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Thread: It's "Catholic Church" not "RCC"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cruciform View Post
    Addressed HERE, HERE, HERE, and HERE. And don't forget THIS and THIS as well.


    Already answered and corrected.


    Addressed HERE and HERE.


    Simply incorrect. See THIS and THIS.

    And regarding Tyndale, see THIS and THIS.

    The RCC has been quit good at hiding the facts of their murderous inquisitions, but not good enough.

    Inquisitions of the RCC - www.mtc.org/inquis.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Old man View Post
    The RCC has been quit good at hiding the facts of their murderous inquisitions, but not good enough. Inquisitions of the RCC - www.mtc.org/inquis.html
    Already answered---and decisively corrected---in Post #44 above.
    "The very tradition, teaching, & faith of the Catholic Church from the beginning was preached by the Apostles & preserved by the Fathers. On this the Church was founded..." ~ St. Athanasius (4th cent.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by CatholicCrusader View Post
    In this forum you will often see the acronym RCC tossed about. Sometimes it is done in innocence, but very often it is done out of malice by people who know better.

    Personally, I would appreciate it if peopler referred to me as a Catholic, and my Church as the Catholic Church. It would be the respectful thing to do since nobody here really know what Rite me or other Catholics here actually are.
    I respect your wishes on this, but I think you're confusing a Rite with a Church. A Rite is a distinctive means of administering the Sacraments - the "ritual," if you will. The Catholic Church is, universally speaking, the entire body of Christians who place their faith in Jesus Christ (including Protestants). But particular churches are vastly different, and to lump the Roman Catholic Church in with the Eastern Orthodox Church is greatly misleading. Those churches formally split nearly 1000 years ago, and there are real theological differences between them that extend beyond the Rites. For starters, the Orthodox Church does not fall within the ecclesiastical structure of the Roman Catholic Church - this has nothing do do with Rites, but the very essence of the Church bodies. The formal position of the Roman Catholic Church is it is not formally united with the Orthodox.

    The point is that lumping Orthodox/Eastern Rites and Churches in with the Roman Catholic Church is not correct - neither would consider themselves part of the same particular body. That said, I have no problem referring to Roman Catholics as simply Catholics, as most people understand the reference. Also, the Catechism leaves out the "Roman" because the Church views itself as the ONLY true church with no need for a distinction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Old man View Post
    A Catholic actually telling someone to read the Bible????????????????????????????? Now there is a new twist!
    Actually its an old twist since we were the ones who compiled the Bible. Johnny-Come-Lately protestants have taken the Bible and perverted what it says.

    "God never gives someone a gift they are not capable of receiving. If he gives us the gift of Christmas, it is because we all have the ability to understand and receive it." - Pope Francis

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    After all this time people still don't get it:


    Quote Originally Posted by CatholicCrusader View Post
    In this forum you will often see the acronym RCC tossed about. Sometimes it is done in innocence, but very often it is done out of malice by people who know better.

    The Catholic Church is the "Catholic Church", not the Roman Catholic Church. Within the Catholic Church, there are many "Rites": The Maronite Rite, the Syriac Rite, the Chaldean Rite, the Byzantine Rite, and many many other "Rites" or Churches, and also included is the Latin Rite, or "Roman" rite if you will. The Roman Catholic Church is a part of the Catholic Church, but that is all.

    What all these Churches - or "Rites" - have in common is doctrine, and submission to the Pope as the Successor of Peter and earthly head of the Church. Not all Catholics are "Latin Rite" Catholics though, and some Catholics can find it rather offensive when the Church is continually referred to as the RCC.

    Now in America, its true that most Catholics are Latin Rite (Roman Catholic) but many are not. But if you go to some other countries you'll find that most Catholics are NOT Roman Catholics.

    What does this say:



    It says "Catechism of the Catholic Church". It does not say "Catechism of the Roman Catholic Church". That is an important point to remember.

    Quote:
    RITES

    A Rite represents an ecclesiastical, or church, tradition about how the sacraments are to be celebrated. Each of the sacraments has at its core an essential nature which must be satisfied for the sacrament to be confected or realized. This essence of matter, form and intention derives from the divinely revealed nature of the particular sacrament. It cannot be changed by the Church. Scripture and Sacred Tradition, as interpreted by the Magisterium, tells us what is essential in each of the sacraments (2 Thes. 2:15).

    When the apostles brought the Gospel to the major cultural centers of their day the essential elements of religious practice were inculturated into those cultures. This means that the essential elements were clothed in the symbols and trappings of the particular people, so that the rituals conveyed the desired spiritual meaning to that culture. In this way the Church becomes all things to all men that some might be saved (1 Cor. 9:22).

    There are three major groupings of Rites based on this initial transmission of the faith, the Roman, the Antiochian (Syria) and the Alexandrian (Egypt). Later on the Byzantine derived as a major Rite from the Antiochian, under the influence of St. Basil and St. John Chrysostom. From these four derive the over 20 liturgical Rites present in the Church today.

    source: Catholic Rites and Churches

    Personally, I would appreciate it if peopler referred to me as a Catholic, and my Church as the Catholic Church. It would be the respectful thing to do since nobody here really know what Rite me or other Catholics here actually are.

    "God never gives someone a gift they are not capable of receiving. If he gives us the gift of Christmas, it is because we all have the ability to understand and receive it." - Pope Francis

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    RCC is fine to distinguish from other sects such as the Byzantine.

    We don't tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters exist.
    They already know monsters exist.
    We tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters can be killed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tambora View Post
    RCC is fine to distinguish from other sects such as the Byzantine.
    That is correct, although we use the word "Rites".

    "God never gives someone a gift they are not capable of receiving. If he gives us the gift of Christmas, it is because we all have the ability to understand and receive it." - Pope Francis

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    Quote Originally Posted by CatholicCrusader View Post
    How did Jesus mean things to be. First he chose specific men to teach and gave them this mandate: "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you"

    How did they first excersize this authority? In Acts 15, it was a Council that decided on the matter if Circumcision. They made this decision based on their authority. They did not consult any scriptures in their decision, but were rather guided by the Holy Spirit: "It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements" (Acts 15:28).

    This is how doctrine is decided: Not by popular vote, not by each individual reading a Bible and deciding for themselves what is right or wrong, but by a Council of those appointed by Christ.
    Rubbish...it remains Yah’s commandments > man’s traditions...

    Every one of the four requirements in Acts 15 expected of the gentiles crowding the synagogues each Sabbath was already understood to be expected of the gentile amongst them

    as ALL FOUR were already found in the OT...and given NOT by man...

    1. abstain from food polluted by idols - Leviticus 17:8-9 "Say to them: 'Any Israelite or any alien living among them who offers a burnt offering or sacrifice and does not bring it to the entrance to the Tent of Meeting to sacrifice it to the LORD--that man must be cut off from his people.' " To guard carefully against idolatry, this command was interpreted by the Jews to prohibit eating any meat that had been offered in a prohibited manner. In Rev. 2:14, 20 the words of Jesus show agreement with that interpretation.

    2.from sexual immorality - Leviticus 18:6-26 lists a wide range of sexually immoral activities and ends with, "The native-born and the aliens living among you must not do any of these detestable things,"

    3.from the meat of strangled animals - Leviticus 17:13,15 "Any Israelite or any alien living among you who hunts any animal or bird that may be eaten must drain out the blood and cover it with earth,
    "Anyone, whether native-born or alien, who eats anything found dead or torn by wild animals must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be ceremonially unclean till evening; then he will be clean." These were interpreted by the Jews to prohibit eating the meat of strangled animals.

    4.and from blood - Leviticus 17:10 "Any Israelite or any alien living among them who eats any blood--I will set my face against that person who eats blood and will cut him off from his people."

    There...SOLA SCRIPTURA even BEFORE your corporation compiled the letters and gospels written...

    Peter, your claim to first pope, was married and even kept kosher...we dont even hear of him after this council so there is no doctrine or dogma or teaching he made any changes to the teachings...he would not recognize nor approve what was done to “His Church” but instead he repeatedly warned of false teachers and wolves in sheep’s clothing or of dogs returning to their own vomit..

    And BTW this council in Acts 15 was concluded by James the brother of Jesus head of the Jerusalem church (Mary not virgin, Peter not first head of the church) with the summary Act 15:21 “For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.“ clearly indicating James fully intended that practice would continue and that gentiles would continue to crowd synagogues every Sabbath to hear more of Moses...and of course to hear of the One resurrected and why this Jew was killed by Rome...

    You can no longer in good faith and honesty claim the apostles set precedent establishing tradition outside of scripture...man made traditions outside of scripture is your tradition...

    Of course it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to the apostles AS IT WAS ALREADY IN SCRITPURE...AND NOT BY MAN

    and expected to be read to the crowding gentiles every Sabbath...




    Oh and don’t take it personally...the Eastern Orthodox make the same silly assertions for their own traditions based on this false application of Acts 15...
    Last edited by clefty; February 24th, 2018 at 01:58 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post
    ...it remains Yah’s commandments > man’s traditions......
    No, it remains what Jesus established. And JESUS established His Church:

    Quote Originally Posted by CatholicCrusader View Post

    A brief excerpt from "Pillar of Fire, Pillar of Truth"
    (
    source link):

    QUOTE:


    Among the Christian churches, only the Catholic Church has existed since the time of Jesus. Every other Christian church is an offshoot of the Catholic Church. The Eastern Orthodox churches broke away from unity with the pope in 1054. The Protestant churches were established during the Reformation, which began in 1517. (Most of today’s Protestant churches are actually offshoots of the original Protestant offshoots.)

    Only the Catholic Church existed in the tenth century, in the fifth century, and in the first century, faithfully teaching the doctrines given by Christ to the apostles, omitting nothing. The line of popes can be traced back, in unbroken succession, to Peter himself. This is unequaled by any institution in history.

    Even the oldest government is new compared to the papacy, and the churches that send out door-to-door missionaries are young compared to the Catholic Church. Many of these churches began as recently as the nineteenth or twentieth centuries. Some even began during your own lifetime. None of them can claim to be the Church Jesus established.

    The Catholic Church has existed for nearly 2,000 years, despite constant opposition from the world. This is testimony to the Church’s divine origin. It must be more than a merely human organization, especially considering that its human members— even some of its leaders—have been unwise, corrupt, or prone to heresy.

    Any merely human organization with such members would have collapsed early on. The Catholic Church is today the most vigorous church in the world (and the largest, with a billion members: one sixth of the human race), and that is testimony not to the cleverness of the Church’s leaders, but to the protection of the Holy Spirit.

    FOUR MARKS OF THE TRUE CHURCH

    If we wish to locate the Church founded by Jesus, we need to locate the one that has the four chief marks or qualities of his Church. The Church we seek must be one, holy, catholic, and apostolic.

    The Church Is One (Rom. 12:5, 1 Cor. 10:17, 12:13)
    Jesus established only one Church, not a collection of differing churches. The Bible says the Church is the bride of Christ (Eph. 5:23–32). Jesus can have but one spouse, and his spouse is the Catholic Church. His Church also teaches just one set of doctrines, which must be the same as those taught by the apostles (Jude 3). This is the unity of belief to which Scripture calls us (Phil. 1:27, 2:2). Over the centuries, as doctrines are examined more fully, the Church comes to understand them more deeply (John 16:12–13), but it never understands them to mean the opposite of what they once meant.

    The Church Is Holy (Eph. 5:25–27, Rev. 19:7–8)
    By his grace Jesus makes the Church holy, just as he is holy. This doesn’t mean that each member is always holy. Jesus said there would be both good and bad members in the Church (John 6:70), and not all the members would go to heaven (Matt. 7:21–23). But the Church itself is holy because it is the source of holiness and is the guardian of the special means of grace Jesus established, the sacraments (cf. Eph. 5:26).

    The Church Is Catholic (Matt. 28:19–20, Rev. 5:9–10)
    Jesus’ Church is called catholic ("universal" in Greek) because it is his gift to all people. He told his apostles to go throughout the world and make disciples of "all nations" (Matt. 28:19–20). For 2,000 years the Catholic Church has carried out this mission, preaching the good news that Christ died for all men and that he wants all of us to be members of his universal family (Gal. 3:28). Nowadays the Catholic Church is found in every country of the world and is still sending out missionaries to "make disciples of all nations" (Matt. 28:19). The Church Jesus established was known by its most common title, "the Catholic Church," at least as early as the year 107, when Ignatius of Antioch used that title to describe the one Church Jesus founded. The title apparently was old in Ignatius’s time, which means it probably went all the way back to the time of the apostles.

    The Church Is Apostolic (Eph. 2:19–20)
    The Church Jesus founded is apostolic because he appointed the apostles to be the first leaders of the Church, and their successors were to be its future leaders. The apostles were the first bishops, and, since the first century, there has been an unbroken line of Catholic bishops faithfully handing on what the apostles taught the first Christians in Scripture and oral Tradition (2 Tim. 2:2). These beliefs include the bodily Resurrection of Jesus, the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist, the sacrificial nature of the Mass, the forgiveness of sins through a priest, baptismal regeneration, the existence of purgatory, Mary’s special role, and much more —even the doctrine of apostolic succession itself. Early Christian writings prove the first Christians were thoroughly Catholic in belief and practice and looked to the successors of the apostles as their leaders. What these first Christians believed is still believed by the Catholic Church. No other Church can make that claim.

    Pillar of Fire, Pillar of Truth

    Man’s ingenuity cannot account for this. The Church has remained one, holy, catholic, and apostolic—not through man’s effort, but because God preserves the Church he established (Matt. 16:18, 28:20). He guided the Israelites on their escape from Egypt by giving them a pillar of fire to light their way across the dark wilderness (Exod. 13:21). Today he guides us through his Catholic Church.

    The Bible, sacred Tradition, and the writings of the earliest Christians testify that the Church teaches with Jesus’ authority. In this age of countless competing religions, each clamoring for attention, one voice rises above the din: the Catholic Church, which the Bible calls "the pillar and foundation of truth" (1 Tim. 3:15).

    Jesus assured the apostles and their successors, the popes and the bishops, "He who listens to you listens to me, and he who rejects you rejects me" (Luke 10:16). Jesus promised to guide his Church into all truth (John 16:12–13). We can have confidence that his Church teaches only the truth.


    END EXCERPT QUOTE



    "God never gives someone a gift they are not capable of receiving. If he gives us the gift of Christmas, it is because we all have the ability to understand and receive it." - Pope Francis

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    Quote Originally Posted by CatholicCrusader View Post
    No, it remains what Jesus established.
    hardly...Peter wouldnt even recognize it...

    And JESUS established His Church:
    yup...and Peter would hardly recognize it much less approve of all its progressive changes...a tradition to the point catholics now reject the changes of V2 even claiming this pope is a heretic...

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    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post
    hardly...Peter wouldnt even recognize it.....
    That's a good thing. If you saw a baby eone day and then ran into the adult 50 years later you would not recognize him either.

    One fact that your ilk fails to understand is that the Church is not a static prospect, She is a living organism - She grows, matures, learns.... ....if Peter could recognize the Church then something would be very wrong.

    "God never gives someone a gift they are not capable of receiving. If he gives us the gift of Christmas, it is because we all have the ability to understand and receive it." - Pope Francis

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    Quote Originally Posted by CatholicCrusader View Post
    That's a good thing. If you saw a baby eone day and then ran into the adult 50 years later you would not recognize him either.

    One fact that your ilk fails to understand is that the Church is not a static prospect, She is a living organism - She grows, matures, learns.... ....if Peter could recognize the Church then something would be very wrong.
    50 years later with many children and grandchildren then...yet Peter would expect the infant to still be a living human...that yours intends not to be recognized at all has made it into an eidolon...or more beast like...

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    If it was simply the Catholic Church then wouldn't it include all believers in Christ and not just other rcc?

    Catholic means universal right?

    Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by popsthebuilder View Post
    If it was simply the Catholic Church then wouldn't it include all believers in Christ and not just other rcc?

    Catholic means universal right?

    Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk
    It did include all believers at first, until the great schism at the end of the first millenium, and then after that Martin Luther and the protestant revolt in the 16th century.

    We still consider all Christians as brethren, although the sentiment is often not returned.

    Spiritually we are all still one. The division is in recognizing the duly appointed earthly shepherds of Christ's Church. In that regard I invite you to read this: Apostolic succession
    Last edited by CatholicCrusader; February 25th, 2018 at 08:55 AM. Reason: typo

    "God never gives someone a gift they are not capable of receiving. If he gives us the gift of Christmas, it is because we all have the ability to understand and receive it." - Pope Francis

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    Quote Originally Posted by CatholicCrusader View Post
    It did include all believers at first, until the great schism at the end of the first millenium, and then after that Martin Luther and the protestant revolt in the 16th century.

    We still consider all Christians as brethren, although the sentiment is often not returned.

    Spiritually we are all still one. The division is in recognizing the duly appointed earthly shepherds of Christ's Church. In the regard I invite you to read this: Apostolic succession
    I agree with your words but must disregard your last sentence to do so.

    You speak of geneologeis it seems; of which I have no interest.

    I do consider Catholics siblings in faith though; and do not hold that the actions of the arcc are indicative of the motives or faith of Catholic followers of Christ today.

    peace

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