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View Poll Results: Is the Trinity biblical and taught in the Bible

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  • Yes

    67 62.62%
  • No

    38 35.51%
  • Not sure

    2 1.87%
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Thread: The Trinity

  1. #2431
    Over 6000 post club keypurr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marhig View Post
    Hi Keypurr

    I've just got a couple of things that I don't understand.

    If Jesus was given the spirit of Christ at baptism, who was in Jesus before his baptism?

    And why would it say in the Bible that Jesus grew stronger spirit as a child, if he didn't have the holy spirit until his baptism?

    Jesus was conceived by the holy spirit, so i believe that the holy spirit was always with him. I believe that he gained strength in the spirit as he grew and he grew stronger and stronger and by the time he was 30, after being baptised, God anointed him with power. And he was given the absolute fullness of the holy spirit and he was in the absolute image of God bodily, making him Immanuel, God with us. And there was nothing of this world or the nature of the flesh in him, because he denied it and he was sinless.

    He brought God to us and he was in the fullness of the father, with the fullness of strength and power of the spirit given to him of God. And Satan couldn't touch him. And as Satan tempted him, and he denied him, God strengthened him and God strengthened him as he suffered. And he suffered and he glorified the living God, baring witness to the truth laying down his life to bring a new and living way to us. He is the life and he is the only way back to the living God.
    Why not as yourself why he had to grow stronger if he was God? The spirit son laid the foundation of the Universe, he did not need to grow stronger.

    Sent from my SM-T330NU using TheologyOnline mobile app
    Psalm 1[/COLOR] and Job 28:28

    Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

    Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.

    I love the God of my Lord Jesus Christ

  2. #2432
    Body part Right Divider's Avatar
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    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by keypurr View Post
    What you fail to understand is Jesus came to be when he was born as a man. It was the spirit that was in him that was before the world was.
    Nonsense, as usual.

    According to your "story" what happened to the spirit that lived in Jesus BEFORE your supposed spirit came down from heaven?
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

    Has Amos 9:15 been cancelled?

    Eph 2:8-9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: (2:9) Not of works, lest any man should boast.

    The list: http://theologyonline.com/entry.php?...quot-list-quot Great Bible software: http://www.theword.net/

  3. The Following User Says Thank You to Right Divider For Your Post:

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  4. #2433
    Over 6000 post club keypurr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    Your answers aren't following the conversation exactly.

    1. Being "anointed with the Holy Ghost and with power" does not mean "possessed." Before Jesus was born David was anointed with the Spirit of the LORD (see 1 Samuel 16:13) ... so was David possessed as well?

    2. When a passage can be read more than one way, it cannot "prove" your special interpretation. Do you understand the meaning of "proof?" A proof is absolute, not requiring unproven assumptions.

    3. You have said that Christ did not give his own life willingly. You said that he gave someone else's life willingly. Jesus didn't give himself, the spirit that possessed him gave him.

    4. You totally skipped the entire section that Jesus received and accepted worship from men and angels. Thus he really is the LORD or he is blasphemous, accepting honor that is only due the LORD.
    What do you see as the POWER?

    Sent from my SM-T330NU using TheologyOnline mobile app
    Psalm 1[/COLOR] and Job 28:28

    Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

    Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.

    I love the God of my Lord Jesus Christ

  5. #2434
    Over 6000 post club keypurr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    So David was or was not possessed?
    Only Jesus was given the express image.

    Sent from my SM-T330NU using TheologyOnline mobile app
    Psalm 1[/COLOR] and Job 28:28

    Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

    Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.

    I love the God of my Lord Jesus Christ

  6. #2435
    Over 6000 post club keypurr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    The Bible says that you're either confused or a liar.
    John 1:1-14 (AKJV/PCE)
    (1:1) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (1:2) The same was in the beginning with God. (1:3) All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. (1:4) In him was life; and the life was the light of men. (1:5) And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. (1:6) ¶ There was a man sent from God, whose name [was] John. (1:7) The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all [men] through him might believe. (1:8) He was not that Light, but [was sent] to bear witness of that Light. (1:9) [That] was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. (1:10) He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. (1:11) He came unto his own, and his own received him not. (1:12) But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name: (1:13) Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. (1:14) And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

    Who is "the Word"?
    You have no depth in your understanding of what is in the verses you quote. You display that your in the darkness of religion, not theology.

    Sent from my SM-T330NU using TheologyOnline mobile app
    Psalm 1[/COLOR] and Job 28:28

    Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

    Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.

    I love the God of my Lord Jesus Christ

  7. #2436
    Body part Right Divider's Avatar
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    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by keypurr View Post
    You have no depth in your understanding of what is in the verses you quote. You display that your in the darkness of religion, not theology
    Your wrong opinion about me does not affect me. It's just as bad as your understanding of God.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

    Has Amos 9:15 been cancelled?

    Eph 2:8-9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: (2:9) Not of works, lest any man should boast.

    The list: http://theologyonline.com/entry.php?...quot-list-quot Great Bible software: http://www.theword.net/

  8. #2437
    Over 3000 post club Rosenritter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    That proverb asks about TWO NAMES. It's not talking the the name "Jesus". Your incredible lack of understanding and logic makes it virtually impossible to communication with you.
    I'd say your unwillingness (or inability) to answer straight questions might be more at fault. But regardless, try to answer that riddle. It doesn't work with Trinity presuppositions. I will concede that God was not known by the name "Jesus" until he was manifest as the Son of God, and as such "YHWH" and "Yeshua" would be the answer that I would choose. Yet John chapter 1 tells us that he who created the worlds (the "YHWH" of the riddle) is the same as he who was made flesh and walked among us.

    According to what you've said already, that would make Jesus the same as the Father. Yet there it is in the Old Testament. Again. Isaiah 9:6 names the child that is born as "Everlasting Father" and the "what is his name" riddle doubles back on itself when you include the rest of scripture. Your Trinity dogma has flaws. Because it's not taught from scripture, it's a model that was created to explain scripture.


    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    I agree with the idea there. If you're trying to accuse me of polytheism, that is false.
    It's not that I want to accuse you of polytheism, but you so adamantly maintain it as you blindly side with folk like James White.

    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    I guess that you still don't understand who "the Word" of John 1 is and what it means that "the Word as made flesh".
    Now, see there? That was an unfounded accusation. And absurd besides. Don't you get tired of that?

  9. #2438
    Over 3000 post club Rosenritter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by keypurr View Post
    Only Jesus was given the express image.

    Sent from my SM-T330NU using TheologyOnline mobile app
    I don't see where it says that Jesus was given the express image of God, I just saw where it said he was the express image of God. I think your theory is adding more than what we have been directly told.

  10. #2439
    Over 4000 post club daqq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    Nonsense, as usual.

    According to your "story" what happened to the spirit that lived in Jesus BEFORE your supposed spirit came down from heaven?
    Paul clearly states that Yeshua the Anointed one emptied himself, (Philippians 2:7 ASV).
    That is what happens when you do not actually believe Paul.

  11. #2440
    Body part Right Divider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    I'd say your unwillingness (or inability) to answer straight questions might be more at fault.
    You can have any opinion that you want, I don't really care.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    But regardless, try to answer that riddle. It doesn't work with Trinity presuppositions.
    The trinity doctrine is not a "presupposition", no matter how many times you want to repeat that opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    I will concede that God was not known by the name "Jesus" until he was manifest as the Son of God, and as such "YHWH" and "Yeshua" would be the answer that I would choose. Yet John chapter 1 tells us that he who created the worlds (the "YHWH" of the riddle) is the same as he who was made flesh and walked among us.
    I get the feeling that you're another GT. Is it your opinion that "the Father with a body" makes a "son".

    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    According to what you've said already, that would make Jesus the same as the Father. Yet there it is in the Old Testament. Again. Isaiah 9:6 names the child that is born as "Everlasting Father" and the "what is his name" riddle doubles back on itself when you include the rest of scripture. Your Trinity dogma has flaws. Because it's not taught from scripture, it's a model that was created to explain scripture.
    So are the Father and Son related (along with the Holy Spirit)? Are "THESE THREE" one?

    It appears that according to you that there are not three at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    It's not that I want to accuse you of polytheism, but you so adamantly maintain it as you blindly side with folk like James White.
    AGAIN you make the false accusation that I side with James White. I do not associate myself with James White, but don't let that stop your false accusations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    Now, see there? That was an unfounded accusation. And absurd besides. Don't you get tired of that?
    So how do you get to the "these three are one", if you never actually have three in the first place?

    Are you and GT in agreement that "the Father with a body" constitutes TWO of the THREE?
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

    Has Amos 9:15 been cancelled?

    Eph 2:8-9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: (2:9) Not of works, lest any man should boast.

    The list: http://theologyonline.com/entry.php?...quot-list-quot Great Bible software: http://www.theword.net/

  12. #2441
    Over 4000 post club daqq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daqq View Post
    Originally Posted by Right Divider
    Nonsense, as usual.

    According to your "story" what happened to the spirit that lived in Jesus BEFORE your supposed spirit came down from heaven?
    Paul clearly states that Yeshua the Anointed one emptied himself, (Philippians 2:7 ASV).
    That is what happens when you do not actually believe Paul.


    Philippians 2:7 T/R
    7 αλλ εαυτον εκενωσε μορφην δουλου λαβων εν ομοιωματι ανθρωπων γενομενος

    Philippians 2:7 W/H
    7 αλλα εαυτον εκενωσεν μορφην δουλου λαβων εν ομοιωματι ανθρωπων γενομενος και σχηματι ευρεθεις ως ανθρωπος


    BDB - Strong's Greek Definition for # 2758
    2758 // kenow // kenoo // ken-o'-o //
    from 2756 ; TDNT - 3:661,426; v
    AV - make void 2, make of none effect 1, make of no reputation 1,
    be in vain 1; 5
    1) to empty, make empty
    1a) of Christ, he laid aside equality with or the form of God
    2) to make void
    2a) deprive of force, render vain, useless, of no effect
    3) to make void
    3b) cause a thing to be seen to be empty, hollow, false
    http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bi...reek&stnm=2758

    Strong's Concordance
    kenoó: to empty
    Original Word: κενόω
    Part of Speech: Verb
    Transliteration: kenoó
    Phonetic Spelling: (ken-o'-o)
    Short Definition: I empty, deprive of content, make unreal
    Definition: (a) I empty, (b) I deprive of content, make unreal.
    http://biblehub.com/greek/2758.htm

    HELPS Word-studies
    Cognate: 2758 kenóō – properly, to empty out, render void; (passive) be emptied – hence, without recognition, perceived as valueless (Phil 2:7). See 2756 (kenos).
    http://biblehub.com/greek/2758.htm

    NAS Exhaustive Concordance
    Word Origin
    from kenos
    Definition
    to empty
    NASB Translation
    emptied (1), made empty (1), made void (2), make...empty (1).
    http://biblehub.com/greek/2758.htm

    Thayer's Greek Lexicon
    STRONGS NT 2758: κενόω
    κενόω, κενῷ: (future κενώσω, 1 Corinthians 9:15 L text T Tr WH); 1 aorist ἐκενωσα; passive, perfect κεκνωμαι; 1 aorist ἐκενωθην;
    1. to empty, make empty: ἑαυτόν ἐκένωσε, namely, τοῦ εἶναι ἴσα Θεῷ or τῆς μορφῆς τοῦ Θεοῦ, i. e. he laid aside equality with or the form of God (said of Christ), Philippians 2:7 (see a fuller exposition of this passage in
    2. to make void i. e. deprive of force, render vain, useless, of no effect: passive, Romans 4:14; 1 Corinthians 1:17.
    3. to make void i. e. cause a thing to be seen to be empty, hollow, false: τό καύχημα, 1 Corinthians 9:15; passive 2 Corinthians 9:3. (Twice in the Sept. viz. Jeremiah 14:2; Jeremiah 15:9; often in Attic writings.)
    http://biblehub.com/greek/2758.htm

    Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
    empty, make void, be in vain.
    From kenos; to make empty, i.e. (figuratively) to abase, neutralize, falsify -- make (of none effect, of no reputation, void), be in vain.
    see GREEK kenos
    http://biblehub.com/greek/2758.htm

    Philippians 2:7 ASV
    7 but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men;

    And the definitions which insert the idea that Yeshua "laid aside his equality with God" are nothing more than expositors inserting their own heretical divisive dogma into the definition. It is utterly ridiculous to even suggest that God laid aside his equality with God to be filled with the Holy Spirit of God. Hence it is perfectly obvious to anyone with half a brain that even the definitions are not immune to the Trinitarian bias.
    Last edited by daqq; August 2nd, 2016 at 03:10 PM.

  13. #2442
    Over 6000 post club keypurr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    I don't see where it says that Jesus was given the express image of God, I just saw where it said he was the express image of God. I think your theory is adding more than what we have been directly told.
    The express image is as close to being God's one could be. He has the fullness of his creator. God created all through him. Christ (express image) is the son in Heb 1, Col 1 and spoken of in Phil 2. He is a spirit, not a man. Genesis 1 say the spirit of God mover across the face of the waters. I question that is the same spirit for God did everything through his son Christ.

    When I first realized this I thought I was crazy. But the more I looked into it the more I was convinced that this is true. The shoe fits very well with scripture. I Sincerly feel I was given these thoughts, why? To share and teach that there is only one True God and one Lord Jesus Christ. These are the we/us/our mentioned in Genesis.

    Sent from my SM-T330NU using TheologyOnline mobile app
    Psalm 1[/COLOR] and Job 28:28

    Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

    Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.

    I love the God of my Lord Jesus Christ

  14. #2443
    Over 6000 post club keypurr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    The Bible says that you're either confused or a liar.
    John 1:1-14 (AKJV/PCE)
    (1:1) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (1:2) The same was in the beginning with God. (1:3) All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. (1:4) In him was life; and the life was the light of men. (1:5) And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. (1:6) ¶ There was a man sent from God, whose name [was] John. (1:7) The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all [men] through him might believe. (1:8) He was not that Light, but [was sent] to bear witness of that Light. (1:9) [That] was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. (1:10) He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. (1:11) He came unto his own, and his own received him not. (1:12) But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name: (1:13) Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. (1:14) And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

    Who is "the Word"?
    The WORD or logos I understand to be the Miltha.

    That is the spiritual son, the express image. Singular godlike spirit.

    Most think it is Jesus but it is not. It is the spirit he was given at his anointing. The spirit became flesh. The spirit was sent from heaven. That spirit is the Son of Man.

    God was not born in Bethlehem, Jesus was. He is the body God prepared for the spirit son.
    Psalm 1[/COLOR] and Job 28:28

    Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

    Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.

    I love the God of my Lord Jesus Christ

  15. #2444
    Over 6000 post club keypurr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    Nonsense, as usual.

    According to your "story" what happened to the spirit that lived in Jesus BEFORE your supposed spirit came down from heaven?
    Define the Dove if you can.

    Jesus became the Christ when Christ went IN him.

    Got to drive the old folks again in the morning so I got to say good nite for now.

    Blessings to all
    Psalm 1[/COLOR] and Job 28:28

    Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

    Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.

    I love the God of my Lord Jesus Christ

  16. #2445
    Over 3000 post club Rosenritter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    You should put an EXCLAMATION POINT if you're going to make demands!
    I answered your question. Can't help that you wasted yours on something stupid. So you will spend five posts refusing to answer and asking for an explanation point, and still won't answer?

    ... but that is one impressive exclamation point. Now, can you manage an EXPLANATION point, and answer the question?

    When does the SCRIPTURE say that Jesus was begotten of the Father? Not what "Trinity" says, what does scripture actually say? Cite the specific reference that you use to form your answer. Don't add more than what it actually says.
    Last edited by Rosenritter; August 3rd, 2016 at 01:02 AM.

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