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Thread: Did God Predestinate some to Hell/Wrath ?

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by patrick jane View Post
    Exactly, now we're gettin' somewhere b57 !!! But everyone has a chance to believe !!! It comes by hearing the word of God Romans 10:17 KJV -
    False statement. Rom 10:17 does not say everyone has a chance to believe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nanja View Post
    Right on Brother, it's only the Seed of Abraham to whom Christ was Kinsman Redeemer Heb. 2:16, His Seed, who are the Children /Sons of God, chosen of the Father in His Son Eph. 1:4-5.

    Gal. 3:16, 29
    16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
    29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.


    But the seed of the devil are condemned already, because they never had any relation to Christ whatsoever, and so they are prevented from believing in Him and shall permanently remain in an unregenerate state John 3:18, 36; 10:26.

    ~~~~
    Exactly!

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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    Those Christ died for are not subject to damnation, in fact they have been reconciled to God even while being enemies Rom 5:10
    What Romans 5:10 means is that reconciliation has been provided, but its not yours if you don't accept it. It would really be silly to believe that God imposes reconciliation on someone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    What Romans 5:10 means is that reconciliation has been provided, but its not yours if you don't accept it. It would really be silly to believe that God imposes reconciliation on someone.
    False teaching ! Reconciliation has been accomplished for them Christ died for !
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    False teaching ! Reconciliation has been accomplished for them Christ died for !
    So True!

    Yet Lost people always bring their works of the flesh into the equation.

    Rom. 8:7-8
    7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
    8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

    ~~~~
    My soul thirsts for God, the God Who Lives Forever:
    when shall I be brought in to see His Face? -Psalm 42:2

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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    False statement. Rom 10:17 does not say everyone has a chance to believe.
    Everybody that can hear or read has a chance to know Christ and be SAVED !!! God is great !!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nanja View Post
    So True!

    Yet Lost people always bring their works of the flesh into the equation.

    Rom. 8:7-8
    7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
    8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

    ~~~~
    Amen Sister!

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    Quote Originally Posted by patrick jane View Post
    Everybody that can hear or read has a chance to know Christ and be SAVED !!! God is great !!!
    False statement not found in scripture!

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    Gods purpose for making the reprobate/the vessels of wrath, is to show or demonstrate His Wrath against human sin. This is altogether humbling to the Vessels of Mercy, in that they realize that the Sovereign Potter had the right and power to have made them also Vessels of Wrath and to fit them for destruction, but He had chosen them in Christ to be Vessels of Mercy to And that he might make known the riches of his glory

    Eph 1:18

    The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

    See also Eph 3:16;Phil 4:19;Col 1:27
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    The vessels of wrath are to be fitted for destruction in the purpose of God.

    Its never Gods purpose for the vessels of wrath to be saved from the wrath to come, in fact its His design for them to fill up the measure of their sin. Jesus told some men this Matt 23:31-33

    31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.


    32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.


    33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?


    In Vs 32, Jesus is giving a command or an imperative to this wicked seed of the serpent, not to repent, but to continue in the wickedness of their fathers in killing the people of God, even Christ Himself, and gave them no hope at all of escaping the damnation of hell !

    No, they are not of those which Jesus came to call to repentance, but contrary, they must continue in hardheartedness and rebellion to fill up their measure being fitted for destruction, even damnation !
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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  18. #101
    Maranatha Nanja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    Gods purpose for making the reprobate/the vessels of wrath, is to show or demonstrate His Wrath against human sin. This is altogether humbling to the Vessels of Mercy, in that they realize that the Sovereign Potter had the right and power to have made them also Vessels of Wrath and to fit them for destruction, but He had chosen them in Christ to be Vessels of Mercy to And that he might make known the riches of his glory

    Eph 1:18

    The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

    See also Eph 3:16;Phil 4:19;Col 1:27

    Amen Brother, it was God's Eternal Purpose Eph. 3:11 to exclude the Vessels of Wrath from His Election of Grace Rom. 11:5,
    and so dealing with them based strictly according to His uncompromising Justice.

    So for the Vessels of Mercy, it is indeed very humbling to have been Chosen in union with Christ to have forgiveness of sins Eph 1:4-7, who Himself bare their sins Is. 53:11, Heb. 8:12.

    But in contrast, the Vessels of Wrath are left to bear the punishment for their own sins Rev. 21:8.

    ~~~~
    My soul thirsts for God, the God Who Lives Forever:
    when shall I be brought in to see His Face? -Psalm 42:2

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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    The answer to the question is an absolutely yes ! Many scriptures indicate that, if we receive them honestly. Heres one that teaches it by antithesis 1 Thess 5:9

    9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

    This statement presupposes that God has appointed some to wrath, that word appointed
    tithémi also means destined, to decree one to be subject to wrath,

    All whom God did not choose in Christ and to obtain Salvation by Him, He destined, appointed, decreed them to wrath. This is a work of God, and as it is written Acts 15:18

    18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
    What a terrible thing to believe about God.

    You are one step up from an atheist, which is not saying much.

    Atleast the atheist does not blasphemy God as you do, they just don't believe.

    But you believe that God is an unjust, unmerciful, unrighteous tyrant that delights in sending people to hell.

    You do not have saving faith. You cannot have saving faith and believe what you do about God.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nanja View Post
    Amen Brother, it was God's Eternal Purpose Eph. 3:11 to exclude the Vessels of Wrath from His Election of Grace Rom. 11:5,
    and so dealing with them based strictly according to His uncompromising Justice.

    So for the Vessels of Mercy, it is indeed very humbling to have been Chosen in union with Christ to have forgiveness of sins Eph 1:4-7, who Himself bare their sins Is. 53:11, Heb. 8:12.

    But in contrast, the Vessels of Wrath are left to bear the punishment for their own sins Rev. 21:8.

    ~~~~
    Exactly!

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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    The Two seed doctrine goes back to the beginning of world history Gen 3:15, and ]cain was a vessel of wrath, a child of the wicked one 1 Jn 3:12

    12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.

    Remember John just had written that the children of the devil become manifested 1 Jn 3:10

    10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

    Notice in the greek text:

    ἐν τούτῳ φανερά ἐστιν τὰ τέκνα τοῦ θεοῦ καὶ τὰ τέκνα τοῦ διαβόλου πᾶς ὁ μὴ ποιῶν δικαιοσύνην οὐκ ἔστιν ἐκ τοῦ θεοῦ καὶ ὁ μὴ ἀγαπῶν τὸν ἀδελφὸν αὐτοῦ

    There's the definite article before children tekna both times, The Children of God and The children of the devil, two separate, distinct, and definite groups

    The Children of God are redeemable, them Christ came to die for and gather Jn 11:51-52

    51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;


    52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

    καὶ οὐχ ὑπὲρ τοῦ ἔθνους μόνον ἀλλ᾽ ἵνα καὶ τὰ τέκνα τοῦ θεοῦ τὰ διεσκορπισμένα συναγάγῃ εἰς ἕν

    How are they gathered and manifested ? By Faith in Jesus Christ there kinsman redeemer Rom 8:16


    The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

    Gal 3:26

    For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

    You see, if we are of the redeemed seed of Gods children, we receive the Spirit, which gives us the fruit of Faith Gal 5:22, so manifesting us as the children of God , Vessels of Mercy. However those of mankind that live and die in unbelief manifest themselves as the children of the devil, vessels of wrath being fitted for destruction !

    Amen, and all the Redeemed Seed of Christ are the Seed of Abraham [jew and gentile], they are one and the same Gal. 3:16, 29:
    The Vessels of Mercy Rom. 9:23 Chosen in Christ and predestinated to the Adoption of Children/Sons Eph. 1:4-5.

    So in time they shall receive the Adoption of Sons by God sending the Spirit of His Son into their hearts.

    Gal. 4:4-7
    4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
    5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
    6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
    7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

    Rom. 8:14-17
    14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
    15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
    16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
    17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.


    But the Vessels of Wrath shall not be Given Faith to believe in Christ. For they were condemned already.

    John 3:18, 36
    18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
    36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

    ~~~~
    My soul thirsts for God, the God Who Lives Forever:
    when shall I be brought in to see His Face? -Psalm 42:2

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    Quote Originally Posted by patrick jane View Post
    But everyone has a chance to believe
    That is categorically false.

    And
    Suppose Islam was the true religion, what are your odds of dropping Christianity? 'A chance' is just an empty sentiment.

    Therefore,
    predestination-- God's providence tightens and loosens the door.

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