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Thread: Did God Predestinate some to Hell/Wrath ?

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    TOL Legend beloved57's Avatar
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    Did God Predestinate some to Hell/Wrath ?

    The answer to the question is an absolutely yes ! Many scriptures indicate that, if we receive them honestly. Heres one that teaches it by antithesis 1 Thess 5:9

    9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

    This statement presupposes that God has appointed some to wrath, that word appointed
    tithémi also means destined, to decree one to be subject to wrath,

    All whom God did not choose in Christ and to obtain Salvation by Him, He destined, appointed, decreed them to wrath. This is a work of God, and as it is written Acts 15:18

    18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Another scripture which I believe teaches by antithesis that some are predestined to Hell/Wrath is:

    John 10:11, 15
    11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
    15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.


    But those which are not Christ's Sheep, the non-elect or goats, He did not lay down His life for.

    Therefore they are cursed, condemned already John 3:18, and the wrath of God abideth on them John 3:36.


    Mat. 25:32-33, 41,46
    32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
    33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
    41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
    46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

    ~~~~~
    My soul thirsts for God, the God Who Lives Forever:
    when shall I be brought in to see His Face? -Psalm 42:2

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    Silver Member Clete's Avatar
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    Only Calvinists who are flatly ignorant of Calvinist doctrine fail to charge God with this sort of injustice.

    It isn't merely that Calvinism teaches that God sends people to Hell before they've done anything to deserve it, it teaches that God did so for no reason at all other than that it pleased Him to do so.

    Calvin's own words state it most clearly...

    “God is moved to mercy for no other reason but that he wills to be merciful.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 22, Paragraph 8)

    “Therefore, those whom God passes over, he condemns; and this he does for no other reason than that he wills to exclude them from the inheritance which he predestines for his own children.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christia/n Religion, Book 3, Chapter 23, Paragraph 1)

    “We cannot assign any reason for his bestowing mercy on his people, but just as it so pleases him, neither can we have any reason for his reprobating others but his will.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 22, Paragraph 11)

    "All are not created on equal terms, but some are preordained to eternal life, others to eternal damnation; and, accordingly, as each has been created for one or other of these ends, we say that he has been predestinated to life or to death. (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion Book 5, Chapter 21, paragraph 5)

    As for the bible. It obviously does NOT teach this foolishness about God. What the Bible does teach about God is the He is righteous and that His judgements are just. The only way to get Calvinism out of the text of Scripture is to bring the doctrine to the text. The above two posts stand as an excellent example of exactly that. The entire system is one huge example of biblical eisegesis.

    Here's the bottom line.

    The bible teaches that God is just. That much is not in dispute. We can, therefore, say that either Calvinism is false or the bible is false. If the bible is false then the whole of Christianity, including Calvinism, is false. Either way, Calvinism is false. Calvinism cannot survive the simple notion that God is just.

    Resting in Him,
    Clete
    Last edited by Clete; September 13th, 2016 at 06:28 AM.

    "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clete View Post
    Only Calvinists who are flatly ignorant of Calvinist doctrine fail to charge God with this sort of injustice.

    It isn't merely that Calvinism teaches that God sends people to Hell before they've done anything to deserve it, it teaches that God did so for no reason at all other than that it pleased Him to do so.

    Calvin's own words state it most clearly...

    “God is moved to mercy for no other reason but that he wills to be merciful.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 22, Paragraph 8)

    “Therefore, those whom God passes over, he condemns; and this he does for no other reason than that he wills to exclude them from the inheritance which he predestines for his own children.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christia/n Religion, Book 3, Chapter 23, Paragraph 1)

    “We cannot assign any reason for his bestowing mercy on his people, but just as it so pleases him, neither can we have any reason for his reprobating others but his will.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 22, Paragraph 11)

    "All are not created on equal terms, but some are preordained to eternal life, others to eternal damnation; and, accordingly, as each has been created for one or other of these ends, we say that he has been predestinated to life or to death. (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion Book 5, Chapter 21, paragraph 5)

    As for the bible. It obviously does NOT teach this foolishness about God. What the Bible does teach about God is the He is righteous and that His judements are just. The only way to get Calvinism out of the text of Scripture is to bring the doctrine to the text. The above two post stand as an excellent example of exactly that. The entire system is one huge example of biblical eisegesis.

    Here's the bottom line.

    The bible teaches that God is just. That much is not in dispute. We can, therefore, say that either Calvinism is false or the bible is false. If the bible is false then the whole of Christianity, including Calvinism, is false. Either way, Calvinism is false. Calvinism cannot survive the simple notion that God is just.

    Resting in Him,
    Clete
    As I have stated a myriad of times on TOL, Calvinists changed the Character and Intent of the God of the Bible and created their own god and their own gospel. No doubt with the help of Satan they have created a counterfeit belief system. B57 and Nanja are "Hyper-Calvinists." The Calvinist god is not by any means the God of the Bible.

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    Calvin himself was a disgusting, murdering, sadistic, egomaniacal, tyrant in the first degree. Check out his history. Calvin, no more knew the true Gospel than I was Abe Lincolns best friend.

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    If God desires all men to be saved can the answer to the OP only be, NO!

    As with Adam, the freewill of man will be that which will determine his destiny. . . even in his 'fallen' condition.. . ."This I lay before you life and death, choose which you will serve". . . . Joshua. Did he not speak for God?
    "That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;" Philippians 2:15 (KJV)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cross Reference View Post
    If God desires all men to be saved can the answer to the OP only be, NO!

    As with Adam, the freewill of man that will determine his destiny. . . even in his 'fallen' condition.
    B57 and Nanja believe that God creates ALL sin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grosnick Marowbe View Post
    B57 and Nanja believe that God creates ALL sin.
    Only LOVE can create. LOVE is an absolute and cannot change its disposition, therefore it all falls back upon God who has set in man the image of Himself to argue it out in his flesh, i.e., 'The created freewill, set in your flesh, will determine your allegiance to Me. That is what I want and that is what I must have that My purposes set in you come to eternal fruition'. Signed . . . God the Father.
    "That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;" Philippians 2:15 (KJV)

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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    The answer to the question is an absolutely yes ! Many scriptures indicate that, if we receive them honestly. Heres one that teaches it by antithesis 1 Thess 5:9

    9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

    This statement presupposes that God has appointed some to wrath, that word appointed
    tithémi also means destined, to decree one to be subject to wrath,

    All whom God did not choose in Christ and to obtain Salvation by Him, He destined, appointed, decreed them to wrath. This is a work of God, and as it is written Acts 15:18

    18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

    The only ones that are going to hell are those like yourself that have rejected God's great free gift of salvation that has been provided by Jesus Christ.

    "For God so loved the WORLD, that he gave his only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER that believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" John 3:16.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    The only ones that are going to hell are those like yourself that have rejected God's great free gift of salvation that has been provided by Jesus Christ.

    "For God so loved the WORLD, that he gave his only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER that believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" John 3:16.
    Rabbit trail !
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cross Reference View Post
    If God desires all men to be saved can the answer to the OP only be, NO!

    As with Adam, the freewill of man will be that which will determine his destiny. . . even in his 'fallen' condition.. . ."This I lay before you life and death, choose which you will serve". . . . Joshua. Did he not speak for God?
    Rabbit trail !
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nanja View Post
    Another scripture which I believe teaches by antithesis that some are predestined to Hell/Wrath is:

    John 10:11, 15
    11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
    15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.


    But those which are not Christ's Sheep, the non-elect or goats, He did not lay down His life for.

    Therefore they are cursed, condemned already John 3:18, and the wrath of God abideth on them John 3:36.


    Mat. 25:32-33, 41,46
    32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
    33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
    41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
    46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

    ~~~~~
    I can see that I agree !
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    I can see that I agree !

    Amen!


    ~~~~~
    My soul thirsts for God, the God Who Lives Forever:
    when shall I be brought in to see His Face? -Psalm 42:2

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    Silver Member Clete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grosnick Marowbe View Post
    As I have stated a myriad of times on TOL, Calvinists changed the Character and Intent of the God of the Bible and created their own god and their own gospel. No doubt with the help of Satan they have created a counterfeit belief system. B57 and Nanja are "Hyper-Calvinists." The Calvinist god is not by any means the God of the Bible.
    If by "hyper-Calvinists" you mean consistent Calvinists, I agree with you. I, for one, like it when people are not afraid of the logical implications of their beliefs. People who are consistent, as evil as they might be, have at least a portion of their mind intact. It's like I can see a flicker of light somewhere in the darkness of their mind and it causes me to respect them more than I would otherwise.

    Ayn Rand was a terrific example of this. That woman was nothing if she wasn't fearlessly consistent. She didn't give a rat's rear-end what the consequences were or where her mind was going to take her, she just went where her obviously brilliant mind took her and stood there, proud as could be. Of course, Rand, even as a strident, God hating atheist, was far closer to being right about the nature of existence than B57 and Nanja are, and neither of them can hold a candle to Rand's genius level mind, but a similar ruthless courage of their convictions seems to exists, which strikes me as a lining of silver around what is otherwise a very dark cloud indeed.

    Resting in Him,
    Clete

    "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clete View Post
    If by "hyper-Calvinists" you mean consistent Calvinists, I agree with you. I, for one, like it when people are not afraid of the logical implications of their beliefs. People who are consistent, as evil as they might be, have at least a portion of their mind intact. It's like I can see a flicker of light somewhere in the darkness of their mind and it causes me to respect them more than I would otherwise.

    Ayn Rand was a terrific example of this. That woman was nothing if she wasn't fearlessly consistent. She didn't give a rat's rear-end what the consequences were or where her mind was going to take her, she just went where her obviously brilliant mind took her and stood there, proud as could be. Of course, Rand, even as a strident, God hating atheist, was far closer to being right about the nature of existence than B57 and Nanja are, and neither of them can hold a candle to Rand's genius level mind, but a similar ruthless courage of their convictions seems to exists, which strikes me as a lining of silver around what is otherwise a very dark cloud indeed.

    Resting in Him,
    Clete
    B57 has admitted that God is responsible for ALL sin. He's a fanatical hyper-Calvinist. Nanja follows him.

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