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Thread: Did God Predestinate some to Hell/Wrath ?

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    Maranatha Nanja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    This is a terrible thread.

    To teach that God hides the Gospel from some so that he can send them to hell is to teach that God is an unjust, unmerciful, unrighteous tyrant.

    Who in the world could possibly have faith in that kind of a God? The answer is that you can't.


    God's Elect can, but you can't!

    The Gospel is hid from you! 2 Cor. 4:3-4!


    Nanja
    God deliberately created this non-elect portion of mankind be be destroyed Prov. 16:4; Job 21:30 and has the Power to do so.
    Yet there are many in false religion who strive with God in this matter Is. 45:9,
    that this out of the character of God.

    But they don't know the True God, and so neither do they understand that God did not love these reprobate creatures He Created, nor did He send His Beloved Son into the world to save them from their sins.

    Job 23:13-14
    13 But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth.
    14 For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him.

    Therefore, Eternal God, Creator of Heaven and Earth, whatsoever He Desires, He Performs it!
    Last edited by Nanja; October 5th, 2016 at 05:36 PM.
    My soul thirsts for God, the God Who Lives Forever:
    when shall I be brought in to see His Face? -Psalm 42:2

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    TOL Legend beloved57's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nanja View Post
    God's Elect can, but you can't!

    The Gospel is hid from you! 2 Cor. 4:3-4!


    Nanja


    Yet there are many in false religion who strive with God in this matter Is. 45:9,
    that this out of the character of God.

    But they don't know the True God, and so neither do they understand that God did not love these reprobate creatures He Created, nor did He send His Beloved Son into the world to save them from their sins.

    Job 23:13-14
    13 But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth.
    14 For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him.

    Therefore, Eternal God, Creator of Heaven and Earth, whatsoever He Desires, He Performs it!
    Amen Sister!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    This is a terrible thread.

    To teach that God hides the Gospel from some so that he can send them to hell is to teach that God is an unjust, unmerciful, unrighteous tyrant.

    Who in the world could possibly have faith in that kind of a God? The answer is that you can't.
    You hate God and His Truth!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nanja View Post
    Yep, forever!





    Exactly, and I had in the past added to my study notes on this scripture, a very important spiritual tidbit of info you had provided, being that the word for the verb appointed is in the aorist tense [a past action] indicating a passive voice meaning they did not appoint themselves to disobey [i.e. by their own so-called freewill] but someone else appointed them to disobedience, which only God has the Authority to do so with His Creation Dan. 4:35.


    Job 23:13-14
    13 But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth.
    14 For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him.

    ~~~~
    Ok!

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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    You hate God and His Truth!
    You hate your god. You preach that sinners end up lost in their sins

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    Quote Originally Posted by patrick jane View Post
    You hate your god. You preach that sinners end up lost in their sins

    There are two types of sinners.

    Those whom Christ died for John 10:11,15; Rom. 9:23; Mat. 25:33-34,
    and those whom Christ did not die for John 3:18, 36; Rom 9:22; Mat. 25:41.

    ~~~~
    My soul thirsts for God, the God Who Lives Forever:
    when shall I be brought in to see His Face? -Psalm 42:2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nanja View Post
    There are two types of sinners.

    Those whom Christ died for John 10:11,15; Rom. 9:23; Mat. 25:33-34,
    and those whom Christ did not die for John 3:18, 36; Rom 9:22; Mat. 25:41.

    ~~~~
    Exactly, He died for ALL who believe !!! Good job

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    This is a terrible thread.

    To teach that God hides the Gospel from some so that he can send them to hell is to teach that God is an unjust, unmerciful, unrighteous tyrant.

    Who in the world could possibly have faith in that kind of a God? The answer is that you can't.
    That's why it's a cult following

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    Quote Originally Posted by patrick jane View Post
    Exactly, He died for ALL who believe !!! Good job
    Sure, but He didn't die for them that never believe because they were not of His Sheep John 10:26!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nanja View Post
    There are two types of sinners.

    Those whom Christ died for John 10:11,15; Rom. 9:23; Mat. 25:33-34,
    and those whom Christ did not die for John 3:18, 36; Rom 9:22; Mat. 25:41.

    ~~~~
    Amen Sister!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nanja View Post
    There are two types of sinners.

    Those whom Christ died for John 10:11,15; Rom. 9:23; Mat. 25:33-34,
    and those whom Christ did not die for John 3:18, 36; Rom 9:22; Mat. 25:41.

    ~~~~
    Yes Sister you are right, two types of sinners in Gods Eternal Purpose, Vessels of Wrath, and Vessels of Mercy. Now this momentous and most despised Truth has been seen and Illustrated throughout world History, back to the beginning with the most malign truth in the bible, the two seeds, note Gods words Gen 3:15

    15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

    This is Two seeds, of the Women and of the serpent, which is the devil. One of these seeds is Loved by God, and the other is hated, one chosen the other rejected. God in His eternal purpose had mercy in store for one, wrath for the other. God had purposed to redeem one through the sacrifice of Christ Isa 53:10

    10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

    1 Pet 1:18-20

    18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;


    19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:


    20 Who verily was foreordained[for your redemption] before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

    And the other seed, He purposed not to redeem, but to be made, created for the purpose of destruction Rom 9:22


    21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to makeone vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?


    22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

    The word make is the grk word poieō which means to create, its used here in Matt 19:4


    And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,

    And just as God had an eternal Purpose in making male and female, so did He in making vessels of wrath and mercy. The one seed He had made for to be " afore prepared unto glory" which is the vessels of mercy, the seed of the women, and the other seed made to be "the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:"

    The one seed is the Children of God, the other seed, the children of the devil or the wicked one Matt 13:38

    The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;[not eligible for redemption]

    1Jn 3:10

    In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

    The children of the devil are not eligible for redemption because they bare no relationship to the Kinsman Redeemer the Lord Jesus Christ. In order to be redeemed, the redeemer must be kin to us, Christ has no kinship with the seed of the devil, the children of the devil.
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Cain was a child of the devil, a Vessel of wrath

    The Two seed doctrine goes back to the beginning of world history Gen 3:15, and cain was a vessel of wrath, a child of the wicked one 1 Jn 3:12

    12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.

    Remember John just had written that the children of the devil become manifested 1 Jn 3:10

    10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

    Notice in the greek text:

    ἐν τούτῳ φανερά ἐστιν τὰ τέκνα τοῦ θεοῦ καὶ τὰ τέκνα τοῦ διαβόλου πᾶς ὁ μὴ ποιῶν δικαιοσύνην οὐκ ἔστιν ἐκ τοῦ θεοῦ καὶ ὁ μὴ ἀγαπῶν τὸν ἀδελφὸν αὐτοῦ

    There's the definite article before children tekna both times, The Children of God and The children of the devil, two separate, distinct, and definite groups

    The Children of God are redeemable, them Christ came to die for and gather Jn 11:51-52

    51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;


    52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

    καὶ οὐχ ὑπὲρ τοῦ ἔθνους μόνον ἀλλ᾽ ἵνα καὶ τὰ τέκνα τοῦ θεοῦ τὰ διεσκορπισμένα συναγάγῃ εἰς ἕν

    How are they gathered and manifested ? By Faith in Jesus Christ there kinsman redeemer Rom 8:16


    The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

    Gal 3:26

    For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

    You see, if we are of the redeemed seed of Gods children, we receive the Spirit, which gives us the fruit of Faith Gal 5:22, so manifesting us as the children of God , Vessels of Mercy. However those of mankind that live and die in unbelief manifest themselves as the children of the devil, vessels of wrath being fitted for destruction !
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    The children of the devil are not eligible for redemption because they bare no relationship to the Kinsman Redeemer the Lord Jesus Christ. In order to be redeemed, the redeemer must be kin to us, Christ has no kinship with the seed of the devil, the children of the devil.

    Right on Brother, it's only the Seed of Abraham to whom Christ was Kinsman Redeemer Heb. 2:16, His Seed, who are the Children /Sons of God, chosen of the Father in His Son Eph. 1:4-5.

    Gal. 3:16, 29
    16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
    29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.


    But the seed of the devil are condemned already, because they never had any relation to Christ whatsoever, and so they are prevented from believing in Him and shall permanently remain in an unregenerate state John 3:18, 36; 10:26.

    ~~~~
    My soul thirsts for God, the God Who Lives Forever:
    when shall I be brought in to see His Face? -Psalm 42:2

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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    Sure, but He didn't die for them that never believe because they were not of His Sheep John 10:26!
    Exactly, now we're gettin' somewhere b57 !!! But everyone has a chance to believe !!! It comes by hearing the word of God Romans 10:17 KJV -

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nonon View Post
    I believe everyone is subject to damnation. So everyone is 'predestined' to be condemned under the law. Likewise all people are 'predestined' to salvation in Christ Jesus if they repent and believe in the gospel. When Jesus was baptized He took up the worlds sin and died on the cross where sin was judged. This is a gift given freely to all men. The 'elect' are those who repent and believe. The elect are referring to those who accept his gift.

    God may know EVERYTHING as he is omniscient and all powerful. But that doesn't imply he's controlling us like puppets.
    Those Christ died for are not subject to damnation, in fact they have been reconciled to God even while being enemies Rom 5:10

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