The Perversion of Libertarianism

[patrick jane]

You just contradicted yourself.

Thanks for stopping by.

Hardly, it all boils down to - if anyone is stupid enough to give him money, that's what he hopes for.

[aCultureWarrior]

What victims do you see, you never said.

The panhandler because he's not holding himself up to a higher standard.

Businesses: Street people are notorious for shoplifting and leaving needles in restrooms, stairwells and urinating and defecating in doorways, etc.

Society at large: Because the culture mores' and laws aren't holding individuals up to a higher standard (being self sufficient).

[aCultureWarrior]

Continuing with Libertarian cellist's very strange post from page 1 (I'm still waiting for his response to this post:
http://theologyonline.com/showthread...=1#post4645756

2) I put forward a philosophical argument that self ownership is axiomatic. Self ownership fits the bill well to be an axiom because one cannot argue against it without presupposing it. If aCultureWarrior argues against self ownership, for example, he is in essence affirming his ownership over his own mind (i.e. self ownership).

Aside from those with psychological problems, we're all able to control our thoughts and the actions that follow those thoughts. The Libertarian definition of self ownership is as follows:

As Libertarians, we seek a world of liberty; a world in which all individuals are sovereign over their own lives and no one is forced to sacrifice his or her values for the benefit of others.
http://www.lp.org/platform

The Libertarian definition of self ownership is in direct contrast to Jesus's 2 greatest commandments:

Matthew 22:36-40

hence the reason one cannot call him or herself a "Libertarian" and still be a follower of Christ.

[annabenedetti]

The panhandler because he's not holding himself up to a higher standard.

Businesses: Street people are notorious for shoplifting and leaving needles in restrooms, stairwells and urinating and defecating in doorways, etc.

Society at large: Because the culture mores' and laws aren't holding individuals up to a higher standard (being self sufficient).

A man asked me for money a couple of months ago, it was during a stretch of particularly cold weather. As I was talking to him, he started to cry - he'd been sleeping on the cold ground and his arthritic shoulders and hands were hurting so badly he was beside himself with the pain. I told him the nearby church had a food pantry and other outreach services, but he explained to me their limitations, and how even a cheap motel room cost x number of dollars a night/week and there was no place for him to go. He told me his age, and it was clear life had been hard on him because he looked much older. He held out his hands to show me how they hurt so badly he couldn't carry his possessions. I gave him the cash I had on me and the Advil I had in my purse, and he gave me his name. I said I'd find some services he could access and I've been looking for him ever since but I haven't seen him again.

There are a lot - and I mean a lot - of homeless people in my area, a lot of mentally ill, a lot of poverty - surrounded by pockets of great wealth. It's a paradox of rich and poor, the Teslas and the shopping carts.

There is no issue of a "higher standard" here. You either have a heart - or you don't. All your high and mighty "higher standards" are desiccated babbling in the face of such human misery.

[aCultureWarrior]

Quote Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
The panhandler because he's not holding himself up to a higher standard.

Businesses: Street people are notorious for shoplifting and leaving needles in restrooms, stairwells and urinating and defecating in doorways, etc.

Society at large: Because the culture mores' and laws aren't holding individuals up to a higher standard (being self sufficient).

A man asked me for money a couple of months ago, it was during a stretch of particularly cold weather. As I was talking to him, he started to cry - he'd been sleeping on the cold ground and his arthritic shoulders and hands were hurting so badly he was beside himself with the pain. I told him the nearby church had a food pantry and other outreach services, but he explained to me their limitations,

No drugs or alcohol: Limitations that many street people don't want to adhere to.
Did you ever ask this man how he ended up on the streets?

...and how even a cheap motel room cost x number of dollars a night/week and there was no place for him to go. He told me his age, and it was clear life had been hard on him because he looked much older. He held out his hands to show me how they hurt so badly he couldn't carry his possessions. I gave him the cash I had on me and the Advil I had in my purse, and he gave me his name. I said I'd find some services he could access and I've been looking for him ever since but I haven't seen him again.

There are a lot - and I mean a lot - of homeless people in my area, a lot of mentally ill, a lot of poverty - surrounded by pockets of great wealth. It's a paradox of rich and poor, the Teslas and the shopping carts.

It's an epidemic here in the Seattle area as well ("Hope n Change" liberalism/Libertariaism isn't working out well for our once great nation is it annna?)

There is no issue of a "higher standard" here. You either have a heart - or you don't. All your high and mighty "higher standards" are desiccated babbling in the face of such human misery.

The higher standard is found in the Bible. Human misery on a large scale is a result of secular humanist man's failure to acknowledge God’s Wisdom as seen in Holy Scripture. Drug and alcohol addiction, broken families, disease, poor economic conditions, etc.

Yet you liberals and your Libertarian counterparts never have the desire to learn from your failed policies. You of course feel better about your failed policies by giving a down trodden man a few bucks and some advil. I see it all of the time in this liberal bastion of a city.

[annabenedetti]

No drugs or alcohol: Limitations that many street people don't want to adhere to.

An easy way to let yourself off the hook, isn't it? Why feel compassion when self-satisfaction is so much more comfortable?

Did you ever ask this man how he ended up on the streets?

There's a time and a place for everything. If I saw him regularly, I might know eventually. Would the circumstances which led him to where he is make any difference to you? I doubt it.

The higher standard is found in the Bible. Human misery on a large scale is a result of secular humanist man's failure to acknowledge God’s Wisdom as seen in Holy Scripture. Drug and alcohol addiction, broken families, disease, poor economic conditions, etc.

Yet you liberals and your Libertarian counterparts never have the desire to learn from your failed policies. You of course feel better about your failed policies by giving a down trodden man a few bucks and some advil. I see it all of the time in this liberal bastion of a city.

No. I didn't feel better.

And if the higher standard is found in the Bible... you'd better keep searching because I don't think you've found it yet.

[patrick jane]

Street people vote Cruz

[steko]

Street people vote Cruz

I'm a dirt road person.

[aCultureWarrior]

Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
No drugs or alcohol: Limitations that many street people don't want to adhere to.

An easy way to let yourself off the hook, isn't it? Why feel compassion when self-satisfaction is so much more comfortable?

Need I go back a couple of pages and show the picture of the young panhandler holding a sign asking for beer and pot money? (Substance abuse is a huge problem amongst street people).

Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior
Did you ever ask this man how he ended up on the streets?

There's a time and a place for everything. If I saw him regularly, I might know eventually. Would the circumstances which led him to where he is make any difference to you? I doubt it.

If that time and place ever should happen and my suspicions are confirmed, come back and tell your Libertarian allies that the self ownership doctrine (“It’s MY body and I can damn well do with it as I please!”) didn’t work out well for this man.

Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior
The higher standard is found in the Bible. Human misery on a large scale is a result of secular humanist man's failure to acknowledge God’s Wisdom as seen in Holy Scripture. Drug and alcohol addiction, broken families, disease, poor economic conditions, etc.

Yet you liberals and your Libertarian counterparts never have the desire to learn from your failed policies. You of course feel better about your failed policies by giving a down trodden man a few bucks and some advil. I see it all of the time in this liberal bastion of a city.

No. I didn't feel better

Not even when you turned your back and walked away from the problem that you liberals/Libertarians have created?

And if the higher standard is found in the Bible... you'd better keep searching because I don't think you've found it yet.

Remember that I read a different Bible than what you and your fellow pagans like patrick jane read. Mine says to “love thy neighbor as you’d love yourself”, which means that I can’t very well love my neighbor and support laws that allows him to kill himself while destroying other lives as well.

[Rusha]

Did you ever ask this man how he ended up on the streets?

Have you asked? Did you believe the person? IF you asked ... why did you ask? Did you genuinely care and want to help?

[aCultureWarrior]

Quote Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior

Did you ever ask this man how he ended up on the streets?

Have you asked?

The younger ones are usually runaways from dysfunctional families (alcohol and drug abuse, sexual abuse, you know, all of the great things that Libertarian/liberal "self ownership" brings).

Did you believe the person?

I hear the same story again and again. So yes, I believe what I see and hear.

IF you asked ... why did you ask?

It's hard to relate to someone that is living such a destitute life. On occasion I ask what happened, but more importantly I let them know that there is a better way.

Did you genuinely care and want to help?

If I didn't care I wouldn't be doing the kind of work that I do nor exposing godless liberalism/Libertarianism on a internet website.

Now tell us how great the Libertarian/liberal doctrine of "self ownership"/"consensual morality" has been for our society Sandy.

[Rusha]

The younger ones are usually runaways from dysfunctional families (alcohol and drug abuse, sexual abuse

So they are *running away* from abusive situations ... does it help to kick them while they are down ... or does that just give a certain type of individual momentary satisfaction?

[aCultureWarrior]

Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior
The younger ones are usually runaways from dysfunctional families (alcohol and drug abuse, sexual abuse, you know, all of the great things that Libertarian/liberal "self ownership" brings).

So they are *running away* from abusive situations ...

Yes, the lifestyles and behaviors that you liberals/Libertarians so ardently defend does have victims Sandy.

does it help to kick them while they are down ... or does that just give a certain type of individual momentary satisfaction?

Leave it to a secular humanist such as yourself to imply that someone who tells a down trodden person that "God has a better way for you" is "kicking them while they're down".

I've helped a great many people by sending them through the criminal justice system. Granted, it's not the type of "help" that your buddy anna gives them (a buck and some advil), but then I can sleep well at night knowing that I did my very best not to destroy the lives of my fellow human beings.

[Rusha]

So they are *running away* from abusive situations ...

Yes,.

Exactly.

[aCultureWarrior]

As a seasoned secular humanist Sandy, you can do much better than that. Tell us how you can vote for a baby murdering President while still being pro life.

I just love a good internet fairytale.