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View Poll Results: Are There Saints In Heaven?

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Thread: Are there Saints In Heaven? Poll Question

  1. #1
    Silver Member patrick jane's Avatar
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    Are there Saints In Heaven? Poll Question

    Do you believe there are saints in heaven? All of them? Some of them? What about prophets in heaven?


    Matthew 27:52-53 KJV -
    1 Corinthians 15:1-2 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV -


    Colossians 1:13-14 KJV - Colossians 1:15-16 KJV - Colossians 1:17-18 KJV -

    Colossians 1:19-20 KJV - Colossians 1:21-22 KJV - Colossians 1:23 KJV -

    Colossians 1:25-26 KJV 27, 28, 29 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Ephesians 1:12-13, 14 -



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  3. #2
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    Revelation 6:9-10 KJV -
    1 Corinthians 15:1-2 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV -


    Colossians 1:13-14 KJV - Colossians 1:15-16 KJV - Colossians 1:17-18 KJV -

    Colossians 1:19-20 KJV - Colossians 1:21-22 KJV - Colossians 1:23 KJV -

    Colossians 1:25-26 KJV 27, 28, 29 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Ephesians 1:12-13, 14 -



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  5. #3
    Silver Member patrick jane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by patrick jane View Post
    Revelation 6:9-10 KJV -
    Revelation 5:8 KJV - Revelation 8:4 KJV -
    1 Corinthians 15:1-2 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV -


    Colossians 1:13-14 KJV - Colossians 1:15-16 KJV - Colossians 1:17-18 KJV -

    Colossians 1:19-20 KJV - Colossians 1:21-22 KJV - Colossians 1:23 KJV -

    Colossians 1:25-26 KJV 27, 28, 29 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Ephesians 1:12-13, 14 -



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    Silver Member patrick jane's Avatar
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    http://www.catholic.com/tracts/the-i...-of-the-saints


    Thus the
    saints in heaven offer to God the prayers of the saints on earth. .... Otherwise there would be no remembrance of them at the altar of God
    1 Corinthians 15:1-2 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV -


    Colossians 1:13-14 KJV - Colossians 1:15-16 KJV - Colossians 1:17-18 KJV -

    Colossians 1:19-20 KJV - Colossians 1:21-22 KJV - Colossians 1:23 KJV -

    Colossians 1:25-26 KJV 27, 28, 29 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Ephesians 1:12-13, 14 -



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  9. #5
    Silver Member patrick jane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by patrick jane View Post
    http://www.catholic.com/tracts/the-i...-of-the-saints


    Thus the
    saints in heaven offer to God the prayers of the saints on earth. .... Otherwise there would be no remembrance of them at the altar of God
    Not only do those in heaven pray with us, they also pray for us. In the book of Revelation, John sees that "the twenty-four elders [the leaders of the people of God in heaven] fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints" (Rev. 5:8). Thus the saints in heaven offer to God the prayers of the saints on earth
    1 Corinthians 15:1-2 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV -


    Colossians 1:13-14 KJV - Colossians 1:15-16 KJV - Colossians 1:17-18 KJV -

    Colossians 1:19-20 KJV - Colossians 1:21-22 KJV - Colossians 1:23 KJV -

    Colossians 1:25-26 KJV 27, 28, 29 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Ephesians 1:12-13, 14 -



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  11. #6
    Silver Member patrick jane's Avatar
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    Revelation 4:4 KJV - Revelation 4:10 KJV - Revelation 4:11 KJV -

    When do the 24 elders arrive in heaven? Are they there now?
    1 Corinthians 15:1-2 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV -


    Colossians 1:13-14 KJV - Colossians 1:15-16 KJV - Colossians 1:17-18 KJV -

    Colossians 1:19-20 KJV - Colossians 1:21-22 KJV - Colossians 1:23 KJV -

    Colossians 1:25-26 KJV 27, 28, 29 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Ephesians 1:12-13, 14 -



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  13. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by patrick jane View Post
    Revelation 4:4 KJV - Revelation 4:10 KJV - Revelation 4:11 KJV -

    When do the 24 elders arrive in heaven? Are they there now?
    Bump - VOTE !
    1 Corinthians 15:1-2 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV -


    Colossians 1:13-14 KJV - Colossians 1:15-16 KJV - Colossians 1:17-18 KJV -

    Colossians 1:19-20 KJV - Colossians 1:21-22 KJV - Colossians 1:23 KJV -

    Colossians 1:25-26 KJV 27, 28, 29 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Ephesians 1:12-13, 14 -



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    Over 2000 post club Rosenritter's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by patrick jane
    So, it's only AFTER the rapture and 2nd Coming that anybody is in heaven? Who are the 24 elders and what are they doing in heaven?

    That is what is laid out for us in scripture, according to the gospel as preached by Paul, and consistent with what we are told throughout the Hebrew scriptures about the nature of death. It also agrees with what Jesus used as a proof of the resurrection to the Sadducees, where as "existing in heaven after death" would contradict his own proof.


    What are the twenty-four elders? I could also ask what the four beasts are that are before His throne. They are part of a vision, but I think it likely that they represent certain angels or types of angels. Why are there only twenty-four elders and only four beasts? The number is probably either chosen or symbolic.

    Revelation 5:8-11 KJV
    (8) And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
    (9) And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
    (10) And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
    (11) And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;

    Notice that the beasts and the elders both sing this song. If the elders must be human saints then by the same logic the beasts must be also. But the elders and the beasts can both be types of angels without requiring any contradiction from previous scripture.

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    Tell me, do the words of Christ have any significance on this question? I've already shown that the gospel as told by Paul precludes any saint being in heaven before Christ's return and our resurrection.

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    Quote Originally Posted by patrick jane View Post
    Not only do those in heaven pray with us, they also pray for us. In the book of Revelation, John sees that "the twenty-four elders [the leaders of the people of God in heaven] fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints" (Rev. 5:8). Thus the saints in heaven offer to God the prayers of the saints on earth
    I am not persuaded by Catholic tradition. I could be persuaded by scripture.

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    Fiddle Dee Dee Tambora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    Tell me, do the words of Christ have any significance on this question? I've already shown that the gospel as told by Paul precludes any saint being in heaven before Christ's return and our resurrection.
    OK.
    So where did Moses and Elijah come from when they appeared with Christ? (Matthew 17:3)

    Proverbs 18:17 He that is first in his own cause seemeth just; but his neighbour cometh and searcheth him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tambora View Post
    OK.
    So where did Moses and Elijah come from when they appeared with Christ? (Matthew 17:3)

    Matthew 17:9 KJV
    (9) And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

    They were elements of the vision. However, if they were not elements of a vision, then Moses and Elias could have been raised from the dead for their appearance and laid back to rest afterwards. However, considering that the characters of Moses and Elias are also symbols (Moses and the prophets) I am inclined to believed Jesus in Matthew 17:9 when he called their experience a vision.

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    For the record, I am using the term "saints" to mean those that belong to God, as used in both OId and New Testaments, rather than by the Roman Catholic honorific reserved for certain Christians.Saints can be living here and now, and they are raised at Christ's return. Examples below:

    Acts 9:32 KJV
    (32) And it came to pass, as Peter passed throughout all quarters, he came down also to the saints which dwelt at Lydda.

    1 Thessalonians 3:13 KJV
    (13) To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    Matthew 17:9 KJV
    (9) And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

    They were elements of the vision. However, if they were not elements of a vision, then Moses and Elias could have been raised from the dead for their appearance and laid back to rest afterwards. However, considering that the characters of Moses and Elias are also symbols (Moses and the prophets) I am inclined to believed Jesus in Matthew 17:9 when he called their experience a vision.
    Thanks.
    I'm not sure that using the word 'vision' makes it something that did not actually happen.
    Or perhaps it was a vision of something that would take place at a later time. (Such as Paul's vision Acts 9:12)

    Proverbs 18:17 He that is first in his own cause seemeth just; but his neighbour cometh and searcheth him.

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  29. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    I am not persuaded by Catholic tradition. I could be persuaded by scripture.
    Over a billion Catholics believe there are saints in heaven now -
    1 Corinthians 15:1-2 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV -


    Colossians 1:13-14 KJV - Colossians 1:15-16 KJV - Colossians 1:17-18 KJV -

    Colossians 1:19-20 KJV - Colossians 1:21-22 KJV - Colossians 1:23 KJV -

    Colossians 1:25-26 KJV 27, 28, 29 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Ephesians 1:12-13, 14 -



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