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Thread: Nick M. nails it

  1. #16
    Down there with them spiders musterion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    Hmm...I don't think Paul considered that guy saved, because of what he wrote here. He was talking about how putting someone from out of the assembly might work toward their being saved down the road....after he was crucified with Christ and raised unto life.
    1 Corinthians 5
    1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. 2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you. 3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
    I respectfully disagree, beloved.

    If Paul knew the man was unsaved...or only believed that he was...based on what we know of the Ambassador's heart for the lost, which would make more sense for Paul to have prescribed?

    1. Kick the guy out of the congregation and hope he manages to hear the Gospel of grace and get saved while he's back in contact with no one but Christ-hating pagans?

    2. Get the elders at Corinth to make sure the guy had understood and had believed the Gospel of grace, and was in fact saved (or not)?

    Answer: Paul didn't do either of these. Instead, he treated the guy as if he [Paul] ASSUMED the guy was saved, though sinning grievously, and so treated him very, very harshly for his own good and the good of that stupid, carnal church that should have already dealt with him.

    The turning over to Satan was, I assume, part of Paul's apostolic authority. But would Paul even need to turn over an unbeliever to Satan? No. If unsaved, the guy would already belong to the Devil.

    I believe the guy was saved the whole time. That's the only way Paul's treatment of him makes any sense.

    Right or wrong, let iron sharpen iron!
    Not a single cluster of living fruit was, or ever will be, harvested from the tree of legality. Law can only produce “dead works,” from which we need to have conscience purged just as much as from “wicked works.”

    C. H. Mackintosh


  2. #17
    TOL Subscriber glorydaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by musterion View Post
    I respectfully disagree, beloved.

    If Paul knew the man was unsaved...or only believed that he was...based on what we know of the Ambassador's heart for the lost, which would make more sense for Paul to have prescribed?

    1. Kick the guy out of the congregation and hope he manages to hear the Gospel of grace and get saved while he's back in contact with no one but Christ-hating pagans?

    2. Get the elders at Corinth to make sure the guy had understood and had believed the Gospel of grace, and was in fact saved (or not)?

    Answer: Paul didn't do either of these. Instead, he treated the guy as if he [Paul] ASSUMED the guy was saved, though sinning grievously, and so treated him very, very harshly for his own good and the good of that stupid, carnal church that should have already dealt with him.

    The turning over to Satan was, I assume, part of Paul's apostolic authority. But would Paul even need to turn over an unbeliever to Satan? No. If unsaved, the guy would already belong to the Devil.

    I believe the guy was saved the whole time. That's the only way Paul's treatment of him makes any sense.

    Right or wrong, let iron sharpen iron!
    Well, since you're so sweet, I'll let you disagree. But, I think we are told to put them out of the congregation lest their leaven affect the whole lump. Paul has been chewing them out because they were letting him stay among them with this open sin.

    1 Cor. 5:9-13
    I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

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  4. #18
    Down there with them spiders musterion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    Well, since you're so sweet, I'll let you disagree. But, I think we are told to put them out of the congregation lest their leaven affect the whole lump. Paul has been chewing them out because they were letting him stay among them with this open sin.
    That's all true but in 2 Cor 2:7, he tells them,

    So that contrariwise ye ought rather to forgive him, and comfort him
    Forgive him for what: for sinning before he got saved? That doesn't make sense unless he was saved to begin with.
    Not a single cluster of living fruit was, or ever will be, harvested from the tree of legality. Law can only produce “dead works,” from which we need to have conscience purged just as much as from “wicked works.”

    C. H. Mackintosh


  5. #19
    Black Rifles Matter Nick M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ok doser View Post
    can one who is indwelt by Christ choose to commit immoral acts?
    Yes. The Bible has multiple examples.
    Jesus saves completely. http://www.climatedepot.com/ http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

    Titus 1

    For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, whose mouths must be stopped

    Ephesians 5

    11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret

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  7. #20
    Black Rifles Matter Nick M's Avatar
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    And one other thing. Thanks.

    This was one of those things Sozo harped on, and he is right. Paul mentions walking in the Spirit elsewhere and the "Pentecostal" bozos get it wrong. Paul tells you right there. To walk in the Spirit is knowing nothing you do justifies you. You rely on him to be set apart. And this is why so many perish. They want the glory for themselves.
    Jesus saves completely. http://www.climatedepot.com/ http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

    Titus 1

    For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, whose mouths must be stopped

    Ephesians 5

    11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to Nick M For Your Post:

    Tambora (April 22nd, 2016)

  9. #21
    Black Rifles Matter Nick M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ok doser View Post
    were they truly indwelt?

    were Ananias and Sapphira?
    They were baptized by Christ with the Holy Spirit. The Body of Christ, saints starting with Paul, are baptized into Christ by the Holy Spirit. Not the same.

    Jesus is God. The Father is God. Jesus is not the Father. The Holy Spirit is not the Father. The Holy Spirit is God.
    Jesus saves completely. http://www.climatedepot.com/ http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

    Titus 1

    For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, whose mouths must be stopped

    Ephesians 5

    11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to Nick M For Your Post:

    Tambora (April 22nd, 2016)

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