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Thread: Did God Predestinate some to Hell/Wrath ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ladyrepublican View Post
    God being omniscient does not necessitate Him being the cause of mankind's decisions. God has foreknowledge, but that in no way means He makes man sin. He is completely just and wise and has no sinful quality at all. A just God would not create a creature with the specific intent to send him to damnation precluding that creature's own responsibility. God knows if I'll go to heaven or hell, but He gave each of us something called choice. He wanted us to choose to serve him rather than being created with that sole purpose and no choice, like the angels were. God knows if I'm getting ready to fall off a cliff, but it doesn't mean He pushed me.

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    Invalid comments not found in scripture !
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Over 3000 post club beameup's Avatar
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    The LORD has made everything for His own purpose,
    Even the wicked for the day of doom. - Proverbs 16:4

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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    Gods reprobation of men, was deliberate and its active unto the vessels of wrath Rom 9:20-22

    20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?


    21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?


    22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

    Its deliberate, in that just as a potter deliberately makes a pot for the purpose He wants it to serve, So God contrived within Himself to make some men for the purpose of destruction.

    God is active in that He actually fits them for destruction :


    What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

    The word fitted
    katartizō means:

    to fit out, equip, put in order, arrange, adjust

    The word also in the greek is in the passive voice, meaning that they are being fitted for destruction, they are being acted upon, so God is the active primary force.

    Some may argue that its in the middle voice, and that would also be correct, because since God has all Power, men cannot but comply with the purpose of God and fit themselves for destruction at the same time, so they are culpable !

    Absolutely agree!

    God deliberately created this non-elect portion of mankind be be destroyed Prov. 16:4; Job 21:30 and has the Power to do so.

    Yet there are many in false religion who strive with God in this matter Is. 45:9,
    that this out of the character of God.

    But they don't know the True God, and so neither do they understand that God did not love these reprobate creatures He Created, nor did He send His Beloved Son into the world to save them from their sins.


    Job 23:13-14
    13 But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth.
    14 For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him.

    Therefore, Eternal God, Creator of Heaven and Earth, whatsoever He Desires, He Performs it!

    ~~~~~
    My soul thirsts for God, the God Who Lives Forever:
    when shall I be brought in to see His Face? -Psalm 42:2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nanja View Post
    Absolutely agree!

    God deliberately created this non-elect portion of mankind be be destroyed Prov. 16:4; Job 21:30 and has the Power to do so.

    Yet there are many in false religion who strive with God in this matter Is. 45:9,
    that this out of the character of God.

    But they don't know the True God, and so neither do they understand that God did not love these reprobate creatures He Created, nor did He send His Beloved Son into the world to save them from their sins.


    Job 23:13-14
    13 But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth.
    14 For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him.

    Therefore, Eternal God, Creator of Heaven and Earth, whatsoever He Desires, He Performs it!

    ~~~~~
    Bless You !
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    Bless You !

    Bless You Too !

    ~~~~
    My soul thirsts for God, the God Who Lives Forever:
    when shall I be brought in to see His Face? -Psalm 42:2

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    Being of the Vessels of Wrath, them whom God purposely created to fit them for destruction, its the reasonable and necessary consequence of God having elected/chosen some people in Christ before the foundation of the world Eph 1:4, to be Vessels of Mercy. God did predetermine before the foundation to create some people outside of the Electing Love in Christ; He had determined not to write their names in the Lambs Book of Life, hence to never be redeemed by His redeeming blood 1 Pet 1:18-20

    18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
    19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
    20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    No they choose for themselves by not accepting Jesus as Lord!
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

    Jim Elliot

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    Predestination is not the same thing as Fate.

    Did you know that destiny vs. fate was already an argument in 1st century Judaism? The devout Jews accused other not-so-devout Jews of apostasy because they adopted the Greek concept of fate, over the traditional Jewish concept of predestination.

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    They are appointed to disobey the Gospel !

    The Gospel of Christ, His Person and Work for His Chosen People, and all that it entails and effects, what it accomplishes, was not in Gods Eternal Purpose for all to believe or obey, for God had appointed many to disobey it, not believe it 1 Pet 2:8

    And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.



    And what is the outcome of disobeying the Gospel of God ? Paul writes here 2 Thess 1:6-9

    Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
    7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
    8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
    9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

    Thats right, God had appointed them to this disobedience, to obey not the Gospel. Notice Vs 9 they shall be punished with everlasting destruction. The word destruction is derived from the very same word destruction in Rom 9:22

    22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:


    It has to do with eternal death, ruin and misery ! God appointed the vessels of wrath unto this end !
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    They are appointed to disobey the Gospel !

    The Gospel of Christ, His Person and Work for His Chosen People, and all that it entails and effects, what it accomplishes, was not in Gods Eternal Purpose for all to believe or obey, for God had appointed many to disobey it, not believe it 1 Pet 2:8

    [FONT="]And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.



    And what is the outcome of disobeying the Gospel of God ? Paul writes here 2 Thess 1:6-9

    [/FONT]
    [FONT="]Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;[/FONT]
    [FONT="]7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,[/FONT]
    [FONT="]8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:[/FONT]
    [FONT="]9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

    Thats right, God had appointed them to this disobedience, to obey not the Gospel. Notice Vs 9 they shall be punished with everlasting destruction. The word destruction is derived from the very same word destruction in Rom 9:22

    22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:


    It has to do with eternal death, ruin and misery ! God appointed the vessels of wrath unto this end ![/FONT]

    Amen Brother, He absolutely did appoint them 1 Pet. 2:8 to disobedience!

    And also, as you have pointed out, the destruction they have been appointed to is everlasting 2 Thes. 1:9;
    not just annihilation as many in false religion teach.


    Luke 12:4-5
    4 And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.
    5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.


    The vessels of wrath Rom. 9:22 God predetermined to be condemned to everlasting fire.

    But the Vessels of Mercy Rom. 9:23 God appointed to Eternal Life Mat. 25:41, 46.

    ~~~~
    My soul thirsts for God, the God Who Lives Forever:
    when shall I be brought in to see His Face? -Psalm 42:2

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    Nanja

    And also, as you have pointed out, the destruction they have been appointed to is everlasting 2 Thes. 1:9;
    not just annihilation as many in false religion teach.
    Yes it's everlasting, forever!


    The vessels of wrath Rom. 9:22 God predetermined to be condemned to everlasting fire.
    Yes! Also, when Jesus told his disciples to preach the Gospel to every creature, it was so that some would hear it and believe not, because they were appointed to stumble at the word 1 Pet 2:8 !He sends them the Gospel for that purpose.

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    God did not predestine people to Hell.

    He made enough room for the people He foresaw going.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crucible View Post
    God did not predestine people to Hell.

    He made enough room for the people He foresaw going.
    Scripture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post


    Yes it's everlasting, forever!

    Yep, forever!


    Yes! Also, when Jesus told his disciples to preach the Gospel to every creature, it was so that some would hear it and believe not, because they were appointed to stumble at the word 1 Pet 2:8 !He sends them the Gospel for that purpose.

    Exactly, and I had in the past added to my study notes on this scripture, a very important spiritual tidbit of info you had provided, being that the word for the verb appointed is in the aorist tense [a past action] indicating a passive voice meaning they did not appoint themselves to disobey [i.e. by their own so-called freewill] but someone else appointed them to disobedience, which only God has the Authority to do so with His Creation Dan. 4:35.


    Job 23:13-14
    13 But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth.
    14 For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him.

    ~~~~
    My soul thirsts for God, the God Who Lives Forever:
    when shall I be brought in to see His Face? -Psalm 42:2

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    This is a terrible thread.

    To teach that God hides the Gospel from some so that he can send them to hell is to teach that God is an unjust, unmerciful, unrighteous tyrant.

    Who in the world could possibly have faith in that kind of a God? The answer is that you can't.

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