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Thread: What is wrong with homosexuality - a primer for Christians and response

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    TOL Legend Lon's Avatar
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    What is wrong with homosexuality - a primer for Christians and response

    A little long with scriptures, but they are how we live as Spiritually indwelled beings. I've given commentary to tie them together for my reasoning and defense of our Christian view and understanding. I pray this post and the thread serve well for difficult days of needed discussion and understanding ahead. In Him

    Quote Originally Posted by Religious News Service
    Trey Pearson, 35, was overcome with emotion halfway into our first interview, and it is easy to understand why. For the past 15 years, he’s been the lead singer of the popular Christian rock band Everyday Sunday. But he decided to put his career on the line this week and acknowledge to his fans that he is gay.
    “I finally decided to come out because I couldn’t keep trying to be something that I wasn’t,” he tells me. -Jonathan Merritt, RNS, May 31, 2016
    How do we respond to other supposed Christians and the world regarding our stance against homosexuality?

    First of all, Trey Pearson is correct (hear me out) he actually did decide to come out and he couldn't keep trying to be something he was not, however, he further states in article: “There is absolutely no conflict with accepting who I am and following Jesus,” he said. “God wants me to be healthy, authentic, whole, integrated and my truest self.” -Trey Pearson

    This part is dead wrong and it is not and cannot ever be Christianity *(please read and meditate over the scriptures prayerfully, especially if you have disagreement):

    The first point I believe has to be an acknowledgement that we are not of this world: When God made man in the garden, he was flesh and blood but God breathed into him life. Genesis 2:7 It was not a physical breathe, it was Spirit. At that moment, we were made "in God's image." Genesis 1:26

    The Apostle Paul summarized the Christian life this way:

    Gal 5:16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.
    Gal 5:17 For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do.
    Gal 5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
    Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality,
    Gal 5:20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions,
    Gal 5:21 envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
    Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
    Gal 5:23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
    Gal 5:24 And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
    Gal 5:25 If we live by the Spirit, let us also keep in step with the Spirit.


    And in a nutshell:
    1Co 6:13 "Food is meant for the stomach and the stomach for food"—and God will destroy both one and the other. The body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body.
    1Co 6:17 But he who is joined to the Lord becomes one spirit with him.
    1Co 6:19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own,
    1Co 6:20 for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body


    It means that we live on a different plain of existence than the world. We treat others as spiritual, not physical objects:

    1Ti 5:1 Do not rebuke an older man but encourage him as you would a father, younger men as brothers,
    1Ti 5:2 older women as mothers, younger women as sisters, in all purity.

    1Co 2:12 Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God.
    1Co 2:13 And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual.
    1Co 2:14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
    1Co 2:15 The spiritual person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one.
    1Co 2:16 "For who has understood the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ.


    This also applies to us as we struggle against the world's propaganda of beauty and displays of flesh. It is difficult for even Christians to treat one another as brothers and sisters when flesh is flaunted. That person's soul is of greater importance than what is displayed to entice fleshly responses. It is appropriate to acknowledge our own struggles here and these scriptures can apply as adequately to those struggling with flesh-propaganda and commercialization.

    Such will be a hard truth for some, but it needs your prayer and struggle. We wrestle not with flesh and blood.

    How then do we talk about this with loved ones, friends, and others?

    1) We Christians believe we are spiritual beings and our primary role in life is Spiritual
    Jesus told Nicodemus that he must be born-again, of spirit. Christians then believe our calling is to love people in a spiritual manner. One supposed Christian on here said that if we give food at a food bank, and share the gospel, that there is a wrong agenda behind giving. I contest that as Christians, our greatest concern is not flesh, but spirit and we reckon the world as desperately needing Christ more than anything else Matthew 4:4

    2) We Christians must tell supposed Christians that are homosexual and following those flesh impulses, that they
    are not understanding what Christianity is and are surrendering to desires of the flesh. No man ever pleased God in his/her flesh.
    Rom 8:8 Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
    Rom 8:9 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.



    3) I think we Christians can do a better job of drawing the line for understanding of those inside and outside of the faith, and I think we can love our enemies and do good to them, while explaining why we see sexual sin and all sins of the flesh as opposed to Christianity and a need to be born of Spirit as believers in Christ.

    Here is an article by Peter Heck addressing Trey Pearson's homosexuality that also gives Christian perspective and may be helpful or useful for Christians reading.





    Last edited by Lon; June 8th, 2016 at 06:20 AM.
    My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
    Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
    Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
    Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
    No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
    Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

    Is Calvinism okay? Yep

    Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

    1Co 13:11 ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

    Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

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    Excellent OP Lon !

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    I'd like to know the percentage of gays that use or were using drugs and/or alcohol as a part of their gay lifestyle. I truly believe the number is quite high. I have a gay cousin that I pray for but we never discuss it. It's a hard subject to broach and for me it is easier to discuss with a stranger or a non family member. I worry about the attitudes and advertising and acceptance of lbgt in society, it's going to get worse.

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    I pray also this thread is pro-active. While debate may certainly occur, it is my desire that it should serve and function for helping Christians discuss this topic with those not understanding, and that it also sparks discussion of how best to handle our struggle, not against flesh and blood, but against spirits and principalities.
    A part two, from me or another, would be how to discuss this with a homosexual professing Christianity as well as how to share the gospel with one caught in sexual sins and feeling social and Christian culture rejection/judgement. -Lon
    My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
    Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
    Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
    Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
    No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
    Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

    Is Calvinism okay? Yep

    Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

    1Co 13:11 ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

    Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

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    TOL Legend Lon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by patrick jane View Post
    I'd like to know the percentage of gays that use or were using drugs and/or alcohol as a part of their gay lifestyle. I truly believe the number is quite high. I have a gay cousin that I pray for but we never discuss it. It's a hard subject to broach and for me it is easier to discuss with a stranger or a non family member. I worry about the attitudes and advertising and acceptance of lbgt in society, it's going to get worse.
    About 3 out of ten vs 1 out of ten in the general populace.
    My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
    Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
    Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
    Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
    No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
    Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

    Is Calvinism okay? Yep

    Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

    1Co 13:11 ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

    Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

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    Sodomy is just plain nasty.
    There ain't no nice way to say it.
    I mean, come on, sticking your body part into someone's feces chute dumper is just nasty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lon View Post
    I pray also this thread is pro-active. While debate may certainly occur, it is my desire that it should serve and function for helping Christians discuss this topic with those not understanding, and that it also sparks discussion of how best to handle our struggle, not against flesh and blood, but against spirits and principalities.
    A part two, from me or another, would be how to discuss this with a homosexual professing Christianity as well as how to share the gospel with one caught in sexual sins and feeling social and Christian culture rejection/judgement. -Lon
    aCW will be glad to participate

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    Quote Originally Posted by patrick jane View Post
    aCW will be glad to participate
    With a Christian, it'd be appropriate to use the OP verses and I'd encourage anyone needing to have this discussion to copy it and use it as well as the link, which also deals with the topic from a similar perspective. I'd use Galatians 5:16-25 for discussion.

    A non-Christian with little or no background in Christianity, I'd use the Romans Road Romans 3:23, 5:8, 6:23, 10:8-11
    then encourage a reading of Romans and John. All sin separates us from God and leads to death. The Lord Jesus Christ died on a cross for redemption and life. A turning from sin with death to trusting the Lord Jesus Christ is life.
    My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
    Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
    Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
    Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
    No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
    Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

    Is Calvinism okay? Yep

    Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

    1Co 13:11 ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

    Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

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    Christians need to have the attitude and understanding that all have sinned and come short. Sin is sin, whether it's lying stealing, or homosexuality.
    The main problem with homosexuality is that it is unnatural to those of us who are straighter than a ruler. But we cannot judge people from a moral perspective, if they are ignorant of God's moral law, and the love of God in Christ.
    john w actually made a valid point yesterday, when he brought the scripture "while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. So the biggest obstacle to me is the fact that it is so unnatural. That part of the body is a departure lounge. No arrivals.
    Delight yourself in the LORD, And He shall give you the desires of your heart. . Psalms 37:4

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    The act is a symptom of the heart condition: Romans 1:18-2:10
    My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
    Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
    Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
    Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
    No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
    Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

    Is Calvinism okay? Yep

    Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

    1Co 13:11 ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

    Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lon View Post
    The act is a symptom of the heart condition: Romans 1:18-2:10
    You have to be careful here, Lon.
    Paul regarded himself as the chief of sinners, which means he regarded himself as worse than a practicing homosexual. The current media and scientific defense of homosexuality creates a fog of ignorance. Even Paul said, mercy was obtained because I ignorantly acted in unbelief.
    Unbelief in ignorance is different from unbelief in defiance, which I believe is more reflective of a heart condition. For a heart to be hardened, it must have something to be hardened against.
    Delight yourself in the LORD, And He shall give you the desires of your heart. . Psalms 37:4

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    Quote Originally Posted by andyc View Post
    You have to be careful here, Lon.
    Paul regarded himself as the chief of sinners, which means he regarded himself as worse than a practicing homosexual. The current media and scientific defense of homosexuality creates a fog of ignorance. Even Paul said, mercy was obtained because I ignorantly acted in unbelief.
    Unbelief in ignorance is different from unbelief in defiance, which I believe is more reflective of a heart condition. For a heart to be hardened, it must have something to be hardened against.
    Don't forget the context of Romans 1 is the handing over of a people to their lusts :

    Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
    Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

    Romans 1:24-25

    As the verses immediately preceding the above passage show clearly, this is not the symptom of something done in ignorance, but a wholesale rejection of God by a society that should know better - and has, in times past, been so informed :

    For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
    Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
    For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
    Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
    Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
    And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

    Romans 1:18-23

    Reading 2 Peter 2, you find a comparison made to Sodom and Gomorrah as judgment - and this is in the context of the church...men who bring in destructive heresies. Seeing the church accept, tolerate (and even encourage) this "lifestyle" is not a sin of ignorance, but one of knowing rebellion :

    But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
    And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;
    Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
    Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;

    2 Peter 2:12-15

    The widespread acceptance (and 2 Peter 2 dealing with those corrupting the visible church) has to do with a persistent idolatry to which God responds by (essentially) saying to the rebel society : Have it your way.

    For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
    And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
    And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
    Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
    Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
    Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
    Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

    Romans 1:26-32

    And remember, at the heart of this all is one thing : idolatry. Read Ezekiel 8 and Ezekiel 9 to see how God reacted to this situation (idolatry in the midst of those who are called His people). As 2 Peter 2 goes on to say, it would have been better for them if they had never know the Truth than to have forsaken it...
    If God promises life, He slayeth first; when He builds, He casteth all down first. God is no patcher; He cannot build on another's foundation. - William Tyndale

    The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
    Jeremiah 17:9

    Who is among you that feareth the Lord, that obeyeth the voice of his servant, that walketh in darkness, and hath no light? let him trust in the name of the Lord, and stay upon his God.
    Behold, all ye that kindle a fire, that compass yourselves about with sparks: walk in the light of your fire, and in the sparks that ye have kindled. This shall ye have of mine hand; ye shall lie down in sorrow.

    Isaiah 50:10-11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lon View Post
    How do we respond to other supposed Christians and the world regarding our stance against homosexuality?
    Since Christ is not judging them it's a moot issue for me. (John 12:47-48)

    And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind to do those things which are not fitting; being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving,[d] unmerciful; who, knowing the righteous judgment of God that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them. (Romans 1:28-32)

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    John 12:47-48 - I can't wait for the last day

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    Quote Originally Posted by patrick jane View Post
    John 12:47-48 - I can't wait for the last day
    Why not?

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