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Thread: chrysostom

  1. #1501
    TOL Legend chrysostom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post
    Had he resisted he would have been arrested. He was detained because a couple of cops, who may have made a stupid decision and compounded it with needlessly aggressive behavior,
    how did he get on the ground if he did not resist?
    how do you know it was 'needlessly aggressive behavior'?
    a voice crying in the wilderness :chrysost:

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    Quote Originally Posted by chrysostom View Post
    town agrees that he ran away
    From the shooter.

    -but-
    town knows why he did
    Same reason everyone ran away. And why do you know that? Because there's no other reason that makes any sense.

    town knows the difference between arrest and detain
    Sure. But all you really need to know is how to read, because that's what the police said and reported about the incident.

    town is a lawyer
    Sure.

    town knows 'needlessly aggressive behavior'
    I haven't seen one account from the police that suggested Bennett was anything other than compliant, though I have read Bennett's claims that the officers involved were needlessly aggressive, both in how they cuffed him and, of course, the whole gun by the side of his head, "I'll blow your [redacted] head off" business.

    Curious additional fact: the officer who detained Bennett didn't have his body camera on. Son of a gun. The one thing that would instantly clear up the "gun by the side of my head" charge too. Man, bad break that one.

    -but-can't explain why it is needed if you don't resist
    You don't have to have any reason to cuff someone beyond the suspicion that they've participated in a crime. It's not unusual for an officer to explain the process, that you're being handcuffed for his/her protection while he/she ascertains if there is reason to arrest. If the police officers have reason to suspect they have what they need to place you in a safe restraint. Unless there's a peculiar wrinkle to the jurisdiction here that requires more the act of placing Bennett in restraint wasn't unusual or wrong. And given police were dealing with a potential unknown shooter at the time they're probably not going to get in trouble for detaining him. Not because they're singling him out was reasonable, but because it wasn't reckless or unreasonable given the particulars. There's enough gray area. The thing they'll have trouble with is the language and gun use IF it is corroborated by other video. That and the fact the allegedly offending officer's body cam just happens to be the one turned off during the incident.

    I saw one snippet from TMZ video that comes in late and you can hear one of the officers use the word Bennett claims in yelling instructions about where to place his hands to finish the cuffing. So dropping the F Bomb appears to be in line with at least one of the detaining officers habit.

    town is a lawyer
    What are you?
    You aren't what you eat, but you're always what you swallow.

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  3. #1503
    TOL Legend chrysostom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post
    I have read Bennett's claims that the officers involved were needlessly aggressive,
    why do you believe him?
    a voice crying in the wilderness :chrysost:

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    Quote Originally Posted by chrysostom View Post
    why do you believe him?
    I didn't say I believed him. I said I was aware of it. I've given you facts. You're reaching. Why is that?

    One of the later facts that would put at least a little more credibility in the Bennett column was the language I heard from one officer at the very end of the incident, in the tape available on TMZ, where you can hear the F bomb being dropped by one giving Bennet instruction about how to hold his hands (palms in) as he's cuffed.
    You aren't what you eat, but you're always what you swallow.

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    Missed this one earlier.
    Quote Originally Posted by chrysostom View Post
    how did he get on the ground if he did not resist?
    It's not unusual for police officers to instruct a suspect to lie on the ground, where it's easier to cuff and handle him. It's especially true where the suspect is male and the situation is charged (as in the belief of an active shooter in the area/people fleeing).

    how do you know it was 'needlessly aggressive behavior'?
    You need to read more closely or be more honest in your representations. This is twice you've done this. I said

    "He was detained because a couple of cops, who may have made a stupid decision and compounded it with needlessly aggressive behavior, decided to read the worst possible thing into his actions."

    May have, as in, "If Bennett's allegations regarding the gun near his head and knee grinding into his back are sustainable".
    You aren't what you eat, but you're always what you swallow.

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  6. #1506
    TOL Legend chrysostom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post
    I didn't say I believed him. I said I was aware of it. I've given you facts.
    you presented what he said as being a fact
    -
    why would you believe someone who doesn't understand how many had to die so he could make millions playing football?
    -
    just to prove that you are not a racist?
    a voice crying in the wilderness :chrysost:

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    Quote Originally Posted by chrysostom View Post
    you presented what he said as being a fact
    No, I didn't. I presented the fact of his statement. I distinguished pointedly between supposition on points and facts.

    why would you believe someone who doesn't understand how many had to die so he could make millions playing football?
    Why would you keep saying I believed him when you only just made the assertion in your last post and I answered that I didn't. I'm noting what he said. I've noted what the police statement said. I've addressed your read-in speculations and given qualified answers.

    I've also noted a few things that don't bode well for the policemen involved.

    Now I'll add to my notes your odd, derogatory supposition about what Bennett knows presented as though it was a certainty.

    just to prove that you are not a racist?
    Never crossed my mind. Interesting that it crossed yours. Is it the resentment that attends some when a man makes the millions you noted by playing a game? Or is it something else?
    You aren't what you eat, but you're always what you swallow.

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  8. #1508
    TOL Legend chrysostom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post

    I've also noted a few things that don't bode well for the policemen involved.
    you are defending bennett who has an agenda
    -and-
    does not appreciate what he has
    -
    you are not defending the police whose job it is to defend us
    -and-
    they must deal with the likes of bennett way too often
    a voice crying in the wilderness :chrysost:

  9. #1509
    TOL Legend chrysostom's Avatar
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    a voice crying in the wilderness :chrysost:

  10. #1510
    TOL Legend chrysostom's Avatar
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    just for the moment pretend you are a policeman
    -and-
    you are confronted with a 6'4" 274 lb black man who is built like a football player
    -and-
    he has a chip on his shoulder
    -and-
    you have to do your job
    a voice crying in the wilderness :chrysost:

  11. #1511
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrysostom View Post
    you are defending bennett
    No, not really. What's he been charged with?

    who has an agenda
    I could say the same of you.

    -and-does not appreciate what he has
    You don't know him. You can't really say that...well, you can't say it responsibly.

    you are not defending the police
    I'm not defending either of the parties.

    What I did do was note what both of them said about the incident and what I'd observed from data outside either of their control.

    And when you read in things you couldn't know I gave you another perspective to not consider.

    whose job it is to defend us
    I've always had a great working relationship with law enforcement and one of my best and life long friends was a Marine MP and then a patrolman for a California township. I've always said that with policemen you tend to get one of two sorts, those with a remarkable desire to literally risk their lives to protect others and uphold the law, and those who like the authority that job gives them...I'm sure everyone has a little of either, but the driving force will tend to be one or the other and it doesn't take long to figure out which you're dealing with.

    -and-they must deal with the likes of bennett way too often
    They have to deal with hard working, philanthropic millionaires all the time? Dang.

    The likes of Bennett...a guy you really don't know. I mean other than the time he "stole" a bicycle from a police officer to do a victory lap inside the field following an NFC Championship win against Green Bay. . . That put him on your "radar" chrys? Or was it his call for white players to stand beside black NFL players in calling for a serious look at inequities in the criminal justice system relating to blacks? Or maybe his more recent decision to sit out the anthem in the wake of Charlotesville?

    All I know is that he's worked hard to do what most football playing athletes dream of doing, play in the NFL. I know he didn't have it handed to him, that he was cut by Seattle as a younger man, proved himself in Tampa Bay, before coming back to play for the Seahawks.

    I know Michael had committed all of his endorsement money this year to charities within the black community along with half the proceeds from his jersey sales.

    Said Bennett, “The system is failing our kids, and it will be up to the community and our leaders to help keep the hope alive by focusing on improving our education system and the future of our kids. Any company that decides to invest in me, just know that you’ll be investing in opportunities and providing inspiration for these families- many who feel unnoticed or go unmentioned.”

    I know he has a charitable foundation that is committed to fighting childhood obesity and provides free football camps for underprivileged youth.

    It took me less than five minutes to know that much about him.

    How long did it take for you to make up your mind?
    You aren't what you eat, but you're always what you swallow.

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  12. #1512
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrysostom View Post
    just for the moment pretend you are a policeman
    -and-you are confronted with a 6'4" 274 lb black man who is built like a football player
    You feel confronted by everyone at a track meet? That has to be tough.

    Otherwise, there are no accounts of this citizen you're sworn to protect doing anything more than complying. There's video where you can hear him, in the act of being handcuffed, addressing the you as, "Sir" and declaring his innocence of any wrongdoing.

    -and- he has a chip on his shoulder
    Uppity, is he? Ungrateful for the millions, is he? Man chrys, you should consider sitting this one out.
    You aren't what you eat, but you're always what you swallow.

    Pro-Life







  13. #1513
    TOL Legend chrysostom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post

    How long did it take for you to make up your mind?
    as soon as I realized you were defending bennett and not the police
    -
    isn't that your job?
    -
    young blacks need fathers
    -not-
    activists disrespecting the flag and police
    a voice crying in the wilderness :chrysost:

  14. #1514
    TOL Legend chrysostom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post

    Uppity, is he? Ungrateful for the millions, is he? Man chrys, you should consider sitting this one out.
    somebody has to defend the police
    -
    know any good lawyers?
    a voice crying in the wilderness :chrysost:

  15. #1515
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrysostom View Post
    as soon as I realized you were defending bennett and not the police
    Actually, that's not true. You began the conversation by declaring to everyone:
    Quote Originally Posted by chrysostom View Post
    did michael bennett run and resist arrest?
    -
    this racist wants to know
    Or, before I'd said one word about it you had him resisting arrest. Tying the racist bit in just helps understand your background notions about him and how that fueled your embrace of a negative, assumptive position.

    You went on to make several assumptive mistakes, here are a few bundled by you:
    Quote Originally Posted by chrysostom View Post
    so why did they arrest him?
    Didn't happen.
    why did they cuff him?
    Standard procedure.
    because he resisted
    Didn't happen.
    why did he run and resist
    Because there was, he believed, a shooter in the general direction police were heading and he didn't resist, again, by any given account.
    it is his job
    what is his job?
    being an activist
    Sure. In the mind of chrys Bennett jumped and ran so the police would give chase, so he could jeopardize his safety and possibly his life on the odd chance that one of the officers would behave inappropriately and be videoed doing it. That's what you have to believe is reasonable to follow Chry's resentment powered perspective.

    Why do I say resentment powered? Because chrys says the darndest things, like:
    Quote Originally Posted by chrysostom View Post
    why would you believe someone who doesn't understand how many had to die so he could make millions playing football?
    Quote Originally Posted by chrysostom View Post
    does not appreciate what he has -and-they must deal with the likes of bennett way too often
    Quote Originally Posted by chrysostom View Post
    he has a chip on his shoulder
    He might, but you absolutely do, chrys.

    Quote Originally Posted by chrysostom View Post
    young blacks need fathers
    -not-activists disrespecting the flag and police
    Every kid who doesn't have what he needs needs help. Bennett is providing that. He's been doing it for a while, apparently.
    You aren't what you eat, but you're always what you swallow.

    Pro-Life







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