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Thread: chrysostom

  1. #2401
    TOL Legend chrysostom's Avatar
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    your Catholic money
    A Slush Fund
    for the Democratic Party which supports abortion. You will find organizations like the Brazilian Worker Center which received $55,000 from the Catholic Campaign for Human Development if you check the complete list at CCHD GRANTEES. Know where the money is going. They are not charities. They are political action groups that support the Democratic Party that supports abortion.
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    a voice crying in the wilderness :chrysost:

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  3. #2402
    Over 2000 post club Idolater's Avatar
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    From the '[Catechism of the Church]:'

    Abortion

    2270
    Spoiler
    Human life must be respected and protected absolutely from the moment of conception. From the first moment of his existence, a human being must be recognized as having the rights of a person - among which is the inviolable right of every innocent being to life.

    Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you. Jeremiah 1:5; cf. Job 10:8-12; Psalm 22:10-11.

    My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret, intricately wrought in the depths of the earth. Psalm 139:15.

    2271
    Spoiler
    Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion. This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable. Direct abortion, that is to say, abortion willed either as an end or a means, is gravely contrary to the moral law:

    You shall not kill the embryo by abortion and shall not cause the newborn to perish.

    God, the Lord of life, has entrusted to men the noble mission of safeguarding life, and men must carry it out in a manner worthy of themselves. Life must be protected with the utmost care from the moment of conception: abortion and infanticide are abominable crimes.


    2272
    Spoiler
    Formal cooperation in an abortion constitutes a grave offense. The Church attaches the canonical penalty of excommunication to this crime against human life. A person who procures a completed abortion incurs excommunication 'latae sententiae,' by the very commission of the offense, and subject to the conditions provided by Canon Law. The Church does not thereby intend to restrict the scope of mercy. Rather, she makes clear the gravity of the crime committed, the irreparable harm done to the innocent who is put to death, as well as to the parents and the whole of society.

    2273
    Spoiler
    The inalienable right to life of every innocent human individual is a constitutive element of a civil society and its legislation:

    The inalienable rights of the person must be recognized and respected by civil society and the political authority. These human rights depend neither on single individuals nor on parents; nor do they represent a concession made by society and the state; they belong to human nature and are inherent in the person by virtue of the creative act from which the person took his origin. Among such fundamental rights one should mention in this regard every human being's right to life and physical integrity from the moment of conception until death.

    The moment a positive law deprives a category of human beings of the protection which civil legislation ought to accord them, the state is denying the equality of all before the law. When the state does not place its power at the service of the rights of each citizen, and in particular of the more vulnerable, the very foundations of a state based on law are undermined. As a consequence of the respect and protection which must be ensured for the unborn child from the moment of conception, the law must provide appropriate penal sanctions for every deliberate violation of the child's rights.


    2274
    Spoiler
    Since it must be treated from conception as a person, the embryo must be defended in its integrity, cared for, and healed, as far as possible, like any other human being.

    Prenatal diagnosis is morally licit, if it respects the life and integrity of the embryo and the human fetus and is directed toward its safe guarding or healing as an individual. It is gravely opposed to the moral law when this is done with the thought of possibly inducing an abortion, depending upon the results: a diagnosis must not be the equivalent of a death sentence.


    2275
    Spoiler
    One must hold as licit procedures carried out on the human embryo which respect the life and integrity of the embryo and do not involve disproportionate risks for it, but are directed toward its healing the improvement of its condition of health, or its individual survival.

    It is immoral to produce human embryos intended for exploitation as disposable biological material.

    Certain attempts to influence chromosomic or genetic inheritance are not therapeutic but are aimed at producing human beings selected according to sex or other predetermined qualities. Such manipulations are contrary to the personal dignity of the human being and his integrity and identity which are unique and unrepeatable.

    I'm still trying to figure out how teaching the above constitutes the Church supporting abortion.
    "Those who believe in Christ" are all the Christians, Catholic or not.

    @Nee_Nihilo

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    TOL Legend chrysostom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Idolater View Post
    I'm still trying to figure out how teaching the above constitutes the Church supporting abortion.
    It is what you do
    and
    not what you say
    a voice crying in the wilderness :chrysost:

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    Over 2000 post club Idolater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrysostom View Post
    It is what you do
    and
    not what you say
    In Matthew 23, Christ says, "The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat: 3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not." We are to "observe and do" what the bishops 'bid us observe,' just as in the Old Covenant. The Pope (and all the bishops in communion with the papacy) sits in St. Peter's seat, instead of in Moses' seat, and there are many things different between the Old and New Covenants, but this is not one of them. We "observe and do" according to what they bid us observe, not "after their works."
    "Those who believe in Christ" are all the Christians, Catholic or not.

    @Nee_Nihilo

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  8. #2405
    TOL Legend chrysostom's Avatar
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    poverty, war, and injustice
    A Common Theme
    that does not include abortion. The Catholic Campaign for Helping Democrats ignores abortion. CCHD GRANTEES are all about unions, immigration, minimum wage, women issues, and the environment but apparently abortion is not an injustice. The people involved with these grantees have no place to go but the Democratic Party that supports abortion. The bishops know this. Do you know what they are doing with your money?
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    a voice crying in the wilderness :chrysost:

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    TOL Legend chrysostom's Avatar
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    not a charity but
    A Political Action Group
    that supports issues owned by the Democratic Party that supports abortion. Let's look at another example of the CCHD GRANTEES that has received money from the Catholic Campaign for Helping Democrats. "CONECT has made an impact on issues as varied as gun violence, health insurance rates, police reform, immigrant rights, and more." Does more include abortion? I don't think so. Are these issues associated with the Democratic Party that supports abortion? I think so.
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    a voice crying in the wilderness :chrysost:

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  12. #2407
    TOL Legend chrysostom's Avatar
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    the unborn baby
    A Human Development
    that is not covered by the Catholic Campaign For Human Development. Another example of the CCHD GRANTEES that have received money from the Catholic Campaign for Helping Democrats is the Naugatuck Valley Project. "The Project focuses on the development of the leadership qualities and organizing skills of scores of low and moderate income people as they engage in citizen action and democratic economic development campaigns. " The bishops talk about abortion but the money just goes to organizations that are associated with the Democratic Party which supports abortion.
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    a voice crying in the wilderness :chrysost:

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    TOL Legend annabenedetti's Avatar
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    Maybe if you took better care of the post-birth persons, they'd be in a better position to take care of their pre-birth persons.

    Tried and waited then got tired, that's about it

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  16. #2409
    TOL Legend chrysostom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by annabenedetti View Post
    Maybe if you took better care of the post-birth persons, they'd be in a better position to take care of their pre-birth persons.
    Really? Take some time and think about that. Respect for life comes first.
    a voice crying in the wilderness :chrysost:

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    Quote Originally Posted by chrysostom View Post
    Really? Take some time and think about that. Respect for life comes first.
    I already took time to think about it. Respect for life includes post-birth as well as pre-birth. You're ignoring one for the other.

    Tried and waited then got tired, that's about it

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    TOL Legend chrysostom's Avatar
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    just think what you can do
    A Crisis in the Church
    that you can't ignore. Just do it. Do something. You can make a difference. First think. Think and do. Identify the problem. We are losing our values. Start with life. Start with the life of a child. Stop right there. We need to protect the life of the child. Once the child is protected, then and only then can we go on to climate change. Is that so hard to understand? So if your bishop starts talking about climate change, you know he can't be trusted.
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    a voice crying in the wilderness :chrysost:

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    Out of Order Town Heretic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrysostom View Post
    just think what you can do
    A Crisis in the Church
    that you can't ignore. Just do it. Do something. You can make a difference. First think. Think and do. Identify the problem. We are losing our values. Start with life. Start with the life of a child. Stop right there. We need to protect the life of the child. Once the child is protected, then and only then can we go on to climate change. Is that so hard to understand? So if your bishop starts talking about climate change, you know he can't be trusted.
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    I agree with the priority, but not the approach. Do the good you can do, wherever and whenever you can do it. Some of it will come easily and some will take generations. If you make the latter a bar to the former you don't make the world more virtuous, you make the latter less likely.
    You aren't what you eat, but you're always what you swallow.

    Pro-Life







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    TOL Legend annabenedetti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrysostom View Post
    just think what you can do
    A Crisis in the Church
    that you can't ignore. Just do it. Do something. You can make a difference. First think. Think and do. Identify the problem. We are losing our values. Start with life. Start with the life of a child. Stop right there. We need to protect the life of the child. Once the child is protected, then and only then can we go on to climate change. Is that so hard to understand? So if your bishop starts talking about climate change, you know he can't be trusted.
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    Ridiculous. You're treating people as one dimensional automatons incapable of holding more than one concern at a time.

    Are you willing to have your taxes pay for paid maternity care, family leave, aid to families with dependent children, federal lunch programs, after school programs, disability, universal medical care, long-term care, medicare, social security, environmentally clean air, waterways, parks, subsidized housing, consumer protection, and on and on and on?

    If not, then how are you going to take care of the baby?

    Tried and waited then got tired, that's about it

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    Quote Originally Posted by annabenedetti View Post
    ... how are you going to take care of the baby?
    that's the job of the mother and the father

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    Quote Originally Posted by annabenedetti View Post
    Are you willing to have your taxes pay for paid maternity care, family leave, aid to families with dependent children, federal lunch programs, after school programs, disability, universal medical care, long-term care, medicare, social security,
    No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, and no.

    environmentally clean air,
    Not sure. Seems like the private sector could do a pretty good job of keeping the air clean, though how much, if at all, the government should be involved isn't something I've studied much.

    Though, I wouldn't' consider "clean air" to be infrastructure...

    waterways, parks,
    Yes and yes.

    subsidized housing, consumer protection,
    No and no.

    and on and on and on?
    Depends.

    If not, then how are you going to take care of the baby?
    By using the money that we still have due to not being taxed through our noses for things that the private industry should be able to provide and that the government has no business sticking their noses in (basically, everything that I said "no" to above) to help those in need, that being, in this case, the mother and her child, though, as doser said, the primary caregiver should be the mother and the father.

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