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Thread: The fossil record shows there never was evolution.

  1. #16
    Over 1500 post club Elia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonahdog View Post
    elia gets the prize for quote mining.
    Bs'd


    What is quote-mining?

    "Quote-mining" is an expression, invented by evolutionists, who, because of cognitive dissonance, are unable to understand and/or accept the meaning of very clear, straightforward statements made by very scholarly evolutionists.

    Because of that cognitive dissonance they become very irrational, and start saying absurd things, for instance, that somebody who quotes an evolutionist professor is a liar, and they cannot understand that then the one who made that statement is really the liar, because he is the one who made that statement in the first place.

    They also claim that the statement is taken out of context, and that it really means the opposite of what it says.
    When they are then confronted with the context, and it is then clear for everybody that the context doesn't change anything of the meaning of the quote, then they usually start attacking a straw man, meaning that they are going to "prove" something what was not a discussion subject at all. Then they start for instance saying that the one who made the quote believes in evolution, something that was never a point of dissension.
    In the last stage they resort to name calling.

    Of the above mentioned stages one or more can be skipped in a debate. The intellectually lesser gifted evolutionists usually immediately start name calling.



    “Rabbi, you are using the old creationist trick of quote mining”



    And I say that when you quote expert opinions in your atheistic articles, you are guilty of “quote mining.” Gee, it seems we are at an impasse. What I am trying to illustrate, of course, is that the accusation of “quote mining” is childish and trivial. Not only does it not contribute to an adult-level exchange of ideas, but it actually inhibits such an exchange. It is perfectly valid to claim that a citation has been taken out of context … As long as you can back it up with a reasoned argument. If you have nothing more to contribute than hurling unsubstantiated accusations of “quote mining” please go back to high school and shoot spitballs and do all the other things that immature adolescents do.

    I repeat: It is perfectly valid to claim that a citation has been taken out of context … As long as you can back it up with a reasoned argument. If you have nothing more to contribute than hurling unsubstantiated accusations of “quote mining” please go back to high school and shoot spitballs and do all the other things that immature adolescents do.
    Please be advised that everywhere in your translation of your OT when it is written "the LORD" with all capitals, then in the original Hebrew it says the four lettered name of God: Y-H-W-H. That name appears almost 7000 times in the Hebrew Bible.

  2. #17
    Over 1500 post club Elia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonnet View Post
    And yet many Christians accept Darwinian evolution.
    Bs"d

    They have been mislead by so called "scientists":

    "Chicago Field Museum, Prof. of Geology, Univ. of Chicago, "A large number of well-trained scientists outside of evolutionary biology and palaeontology have unfortunately gotten the idea that the fossil record is far more Darwinian than it is. This probably comes from the oversimplification inevitable in secondary sources: low-level textbooks, semi-popular articles, and so on. Also, there is probably some wishful thinking involved. In the years after Darwin, his advocates hoped to find predictable progressions. In general, these have not been found yet the optimism has died hard, and some pure fantasy has crept into textbooks .... One of the ironies of the creation evolution debate is that the creationists have accepted the mistaken notion that the fossil record shows a detailed and orderly progression and they have gone to great lengths to accommodate this 'fact' in their Flood."

    Raup, David, "Geology" New Scientist, Vol. 90, p.832,1981

    David Raub is an evolutionist, and professor emeritus (former Sewell L. Avery Distinguished Service Professor) in Geophysical Sciences and former curator Geology at the Field Museum of Natural History at the University van Chicago. See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_M._Raup
    Please be advised that everywhere in your translation of your OT when it is written "the LORD" with all capitals, then in the original Hebrew it says the four lettered name of God: Y-H-W-H. That name appears almost 7000 times in the Hebrew Bible.

  3. #18
    Over 5000 post club ClimateSanity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonnet View Post
    Darwinian evolution and Genesis are incompatible, aren't they?
    Genesis isn't a science textbook. It isn't saying things were created in a chronological order. It's an allegorical story like other parts of the bible.

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    Over 3000 post club Sonnet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elia View Post
    Bs"d

    Darwinian evolution and the fossil record are also incompatible.
    Yes - I have read about Gould and his P.E. theory before. Have there been any developments?

  5. #20
    Over 1500 post club Elia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CherubRam View Post
    Evolution has always been faith based and not a true science.
    Bs"d

    Here's what an expert says about that:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Coyne

    Jerry Allen Coyne (born 1949) is an American professor of biology, known for his commentary on the intelligent design debate.

    "Of Vice and Men, A Case Study of Evolutionary Psychology" By Jerry Allan Coyne

    "In science's pecking order, evolutionary biology lurks somewhere near the bottom, far closer to phrenology (schedelmeting) than to physics. For evolutionary biology is a historical science, laden with history's inevitable imponderables. We evolutionary biologists cannot generate a Cretaceous Park to observe exactly what killed the dinosaurs; and, unlike "harder" scientists, we usually cannot resolve issues with a simple experiment, such as adding tube A to tube B and noting the color of the mixture.

    The latest dead weight dragging us closer to phrenology is "evolutionary psychology," or the science formerly known as sociobiology, which studies the evolutionary roots of human behavior. There is nothing inherently wrong with this enterprise, and it has proposed some intriguing theories, particularly about the evolution of language. The problem is that evolutionary psychology suffers from the scientific equivalent of megalomania. Most of its adherents are convinced that virtually every human action or feeling, including depression, homosexuality, religion, and consciousness, was put directly into our brains by natural selection. In this view, evolution becomes the key--the only key--that can unlock our humanity.
    Unfortunately, evolutionary psychologists routinely confuse theory and speculation. Unlike bones, behavior does not fossilize, and understanding its evolution often involves concocting stories that sound plausible but are hard to test. Depression, for example, is seen as a trait favored by natural selection to enable us to solve our problems by withdrawing, reflecting, and hence enhancing our future reproduction. Plausible? Maybe. Scientifically testable? Absolutely not. If evolutionary biology is a soft science, then evolutionary psychology is its flabby underbelly."
    Please be advised that everywhere in your translation of your OT when it is written "the LORD" with all capitals, then in the original Hebrew it says the four lettered name of God: Y-H-W-H. That name appears almost 7000 times in the Hebrew Bible.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClimateSanity View Post
    Genesis isn't a science textbook. It isn't saying things were created in a chronological order. It's an allegorical story like other parts of the bible.
    That's one view. Nothing in the texts says it's an allegory.

  7. #22
    Over 1500 post club Elia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonnet View Post
    Yes - I have read about Gould and his P.E. theory before. Have there been any developments?
    Bs"d

    Not that I know of.

    PE is an emergency measure in order to explain away the total lack of proof for evolution in the fossil record:

    "The Eldredge-Gould concept of punctuated equilibria has gained wide acceptance among paleontologists. It attempts to account for the following paradox: Within continuously sampled lineages, one rarely finds the gradual morphological trends predicted by Darwinian evolution; rather, change occurs with the sudden appearance of new, well-differentiated species. Eldredge and Gould equate such appearances with speciation, although the details of these events are not preserved. .... The punctuated equilibrium model has been widely accepted, not because it has a compelling theoretical basis but because it appears to resolve a dilemma. Apart from the obvious sampling problems inherent to the observations that stimulated the model, and apart from its intrinsic circularity (one could argue that speciation can occur only when phyletic change is rapid, not vice versa), the model is more ad hoc explanation than theory, and it rests on shaky ground."


    Ricklefs, Robert E., "Palaeontologists Confronting Macro Evolution," Science, vol. 199, 1978, p. 59


    Robert E Ricklefs is an evolutionist and professor biology at the University of Missouri te St. Louis:

    http://www.umsl.edu/~ricklefs
    Please be advised that everywhere in your translation of your OT when it is written "the LORD" with all capitals, then in the original Hebrew it says the four lettered name of God: Y-H-W-H. That name appears almost 7000 times in the Hebrew Bible.

  8. #23
    Old Timer SonOfCaleb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonnet View Post
    That's one view. Nothing in the texts says it's an allegory.
    Correct. Genesis is not allegorical. The early chapters detail the history of creation up to the creation of Adam and afterwards. Each creative 'day' or epoch is told and listed in chronological order, Gods creative works starting with the beginning of the preparatory works on Earth in the first day.
    Genesis does not detail nor include the creation of the Universe or in fact the Earth (other than acknowledging their creation presuambly in the distant past but no more detail is provided) as part of the Creation account.

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    elia, the master of cut and paste.

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    Over 5000 post club CherubRam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SonOfCaleb View Post
    There's not a single scripture in the Bible that supports such errenous thinking. The Bible actually states that God is eternal having no begnning and no end. Psalm 90:2 "Before the mountains were born
    Or you brought forth the earth and the productive land,
    From everlasting to everlasting, you are God"

    Unfortunately human thinking especially in philosphical and academic circles can be very linear applying the same 'known' scientific principles to everything, including God, which actually proves how limited human intelligience can be and explains why Science et al have such a difficult time accepting this Bible based fact.
    God Evolved
    Alpha First Beginning

    Isaiah 44:6
    “This is what the Lord says— Israel’s King and Redeemer, the Lord Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.

    Isaiah 48:12
    “Listen to me, Jacob, Israel, whom I have called: I am he; I am the first and I am the last.

    Revelation 1:8
    I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.”

    Revelation 21:6
    He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life.

    Revelation 22:13
    I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.



    Isaiah 43:10. "You are my witnesses," declares the LORD (Yahwah), "and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am He. Before me no god formed, nor will there be one after me.

    The missing links are missing because life did not evolve in this Universe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CherubRam View Post
    [FONT="]God Evolved [/FONT]
    [FONT="]Alpha First Beginning[/FONT][FONT="]

    Isaiah 44:6
    “This is what the Lord says— Israel’s King and Redeemer, the Lord Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.

    Isaiah 48:12
    “Listen to me, Jacob, Israel, whom I have called: I am he; I am the first and I am the last.

    Revelation 1:8
    I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.”

    Revelation 21:6
    He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life.

    Revelation 22:13
    I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. [/FONT]

    [FONT="] [/FONT]
    [FONT="]Isaiah 43:10. "You are my witnesses," declares the LORD (Yahwah), "and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am He. Before me no god formed, nor will there be one after me. [/FONT]
    [FONT="] [/FONT]
    The missing links are missing because life did not evolve in this Universe.
    None of those scriptures support your argument. All they state is that God is the first and the last, which is indeed correct as he is eternal.

    Moses said in prayer to Jehovah: “You have always been, and you will always be.” (Psalm 90:2, The Holy Bible, New Century Version). Revelation 4:10 tells us God is "the One that lives forever and ever" his existence stretching into the eternal future and the eternal past.

    It should be self evident that the logic around the creation of the creator is spurious. As if God was indeed created than who created the creator that made God and so on and so forth. This kind of logic is flawed and demonsrates circular human 'reasoning'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SonOfCaleb View Post
    None of those scriptures support your argument. All they state is that God is the first and the last, which is indeed correct as he is eternal.

    Moses said in prayer to Jehovah: “You have always been, and you will always be.” (Psalm 90:2, The Holy Bible, New Century Version). Revelation 4:10 tells us God is "the One that lives forever and ever" his existence stretching into the eternal future and the eternal past.

    It should be self evident that the logic around the creation of the creator is spurious. As if God was indeed created than who created the creator that made God and so on and so forth. This kind of logic is flawed and demonsrates circular human 'reasoning'.
    I guess you did not see the word "formed."

  13. #28
    Over 4000 post club alwight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elia View Post
    Bs'd


    What is quote-mining?

    "Quote-mining" is an expression, invented by evolutionists, who, because of cognitive dissonance, are unable to understand and/or accept the meaning of very clear, straightforward statements made by very scholarly evolutionists.

    Because of that cognitive dissonance they become very irrational, and start saying absurd things, for instance, that somebody who quotes an evolutionist professor is a liar, and they cannot understand that then the one who made that statement is really the liar, because he is the one who made that statement in the first place.

    They also claim that the statement is taken out of context, and that it really means the opposite of what it says.
    When they are then confronted with the context, and it is then clear for everybody that the context doesn't change anything of the meaning of the quote, then they usually start attacking a straw man, meaning that they are going to "prove" something what was not a discussion subject at all. Then they start for instance saying that the one who made the quote believes in evolution, something that was never a point of dissension.
    In the last stage they resort to name calling.

    Of the above mentioned stages one or more can be skipped in a debate. The intellectually lesser gifted evolutionists usually immediately start name calling.



    “Rabbi, you are using the old creationist trick of quote mining”



    And I say that when you quote expert opinions in your atheistic articles, you are guilty of “quote mining.” Gee, it seems we are at an impasse. What I am trying to illustrate, of course, is that the accusation of “quote mining” is childish and trivial. Not only does it not contribute to an adult-level exchange of ideas, but it actually inhibits such an exchange. It is perfectly valid to claim that a citation has been taken out of context … As long as you can back it up with a reasoned argument. If you have nothing more to contribute than hurling unsubstantiated accusations of “quote mining” please go back to high school and shoot spitballs and do all the other things that immature adolescents do.

    I repeat: It is perfectly valid to claim that a citation has been taken out of context … As long as you can back it up with a reasoned argument. If you have nothing more to contribute than hurling unsubstantiated accusations of “quote mining” please go back to high school and shoot spitballs and do all the other things that immature adolescents do.
    What is Spamming?
    The above is ^!
    (I'm not allowed to post links to other forums)

    But I learnt something:

    Eliyahu

    Bs"d

    The above is an abbreviation of the Aramaic expression "Ba siata desmaya", and that means: "With the help of Heaven".



  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by CherubRam View Post
    I guess you did not see the word "formed."
    I did. Like i said none of those scriptures support your argument. And if you think your argument is rationale then who or what, or what process created God....

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    Quote Originally Posted by SonOfCaleb View Post
    I did. Like i said none of those scriptures support your argument. And if you think your argument is rationale then who or what, or what process created God....
    If the words "first," "beginning," "alpha," and "formed" dose not work in your understanding, then there is nothing I can do for you.

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