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Thread: We are not Israel, but the Body of Christ

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    Over 750 post club iamaberean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heir View Post
    The Body of Christ is not Israel, a replacement for Israel or "spiritual Israel" (as we often hear). The Body of Christ is not born again, but a "new creature" (2 Corinthians 5:17 KJV). Members of the Body of Christ are never referred to as priests, but Israel shall be an holy nation of priests (Matthew 19:28 KJV, 1 Peter 2:9 KJV). Can you think of any other differences between that of Israel and the BoC?
    yiśrâ'êl
    yis-raw-ale'
    From H8280 and H410; he will rule as God; Jisrael, a symbolical name of Jacob; also (typically) of his posterity: - Israel.
    1. Israel was a symbolic name for Jacob.

    Hos 11:1 When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.

    Mat 2:15 And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.
    2. Here, in Matthew, we see that Jesus was the son, Israel, when Hosea said Israel was the son called out of Egypt.

    Jesus is the true 'Israel' as well as the 'body of Christ'.

    Praise God I am a child of the King.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRsm12Fd0qY

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    Jesus is the true 'Israel' as well as the 'body of Christ'.
    Agreed !
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    TOL Subscriber musterion's Avatar
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    Make with the priestly instructions already, priests. Just don't claim Israel's...that's all Law.
    "There is one thing worse than going to Hell. That would be going to Hell and having it be a surprise."
    Terence Mc Lean

    [most will be very surprised]


    Everyone who has not believed the Gospel of grace is not saved, no matter what else they believe or do.
    By that measure, how many professing Christians are on their way to the Lake of Fire?

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    Quote Originally Posted by musterion View Post
    Make with the priestly instructions already, priests. Just don't claim Israel's...that's all Law.
    So you think God will take Israel back to the law?

    Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
    Rev 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

    LA

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    TOL Subscriber turbosixx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heir View Post
    The Body of Christ is not Israel, a replacement for Israel or "spiritual Israel" (as we often hear)
    If Christians aren't spiritual Israel, what is Paul talking about here?
    Phil. 3:2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision. 3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

    Gal. 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

    Col. 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands,
    Wretched man that I am.

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    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post
    If Christians aren't spiritual Israel, what is Paul talking about here?
    Phil. 3:2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision. 3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

    Gal. 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

    Col. 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands,
    In Romans, Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Colossians, and Thessalonians, Paul makes it obvious that God now has regard neither for the circumcision, nor for the uncircumcision distinction. And Phillipians is no exception.

    You read some thing else out of the Phil. 3 passage, though.

    This then sets off in your mind passages elsewhere that appear to be asserting what you have misread in Phil 3.

    But the argument that Paul is actually making in Phillipians 3 is that those dogs, and evil workers only assert they are the circumcision (people of God). That they are actually the concision.

    That if anybody is the circumcision - the true people of God, it is Paul and his followers.

    So, Paul is not saying we are the circumcision, rather, he is pointing out that those there who were asserting they are the true people of God; they bear the marks of circumcision in the flesh, are not the people of God.

    And often, Paul will borrow a principle from Scripture other than his own writings, where said principle applies, though in a different context.

    The above is an example of Paul's having done just that.

    John 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

    Pau is often doing this kind of thing and it has thrown many off in their reading of Paul's writings (including some within Mid Acts).

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    Over 750 post club achduke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    In Romans, Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Colossians, and Thessalonians, Paul makes it obvious that God now has regard neither for the circumcision, nor for the uncircumcision distinction. And Phillipians is no exception.

    You read some thing else out of the Phil. 3 passage, though.

    This then sets off in your mind passages elsewhere that appear to be asserting what you have misread in Phil 3.

    But the argument that Paul is actually making in Phillipians 3 is that those dogs, and evil workers only assert they are the circumcision (people of God). That they are actually the concision.

    That if anybody is the circumcision - the true people of God, it is Paul and his followers.

    So, Paul is not saying we are the circumcision, rather, he is pointing out that those there who were asserting they are the true people of God; they bear the marks of circumcision in the flesh, are not the people of God.

    And often, Paul will borrow a principle from Scripture other than his own writings, where said principle applies, though in a different context.

    The above is an example of Paul's having done just that.

    John 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

    Pau is often doing this kind of thing and it has thrown many off in their reading of Paul's writings (including some within Mid Acts).
    Paul is talking about Circumcision of the heart. It was always meant that Israel be circumcised in the heart.

    Deuteronomy 30:6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
    Deuteronomy 30:8 And thou shalt return and obey the voice of the LORD, and do all his commandments which I command thee this day.
    Romans 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

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    LIFETIME MEMBER tetelestai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    So, Paul is not saying we are the circumcision

    (Phil. 3:2) Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision. 3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.


    You Darby Followers never cease to amaze us with new methods of telling us how something doesn't mean what it says.
    (1 Cor 1:13 KJV) Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tetelestai View Post

    (Phil. 3:2) Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision. 3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.


    You Darby Followers never cease to amaze us with new methods of telling us how something doesn't mean what it says.
    Spam. That' rich, Tellalie, coming from a Preterist, who asserts that most of the bible is figurative, an allegory, a hyperbole, where "land" does not really mean "land," "earth" does not really mean "earth," "heaven" does not really mean "heaven," "Jerusalem" does not really mean "Jerusalem," "judging the twelve tribes" does not really mean "judging the twelve tribes," "my throne" does not really mean "my throne," "the second coming/time" means "the Roman army," "the law from Jerusalem" does not really mean.............................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ..........(about 50 pages-against TOL rules to keep going), and this "classic:"


    "The new heavens and new earth is the new covenant...............We live in the new earth, which is the new covenant…. ."-Tellalie Craigie


    You wicked Preterist deciever-even you know it.
    Last edited by john w; February 1st, 2016 at 11:39 AM.
    Saint John W

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    Quote Originally Posted by tetelestai View Post

    (Phil. 3:2) Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision. 3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.


    You Darby Followers never cease to amaze us with new methods of telling us how something doesn't mean what it says.
    Sure Paul was; if you "let the passage (only appear to) mean (to you) what it says" by ripping it not only from its immediate context, but from its overall scope.

    Its already been established - at least by some - that throughout the Scripture, the circumcision took themselves to be the true worshippers of God by the mere fact of their pedigree.

    Paul is once more asserting the opposite - that it is he and his who are the true worshippers.

    Set aside your own version of Darby rewritten by you through your Preterist lens - set it aside - and actually re-read Paul.

    The best to you in this, as you are obviouslly attempting to see in a self-imposed dark room with your eyes closed.

    Sincerely,

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    TOL Legend serpentdove's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heir View Post
    ...Members of the Body of Christ are never referred to as priests, but Israel shall be an holy nation of priests (Matthew 19:28 KJV, 1 Peter 2:9 KJV)...
    But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light [1 Pet. 2:9].

    "...We are “a royal priesthood.” Back in the Old Testament God first of all chose the entire nation of Israel to be His priests. (I believe that in the Millennium the whole nation of Israel will be priests here on this earth.) However, they sinned, and so God chose one tribe out of that nation. The priests came from this one tribe. Today there is no priesthood on earth which God recognizes—except one. Today every believer in the Lord Jesus Christ is a priest. Israel had a priesthood; today the church is a priesthood.

    When I was a pastor, I preached a message entitled, “You Are a Catholic Priest.” The word catholic means “general,” of course. In that sense every believer is a catholic priest, and all have access to God. Since we belong to Christ, we can come into His presence, into the very holy of holies. Simon Peter tells us here that we as believers are members of a royal priesthood. We are children of the King. A little later on in this epistle we will read that the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous and that He hears their prayers. Oh, how wonderful this is!" McGee, J. V. (1991). Thru the Bible commentary: The Epistles (1 Peter) (electronic ed., Vol. 54, p. 54). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

    "...[H]e says to the church, you are My new royal priesthood. Not just priests, but royal priests." Full text: The Believer's Privileges, Part 5: Election and Dominion by John MacArthur

    "Christians are a kingdom of priests, so in order to understand what that means, let’s look at what someone had to do to become a priest in the Old Testament.

    • The first thing the priest did was bathe from head to toe. This symbolized that he was saved (see Titus 3:5). When we are saved, we are bathed from head to toe in Christ’s cleansing blood.
    • After his bath, the priest received a linen garment, which symbolized the righteousness that is provided by our Lord.
    • Then he was anointed with oil, which is symbolic of the Holy Spirit..." Full text: You are in the Priesthood by Adrian Rogers

    Also see:

    Is the priesthood of all believers biblical? Does the New Testament teach that there should be a formal priesthood?

    What was the Levitical priesthood? What was the role of the Levitical priesthood in the sacrificial system?

    What does 1 Peter 2:9 mean when it refers to believers as peculiar people? What is meant by the term peculiar in regards to Christians in 1 Peter...

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    Quote Originally Posted by john w View Post
    1 Peter 2 KJV

    9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

    "And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel." Exodus 19:6 KJV


    " But ye shall be named the Priests of the LORD: men shall call you the Ministers of our God: ye shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves" Is. 61:6 KJV

    "And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the LORD." Is. 66:21 KJV


    " Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the STRANGERS(emphasis mine) scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,..." 1 Peter 1:1 KJV
    (Strangers are Jews- Genesis 23:4 KJV, Lev. 25:23 KJV,Psalms 39:12 KJV, Hebrews 11:13 KJV, 1 Peter 2:11 KJV)
    __________________________________________________ ______________________________

    "YE(emphasis mine, referring to " to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia" of 1:1) also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ." 1 Peter 2:5 KJV

    "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people.......(see Deut. 7:6 KJV"holy people", Deut. 14:2 KJV"holy people...peculiar people...above all the nations that are upon the earth", Deut. 26:18-19 KJV"peculiar people...above all nations...holy people") 1 Peter 2:9 KJV

    "And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father..." Rev. 1:6 KJV

    "And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall REIGN ON EARTH(emphasis mine-Revelation 1:1 KJV addressed to "his servants", a clear reference to Jews, the "children of Israel are servants" per Lev. 25:55 KJV, Hebrews 3:5 KJV-the body of Christ is never said to "reign on earth"-we are to reign in the heavenly places)

    "... but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years." Rev. 20:6 KJV

    Nowhere in Paul's epistles are members of the body of Christ referred to as "priests", "kings", or "a holy nation". The body of Christ is not a mediatorial body. In this "dispensation of the grace of God"(Eph. 3:2 KJV), there is "...one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus...."(1 Tim. 2:5 KJV), and his priesthood is in heaven, not on earth(Hebrews 8:4-5 KJV), and not after the law(Hebrews 7:14-28 KJV), but of the order of Melchisedec (Hebrews 5-7 KJV), not Levi. There WAS(past tense-in the future, the priesthood of Ex. 19:5-6 KJV will be fulfilled ) only one earthly priesthood divinely appointed-the priesthood after the order of Levi "according to the law"(Hebrews 7:5 KJV, Hebrews 8:4 KJV) in "time past"(Gal. 1:13 KJV, Heb. 1:1 KJV).

    One of the functions of the priesthood was access to God the Father. We now have access through the Lord Jesus Christ(Romans 5:1-2 KJV; Eph. 2:13-18 KJV; Ephesians 3:10-12 KJV). Members of the Body of Christ are "ambassadors"(2 Cor. 5:20 KJV),"ministers"(1 Cor. 3:5 KJV, 1 Cor. 4:1 KJV; 2 Cor. 6:4 KJV, 2 Cor. 11:23 KJV; 1 Tim. 4:6 KJV), "stewards of the mysteries of God"(1 Cor. 4:1 KJV), "soldiers"(Philippians 2:25 KJV, 2 Tim. 2:3-4 KJV), but are never identified as "priests", "kings", nor will we "reign on earth"(Eph. 1:3 KJV, Eph. 1:20 KJV; Eph. 2:6 KJV; Philippians 3:20 KJV; Col. 1:12-13 KJV; 1 Thes. 2:12 KJV; 2 Cor. 5:20 KJV).

    And nowhere is the Body of Christ referred to as a "holy nation", or "a chosen generation". The term "holy nation" in scripture is reserved for Israel alone-she alone was chosen and "set apart"(the meaning of "holy") by the LORD God for His use from other nations:Ex. 11:7 KJV, Ex. 19:5-6 KJV; Ex. 33:16 KJV; Lev. 20:24 KJV; Numbers 23:9 KJV;Deut. 7:6 KJV, Deut. 14:32 KJV, Deut. 26:19 KJV;2 Sam. 7:23 KJV;1 Kings 8:53 KJV;Psalms 106:4-5 KJV, Psalms 135:4 KJV. And there is only one "chosen generation"('race' in context)-Israel: Is. 43:20-21 KJV, Is. 44:1-2 KJV;Psalms 106:5 KJV.

    I know, I know.....You misguided "Bible chopper...cherry picker," MAD wacko John W, as all of the bible is specifically about you, and is directed towards you, and is for your obedience.....We will pray for you...
    Quote Originally Posted by tetelestai View Post
    Once again,you have no idea what you are talking about.

    The Levite preisthood, from the family of Aaron, ended at the cross.

    (Heb 7:11 KJV) If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?


    We now have a new priesthood.

    (Heb 7:12 KJV) For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

    Paul called them Saints.

    (Col 1:26 KJV) Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:


    Who are the Saints?

    (Dan 7:18 KJV) But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.


    Are you a Saint?

    Quit following Darby and Bullinger, and start believing what the Bible says.
    Israel is the bride of the Father. The church is the bride of the Son. There is a remnant still with us (Deut 3:11, Am 1:8). They're going to be showing their stuff soon (Re 11:3).

    "Heb 7:12–14 Since Christ is the Christian’s High-Priest and He was of the tribe of Judah, not Levi (cf. Matt. 2:1, 6; Rev. 5:5), His priesthood is clearly beyond the law which was the authority for the Levitical priesthood (cf. v. 11). This is proof that the Mosaic law had been abrogated. The Levitical system was replaced by a new Priest, offering a new sacrifice, under a New Covenant. He abrogated the law by fulfilling it (cf. Matt. 5:17) and providing the perfection which the law could never accomplish (cf. Matt. 5:20)." MacArthur, J., Jr. (Ed.). (1997). The MacArthur Study Bible (electronic ed., p. 1907). Nashville, TN: Word Pub.
    Last edited by serpentdove; June 10th, 2016 at 08:09 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by serpentdove View Post
    "Heb 7:12–14 Since Christ is the Christian’s High-Priest .
    He is not the "Christian"'s High priest-you made that up.Only a lost person needs a High Priest.
    Saint John W

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    LIFETIME MEMBER tetelestai's Avatar
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    (Heb 7:23-25) Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office; 24 but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. 25 Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.

    As we see above, Christ Jesus was given a PERMANENT Priesthood.

    Yet, the Darby Followers are claiming Christ Jesus is not a High Priest.
    (1 Cor 1:13 KJV) Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tetelestai View Post
    (Heb 7:23-25) Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office; 24 but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. 25 Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.

    As we see above, Christ Jesus was given a PERMANENT Priesthood.

    Yet, the Darby Followers are claiming Christ Jesus is not a High Priest.
    He has a permanent priesthood, for the lost, such as yourself, and other Hanegraaf followers/plagiarizing.A member of the boc, a forever justified saint, needs no high Priest, you biblical joke.


    Plagiarizing is against TOL rules, and not providing for your family, makes you an infidel, Craigie.


    Get a job.
    Saint John W

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