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View Poll Results: Is the Trinity biblical and taught in the Bible

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Thread: The Trinity

  1. #15661
    Silver Member JudgeRightly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by keypurr View Post
    Show me the words "God the Son" in the scriptures.

    Sent from my SM-T330NU using TOL mobile app

    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    Spoiler
    No, because that's not what I said.
    Read my post again:


    I said that God the Son submits to God the Father, and both are glorified.

    Both together, along with the Person the Holy Spirit, are God. All three make up the Triune God. The Son is equal to the Father and the Holy Spirit. The Father is equal to the Son and the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is equal to the Father and the Son.



    - In Matthew 28:19, Jesus says go and baptise in the name (singular), but then gives 3 persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. One name, three Persons.
    What is the name of God? Moses records in Exodus 3 God telling him to tell the Israelites that the God of their fathers had sent him, and that if they asked what His name was, God told Moses to tell them that "I AM" had sent him. "I AM WHO I AM." Another name we know Him by is YHWH. YHWH, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
    - The Bible presents God as being the only true God, but from the beginning of the Bible, it presents Him as a plurality.
    - "In the beginning Elohim (plural noun) created (singular verb)"
    - "Let us make man in our image and our likeness." This is not just an example of the "royal we," but the origin, describing God as a plurality.
    - In Hebrew, there are different words for "one", the one used in Genesis 2:24 ('echad'), "the two shall become one flesh", means one of plurality, and is the same word used in Deuteronomy 6:4, "The LORD our God, the LORD is one ('echad')." The LORD is one (of plurality).
    - "Then the LORD rained brimstone and fire . . . from the LORD out of the heavens." (Genesis 19:24)
    That's just a few examples from the Old Testament...

    But how about the New Testament?
    - "Thus saith the LORD" in the Old Testament is replaced with "I say unto you" said by Jesus in the New Testament.
    And so many other things that Jesus said that no man nor angel could say and remain righteous. (see kgov.com/deity for a full list)
    - The fact that the Father is God is undisputed by even the cults that deny Christ's deity... But what about the Holy Spirit?
    - But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the price of the land for yourself?While it remained, was it not your own? And after it was sold, was it not in your own control? Why have you conceived this thing in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.” - Acts 5:3-4 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...4&version=NKJV
    - Now in the church that was at Antioch there were certain prophets and teachers: Barnabas, Simeon who was called Niger, Lucius of Cyrene, Manaen who had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul.As they ministered to the Lord and fasted, the Holy Spirit said, “Now separate to Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.”Then, having fasted and prayed, and laid hands on them, they sent them away. - Acts 13:1-3 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...3&version=NKJV
    - this passage shows that when one lies to the Holy Spirit, he lies to God.
    - you cannot sin against a force, you can sin against a person
    - a neuter doesn't speak, but a person does speak
    - objects don't get sinned against
    - The Holy Spirit is an individual person, the third Person of the Trinity.
    - The Holy Spirit cares if we sin against Him
    - And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. - Ephesians 4:30 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...0&version=NKJV
    - “ You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you. - Acts 7:51 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...1&version=NKJV
    - Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? - Hebrews 10:29 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...9&version=NKJV
    - But the Holy Spirit also witnesses to us; for after He had said before, - Hebrews 10:15 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...5&version=NKJV
    - To be a person requires a will (no, having a will does not mean that an entity is a person)
    - The Holy Spirit has a will:
    - But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills. - 1 Corinthians 12:11 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...1&version=NKJV

    Do I need to go on?



    Marhig, "Christ" (or rather, "Christos") is Greek for the Hebrew word for "Messiah". "Messiah" means 'anointed one.' Jesus was not anointed until He was 30 years of age. Again, "Christ" is a title, not a name. You wouldn't call someone anointed one if he wasn't anointed, would you?



    Correct. But he was ALSO God.



    So Jesus was always 'anointed one'? Or did He take on that title when he was anointed at His baptism by John, by the Holy Spirit?



    Here is what Simeon said:

    “Lord, now You are letting Your servant depart in peace, According to Your word;For my eyes have seen Your salvationWhich You have prepared before the face of all peoples,A light to bring revelation to the Gentiles, And the glory of Your people Israel.” - Luke 2:29-32 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...2&version=NKJV

    I don't see "Christ" in there. It's mentioned a few verses earlier, but Simeon did not call Jesus the Christ, but his salvation.



    Who was Jesus' father, Marhig? God the Father? or Joseph? What does this passage say?

    His parents went to Jerusalem every year at the Feast of the Passover.And when He was twelve years old, they went up to Jerusalem according to the custom of the feast.When they had finished the days, as they returned, the Boy Jesus lingered behind in Jerusalem. And Joseph and His mother did not know it;but supposing Him to have been in the company, they went a day’s journey, and sought Him among their relatives and acquaintances.So when they did not find Him, they returned to Jerusalem, seeking Him.Now so it was that after three days they found Him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the teachers, both listening to them and asking them questions.And all who heard Him were astonished at His understanding and answers.So when they saw Him, they were amazed; and His mother said to Him, “Son, why have You done this to us? Look, Your father and I have sought You anxiously.”And He said to them, “Why did you seek Me? Did you not know that I must be about My Father’s business?”But they did not understand the statement which He spoke to them. - Luke 2:41-50 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...0&version=NKJV



    You are a hypocrite because you judged us for judging Keypurr. A hypocrite is someone who tells people not to do something and then does it himself/herself. Don't be a hypocrite. Judge with righteous judgment.



    Prove it.



    See above. I never said that the Bible has the word Trinity, nor have I claimed that the phrase "God the Son" is in the Bible. If I remember correctly, I said something along the lines of "it doesn't explicitly state that God is triune, but that the Bible does teach it throughout."
    Spoiler




    I literally just explained this to you. See above.



    No argument there.



    No, Marhig, what you say to believe is not what Scripture says to believe.

  2. #15662
    Over 6000 post club keypurr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    Jesus was a PERFECT man and GOD!

    Jesus did NOT have a "sinful nature". Adam was not created with a "sinful nature". Adams nature changed when he sinned.

    As a man, Jesus was an Israelite and they have a God (as do all men).

    Do you really think that God will give ALL JUDGEMENT to any man?

    John 5:22-23 (AKJV/PCE)
    (5:22) For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: (5:23) That all [men] should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

    This is just another CLEAR statement of the DEITY of Jesus. Or do you somehow think that a man can receive the SAME HONOR due to GOD?
    Yep, ya can't fix stupid. Wish I could.

    Sent from my SM-T330NU using TOL mobile app
    Psalm 1[/COLOR] and Job 28:28

    Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

    Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.

    I love the God of my Lord Jesus Christ

  3. #15663
    Over 6000 post club keypurr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bright Raven View Post
    Jesus is God. It is very clear through scripture.


    John 1:1, 14

    Why is it that people deny that which is made perfectly clear.
    Nope, not clear at all.

    John 1:1, 14 are not about Jesus.

    Sent from my SM-T330NU using TOL mobile app
    Psalm 1[/COLOR] and Job 28:28

    Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

    Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.

    I love the God of my Lord Jesus Christ

  4. #15664
    Silver Member JudgeRightly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by keypurr View Post
    Nope, not clear at all.

    John 1:1, 14 are not about Jesus.

    Sent from my SM-T330NU using TOL mobile app
    Denying something doesn't make it false, Keypurr. Saying something doesn't make it true.

    The onus is on you to prove that those verses about Jesus are not about Him.

  5. #15665
    Over 6000 post club keypurr's Avatar
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    Then you have no evidence to back up your statement. Just assumptions.

    Go look up the words LORD, Lord and lord.

    Sent from my SM-T330NU using TOL mobile app
    Psalm 1[/COLOR] and Job 28:28

    Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

    Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.

    I love the God of my Lord Jesus Christ

  6. #15666
    Silver Member JudgeRightly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by keypurr View Post
    Then you have no evidence to back up your statement. Just assumptions.

    Go look up the words LORD, Lord and lord.

    Sent from my SM-T330NU using TOL mobile app
    Go read the rest of the post that is behind the "Spoiler" buttons. Plenty of proof, should you care to read it.

  7. #15667
    Over 6000 post club keypurr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    Denying something doesn't make it false, Keypurr. Saying something doesn't make it true.

    The onus is on you to prove that those verses about Jesus are not about Him.
    If Jesus was flesh these verses can not be about him. Think

    Sent from my SM-T330NU using TOL mobile app
    Psalm 1[/COLOR] and Job 28:28

    Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

    Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.

    I love the God of my Lord Jesus Christ

  8. #15668
    Silver Member JudgeRightly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by keypurr View Post
    If Jesus was flesh these verses can not be about him. Think

    Sent from my SM-T330NU using TOL mobile app
    John 1:14: "The Word became flesh and dwelt among us"

    Where's the issue? If the Word, God the Son, became flesh, in other words, he was conceived into flesh by the coming upon of the Holy Spirit in Mary (Luke 1:35), and was then later named Jesus (Luke 2:31), then there's no issue at all, no discontinuity.

    Your theory doesn't hold up to scripture, Keypurr.

    Now, in order for your theory to be true, you (yes you, Keypurr) would have to show, using Scripture, that Jesus was never a spirit prior to his conception. However, that can't be done, so your theory has nothing to stand on. In fact, the Bible states the exact opposite of your beliefs, that Jesus did in fact exist prior to His conception in Mary's womb.

    Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do.And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was. - John 17:1-5 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...5&version=NKJV

    Jesus Himself states that He existed with the Father before the world was.

    Then He who sat on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” And He said to me, “Write, for these words are true and faithful.”And He said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts.He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son.But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” - Revelation 21:5-8 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...8&version=NKJV

    Who is the one who sits on the throne?

    Jesus.

    We know it is Jesus because He calls Himself "The Alpha and Omega" multiple times in Revelation:

    “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.” - Revelation 1:8 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...8&version=NKJV

    saying, “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last,” and, “What you see, write in a book and send it to the seven churches which are in Asia: to Ephesus, to Smyrna, to Pergamos, to Thyatira, to Sardis, to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.” - Revelation 1:11 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...1&version=NKJV

    We know it's Jesus speaking because the text (apart from being in red letters, if you have a red letter Bible) states that it is Jesus speaking. Don't believe me? Just read Revelation 1.

    What does he say in 21:7?

    "I will be his God and he shall be My son."

    Jesus Himself calls Himself God. If it were anyone other than God saying that, it would be blasphemy.

    So, Keypurr, How about you give up your false beliefs, and believe that Jesus is God, the Son of God, the Son of Man, and the Word, and that He has existed for all eternity past as God.

  9. #15669
    Over 6000 post club keypurr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    John 1:14: "The Word became flesh and dwelt among us"

    Where's the issue? If the Word, God the Son, became flesh, in other words, he was conceived into flesh by the coming upon of the Holy Spirit in Mary (Luke 1:35), and was then later named Jesus (Luke 2:31), then there's no issue at all, no discontinuity.

    Your theory doesn't hold up to scripture, Keypurr.

    Now, in order for your theory to be true, you (yes you, Keypurr) would have to show, using Scripture, that Jesus was never a spirit prior to his conception. However, that can't be done, so your theory has nothing to stand on. In fact, the Bible states the exact opposite of your beliefs, that Jesus did in fact exist prior to His conception in Mary's womb.

    Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

    Jesus was born in the flesh,not the spirit.

    The WORD (logos)is a spirit, for God is a spirit and the logos is an express image of God.

    Lets go deeper:

    Php 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
    Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
    Php 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

    The logos was Jesus, notice again, IN Jesus, Jesus is not the logos,

    Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
    Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

    1. It says Son (not Jesus)
    2. Express Image of a spirit is a spirit.

    Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
    Heb 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
    Heb 1:10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

    Are you still burying your head in the sand?

    Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
    Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
    Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

    firstborn of all CREATURES

    Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
    Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
    Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
    Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

    He I a created form of of.

    Jesus was BORN flesh, he did not become flesh. He did not come down from heaven at his birth. The Son of Man came down from above, right from his God.




    Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do.And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was. - John 17:1-5 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...5&version=NKJV

    Jesus Himself states that He existed with the Father before the world was.
    The logos spoke through Jesus.

    Joh_14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

    Joh_17:8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.



    Then He who sat on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” And He said to me, “Write, for these words are true and faithful.”And He said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts.He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son.But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” - Revelation 21:5-8 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...8&version=NKJV

    Who is the one who sits on the throne?

    Jesus.
    Questionable

    We know it is Jesus because He calls Himself "The Alpha and Omega" multiple times in Revelation:

    “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.” - Revelation 1:8 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...8&version=NKJV

    saying, “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last,” and, “What you see, write in a book and send it to the seven churches which are in Asia: to Ephesus, to Smyrna, to Pergamos, to Thyatira, to Sardis, to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.” - Revelation 1:11 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...1&version=NKJV

    We know it's Jesus speaking because the text (apart from being in red letters, if you have a red letter Bible) states that it is Jesus speaking. Don't believe me? Just read Revelation 1.

    What does he say in 21:7?

    "I will be his God and he shall be My son."

    Jesus Himself calls Himself God. If it were anyone other than God saying that, it would be blasphemy.

    So, Keypurr, How about you give up your false beliefs, and believe that Jesus is God, the Son of God, the Son of Man, and the Word, and that He has existed for all eternity past as God.
    You just love to assume.
    Psalm 1[/COLOR] and Job 28:28

    Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

    Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.

    I love the God of my Lord Jesus Christ

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    Silver Member patrick jane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by keypurr View Post
    Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

    Jesus was born in the flesh,not the spirit.

    The WORD (logos)is a spirit, for God is a spirit and the logos is an express image of God.

    Lets go deeper:

    Php 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
    Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
    Php 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

    The logos was Jesus, notice again, IN Jesus, Jesus is not the logos,

    Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
    Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

    1. It says Son (not Jesus)
    2. Express Image of a spirit is a spirit.

    Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
    Heb 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
    Heb 1:10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

    Are you still burying your head in the sand?

    Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
    Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
    Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

    firstborn of all CREATURES

    Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
    Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
    Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
    Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

    He I a created form of of.

    Jesus was BORN flesh, he did not become flesh. He did not come down from heaven at his birth. The Son of Man came down from above, right from his God.





    The logos spoke through Jesus.

    Joh_14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

    Joh_17:8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.





    Questionable



    You just love to assume.
    Express image means - exactly the same
    1 Corinthians 15:1-2 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV -


    Colossians 1:13-14 KJV - Colossians 1:15-16 KJV - Colossians 1:17-18 KJV -

    Colossians 1:19-20 KJV - Colossians 1:21-22 KJV - Colossians 1:23 KJV -

    Colossians 1:25-26 KJV 27, 28, 29 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Ephesians 1:12-13, 14 -



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    Over 6000 post club keypurr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by patrick jane View Post
    Express image means - exactly the same
    Nope, it means exact copy of in all ways. A creation. A Copy of the original. And God was pleased that his son had his fullness. Why would he tell us that?


    Sent from my iPad using TOL
    Psalm 1[/COLOR] and Job 28:28

    Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

    Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.

    I love the God of my Lord Jesus Christ

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    Quote Originally Posted by keypurr View Post
    Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

    Jesus was born in the flesh,not the spirit.

    The WORD (logos)is a spirit, for God is a spirit and the logos is an express image of God.

    Lets go deeper:

    Php 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
    Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
    Php 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

    The logos was Jesus, notice again, IN Jesus, Jesus is not the logos,

    Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
    Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

    1. It says Son (not Jesus)
    2. Express Image of a spirit is a spirit.

    Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
    Heb 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
    Heb 1:10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

    Are you still burying your head in the sand?

    Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
    Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
    Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

    firstborn of all CREATURES

    Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
    Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
    Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
    Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

    He I a created form of of.

    Jesus was BORN flesh, he did not become flesh. He did not come down from heaven at his birth. The Son of Man came down from above, right from his God.





    The logos spoke through Jesus.

    Joh_14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

    Joh_17:8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.





    Questionable



    You just love to assume.
    I find it just fascinating that you use verse after verse that doesn't contradict a thing that Trinitarians believe and somehow turn them into arguments (in your own mind that is). I've never understood how that happens exactly.

    At any rate, I'd just like to ask you a simple question.

    What's the big deal?

    Those who hold to the doctrine of the Trinity do not believe in more than one God, no matter how much you have a desire to insist otherwise. They believe that Jesus is the Creator of all that has been created. They believe that because the bible says it explicitly. They also believe that there is only one singular God. They can't explain it because the bible doesn't explain it. Some go so far as to openly believe a blatant contradiction but the more I look into it, the more it seems that this is a minority view, at least among Protestant believers. They can't explain it but they accept it as true because they believe that the Bible teaches true things.

    So what's the big deal here, exactly? Why is this the hill you've decided to die on? It cannot be denied that John chapter one makes the claim that Jesus is the Creator and it cannot be denied that God is the Creator. Therefore Jesus is God! If A=B and B=C then A=C. Why is that such are big pill for you to swallow?

    And I'm really asking, by the way. I'm not trying to make a failed argument. I really want to know where the rub is for you on this issue.

    Resting in Him,
    Clete
    "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

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    Quote Originally Posted by keypurr View Post
    Tell us about them.

    I post that and you say I'm a heritic.
    The LORD Jesus Christ had two natures at the time of His birth.

    There was no "christ takeover" at a later time.

    THAT is why you are a heretic.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

    Has Amos 9:15 been cancelled?

    Eph 2:8-9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: (2:9) Not of works, lest any man should boast.

    The list: http://theologyonline.com/entry.php?...quot-list-quot Great Bible software: http://www.theword.net/

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    Quote Originally Posted by keypurr View Post
    Yep, ya can't fix stupid. Wish I could.
    Everything that I said was truth, you lying heretic.

    I notice that you have NO come back but to be stupid and lie.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

    Has Amos 9:15 been cancelled?

    Eph 2:8-9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: (2:9) Not of works, lest any man should boast.

    The list: http://theologyonline.com/entry.php?...quot-list-quot Great Bible software: http://www.theword.net/

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  19. #15675
    Over 6000 post club keypurr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clete View Post
    I find it just fascinating that you use verse after verse that doesn't contradict a thing that Trinitarians believe and somehow turn them into arguments (in your own mind that is). I've never understood how that happens exactly.

    At any rate, I'd just like to ask you a simple question.

    What's the big deal?

    Those who hold to the doctrine of the Trinity do not believe in more than one God, no matter how much you have a desire to insist otherwise. They believe that Jesus is the Creator of all that has been created. They believe that because the bible says it explicitly. They also believe that there is only one singular God. They can't explain it because the bible doesn't explain it. Some go so far as to openly believe a blatant contradiction but the more I look into it, the more it seems that this is a minority view, at least among Protestant believers. They can't explain it but they accept it as true because they believe that the Bible teaches true things.

    So what's the big deal here, exactly? Why is this the hill you've decided to die on? It cannot be denied that John chapter one makes the claim that Jesus is the Creator and it cannot be denied that God is the Creator. Therefore Jesus is God! If A=B and B=C then A=C. Why is that such are big pill for you to swallow?

    And I'm really asking, by the way. I'm not trying to make a failed argument. I really want to know where the rub is for you on this issue.

    Resting in Him,
    Clete
    The big deal is YHWH is the only true God.
    Our Lord Jesus Christ is not God, he has a God.
    Since there is only one God, Christ is not God.
    To make him so is to break the commandments of God.

    Jesus is the flesh Son of God.
    That in itself does not make him God.
    The Son of the King is not King.

    The logos is the spirit Son of God.
    It is God's first creation for ALL things were created through it.
    He was given the power and fullness of his God, he is a created form of God, but he is not God.

    Jesus Christ taught us that ONLY HIS FATHER IS THE TRUE GOD, why do folks try to change his words? If you believe in Christ you need to listen to him and his Apostles, not the church which not longer represents his teachings.


    Sent from my iPad using TOL
    Psalm 1[/COLOR] and Job 28:28

    Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

    Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.

    I love the God of my Lord Jesus Christ

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