details are irrelevant. It was nothing but a trap, pure and simple.
    Condemnation of the law can only be forgiven if people believe in Jesus. The accusers didn't believe in Jesus, and so the woman remained under condemnation from their perspective. Understand?
    If you remove Jesus out of the equation, your left with condemnation. In a moment of wisdom, Jesus removed the condemnation towards the woman working through the accusers, then he forgave her, because he took her condemnation on himself.

    GRACE in other words!
    Delight yourself in the LORD, And He shall give you the desires of your heart. . Psalms 37:4

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    Mad finds itself in the trash by applying simple logic


    Those people have no problems with thrashing around other beliefs- particularly Reformed- but nail themselves right on a cross if they receive the same treatment.

    They hijacked the Bible and made it into a message it simply is not, and that is why you don't see much beyond frivolous verse spamming with them. Nobody can read good, historical literature and still take MADism seriously.

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    Quote Originally Posted by musterion View Post
    What?
    He was born under the law, and identified himself as a man. That means that the law had a claim on him a soon as he was circumcised.
    He came through perfectly unscathed, and he took this perfect body, and offered it to God on the alter us.

    By his DEATH and RESURRECTION, not by His life.
    That's where our atonement is accomplished.
    Delight yourself in the LORD, And He shall give you the desires of your heart. . Psalms 37:4

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    Quote Originally Posted by andyc View Post
    He was born under the law, and identified himself as a man. That means that the law had a claim on him a soon as he was circumcised.
    He came through perfectly unscathed, and he took this perfect body, and offered it to God on the alter us.



    That's where our atonement is accomplished.

    And it had to be the offering of a Lamb without blemish.
    All Lives Matter --Marcus Sanford, youtube.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by andyc View Post
    Jesus was the one who fulfilled the law or our behalf.
    He took all of the condemnation everyone deserved on himself.
    At the cross.
    At the time of the adulterous woman, the cross had not taken place yet.

    Not to mention that Jesus Christ says that not one jot or title will pass from the law until heaven and earth pass. (Matt 5:18)

    And so obviously he couldn't stand by the law and uphold it's condemnation towards those who violated the law,
    Obviously He could not abide by their not following the law as instructed on how to conduct an accusation of adultery.

    Again, they were not asking Him about His personal opinion; they asked concerning what the law said (ie. OT Mosaic law).


    and forgive them at the same time. If he forgave,
    Jesus said He did not condemn her.
    He says nothing about "forgiving" her.
    Jesus could not have condemned her based on the way the inquiry was handled (it was not per the law).

    You keep adding the word "forgive" when the scripture does not say that.



    You won't be able to do it. So it would better for you to exit the thread to save face.
    Show in scripture where it says that Jesus forgave her of her sins.
    Why do you use words that scripture does not?

    We don't tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters exist.
    They already know monsters exist.
    We tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters can be killed.

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    There's no sign in the account that the woman was repentant of her sin, or that she even realized Who Christ is, any more than it says He pronounced her forgiven as an extension of grace vs not breaking jot or tittle of His Law.

    Too much reading into the incident that which the Text does not say. Just like the Pharisees did.
    "There is one thing worse than going to Hell. That would be going to Hell and having it be a surprise."
    Terence Mc Lean

    [most will be very surprised]


    Everyone who has not believed the Gospel of grace is not saved, no matter what else they believe or do.
    By that measure, how many professing Christians are on their way to the Lake of Fire?

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    Andy, TeT, and Crucible are unworthy of being spoken to. They are the "epitome" of "The Three Stooges" on TOL.

    They're a very strange combination of a Preterist, a Charismatic/Pentecostal and a Rabid Calvinist. Yet, they've combined their efforts to attack "The Grace Gospel."

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    The adulterous woman got off because there were no witnesses. Jewish Law was a lot like what Islam's is now- if there is no witness, then there is no prosecution. The Pharisees were overstepping their bounds.

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