User Tag List

View Poll Results: Is the Trinity biblical and taught in the Bible

Voters
107. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    67 62.62%
  • No

    38 35.51%
  • Not sure

    2 1.87%
Page 966 of 1186 FirstFirst ... 46686691695696396496596696796896997610161066 ... LastLast
Results 14,476 to 14,490 of 17786

Thread: The Trinity

  1. #14476
    Over 4000 post club
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    4,047
    Thanks
    1,774
    Thanked 1,015 Times in 836 Posts

    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    106541
    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    Nope, it doesn't shame me at all. I know the difference between a brother and sister in Christ, and you who prove you are false brethren by the way you deny what is plainly written while coming up with your own nonsensical theories.
    Oh? So what do I deny then?

    List the things.

    I'll wait.

  2. #14477
    Over 4000 post club
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    4,047
    Thanks
    1,774
    Thanked 1,015 Times in 836 Posts

    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    106541
    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    Nope, it doesn't shame me at all. I know the difference between a brother and sister in Christ, and you who prove you are false brethren by the way you deny what is plainly written while coming up with your own nonsensical theories.
    I assure you I have come up with nothing. To what profit would it be for me to make up doctrine?

    I would understand if I was running around telling people that those perfected by Christ sin in the flesh, as such is clearly against all scripture. But I don't.

    So..... What do you think I made up or imagined?

    Let's go over them together.

  3. #14478
    TOL Subscriber glorydaz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    16,653
    Thanks
    6,759
    Thanked 23,496 Times in 11,875 Posts

    Blog Entries
    1
    Mentioned
    55 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)


    Rep Power
    2147720
    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    I think I understand what Glory is saying. You, Pops, being a man, already clearly see and understand the Godhead. That's what it said, right?

    Romans 1:20 KJV
    (20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

    Unless what Glory meant was that she clearly understands the Godhead but you do not. That could be it also.
    Such a wild imagination you people have. YOU UNDERSTAND NOTHING.

    All people have been created to know God, but it takes years for the proud among us to put off that which has been shown them. The little children know what you don't.

    We see this when you folks do not glorify our Saviour as God, when you do not glorify the Holy Spirit as God....vain in your IMAGINATIONS, and your foolish heart is darkened.

    Romans 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

    Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

    Look at you people...refusing to recognize the Godhead, refusing to admit that Jesus is God, making all these statements showing you do not understand how God is triune. You dispute the very verses that believers recognize as Father, Son, and Spirit being the ONE GOD, with one name.

    Oh, you PEOPLE say...."three people" "how can three people fit into one man". If that isn't making God into an image of man, I don't know what is.

    Romans 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man,

  4. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to glorydaz For Your Post:

    JudgeRightly (August 13th, 2017),lifeisgood (August 13th, 2017),steko (August 12th, 2017)

  5. #14479
    Over 4000 post club
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    4,047
    Thanks
    1,774
    Thanked 1,015 Times in 836 Posts

    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    106541
    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    Such a wild imagination you people have. YOU UNDERSTAND NOTHING.

    All people have been created to know God, but it takes years for the proud among us to put off that which has been shown them. The little children know what you don't.

    We see this when you folks do not glorify our Saviour as God, when you do not glorify the Holy Spirit as God....vain in your IMAGINATIONS, and your foolish heart is darkened.

    Romans 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

    Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

    Look at you people...refusing to recognize the Godhead, refusing to admit that Jesus is God, making all these statements showing you do not understand how God is triune. You dispute the very verses that believers recognize as Father, Son, and Spirit being the ONE GOD, with one name.

    Oh, you PEOPLE say...."three people" "how can three people fit into one man". If that isn't making God into an image of man, I don't know what is.

    Romans 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man,
    For you to say"YOU UNDERSTAND NOTHING." is vanity and pride based on assumption and presupposition spoon fed to you by the hands of men with their own secret proud motives.

    Let's go over your choice of words shall we? You said; "All people have been created to know God, but it takes years for

    ( the proud among us to put off that which has been shown them) "

    I agree with that statement but it seems rather unfinished. I'm pretty sure you were implying that it was shown them by the hands of man. So I ask; who did your beliefs come from? What was the actual initial source that was readily and obviously responsible for your specific beliefs? It's rhetorical really as I'm quite sure your beliefs stemmed from your upbringing. I won't be delving into that direction any further as to not offend you, bit would as that you consider your blanket statements and words and judgements; and if you don't understand those things to be weighed against you, then perhaps you should consider it.


    "We see this when you folks do not glorify our Saviour as God,"

    Who denies that Christ is the Savior?

    "when you do not glorify the Holy Spirit as God"

    Who says the Spirit of GOD isn't the Spirit of GOD, and the fullness there of? Is it not the Trinidadian?

    "....vain in your IMAGINATIONS, and your foolish heart is darkened"

    The vain imagining is that mortal man (image of GOD) is the utter fullness of GOD rather than the chosen, formed, blessed vessel/ temple of the Spirit of GOD which is the fullness of GOD. Who is guilty of that I won't say, because I am no righteous judge.
    Yet, moreover; if ones heart is darkened then they promote depredation of the spirit as if righteousness, quite saddening and too, telling.

    "INDENT]Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,[/INDENT]"
    Who among us claims to be wise?
    Ask yourself, really. (I am not saying you do, or are at this time).

    "Look at you people...refusing to recognize the Godhead, refusing to admit that Jesus is God, making all these statements showing you do not understand how God is triune. You dispute the very verses that believers recognize as Father, Son, and Spirit being the ONE GOD, with one name."

    The needless division of the congregation that you willingly propagate is against what is true. I understand the Trinity doctrine wholly, yet do not deam it necessary for salvation, and I do not equate the son to the fullness of GOD, which any real trinitarian will tell you is accurate because he is only one third. So your argument falls on itself before it is even started. Not that Christ isn't the utter fullness of GOD; just that man is not. You claiming someone doesn't understand a thing that they most likely understand more than you is further proof of your own pride.

    I'm pretty sure no one here is disputing the verses; just the meanings you ascribe to them, quite carelessly I might add.


    "Oh, you PEOPLE say...."three people" "how can three people fit into one man".

    Who said that? Who says we must call GOD he? Who limits GOD to three separate PERSONS in order to be full? Who then claims that fullness is actually too really just one person?

    "If that isn't making God into an image of man, I don't know what is."

    Agreed

    "INDENT]Romans 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man,[/INDENT]"

    I hope you read without bias and with comprehension....within context.


    Believe it or not;
    peace

  6. #14480
    TOL Subscriber glorydaz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    16,653
    Thanks
    6,759
    Thanked 23,496 Times in 11,875 Posts

    Blog Entries
    1
    Mentioned
    55 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)


    Rep Power
    2147720
    Quote Originally Posted by popsthebuilder View Post
    For you to say"YOU UNDERSTAND NOTHING." is vanity and pride based on assumption and presupposition spoon fed to you by the hands of men with their own secret proud motives.


    Let's go over your choice of words shall we? You said; "All people have been created to know God, but it takes years for

    ( the proud among us to put off that which has been shown them) "
    I meant what I said, and it's what Paul says in Romans 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

    As people grow up and older, they get too big for their britches. They start professing themselves to be wise, and put off the knowledge God created them with...."being clearly seen" and "understood" by the created.

    Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

    I agree with that statement but it seems rather unfinished. I'm pretty sure you were implying that it was shown them by the hands of man. So I ask; who did your beliefs come from? What was the actual initial source that was readily and obviously responsible for your specific beliefs? It's rhetorical really as I'm quite sure your beliefs stemmed from your upbringing. I won't be delving into that direction any further as to not offend you, bit would as that you consider your blanket statements and words and judgements; and if you don't understand those things to be weighed against you, then perhaps you should consider it.
    Well, you're wrong. I was "implying" no such thing. There was NOTHING in my post that had a single thing to do with being "spoonfed" by the "hands of men". I was referring to the knowledge that GOD, Himself, had created IN US. Perhaps if you wasted less time imagining what I must be saying, and just consider what I have said, you'd be able to carry on a legitimate conversation instead of continuing to go off track.

    The rest of your post is just a bunch of jibberish. You've missed the point and imagined all sorts of nonsense. You need to get to the point...try using the quote feature, for one thing. It's nearly impossible to wade through what you have written.

  7. #14481
    Over 4000 post club
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    4,047
    Thanks
    1,774
    Thanked 1,015 Times in 836 Posts

    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    106541
    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post




    I meant what I said, and it's what Paul says in Romans 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

    As people grow up and older, they get too big for their britches. They start professing themselves to be wise, and put off the knowledge God created them with...."being clearly seen" and "understood" by the created.

    Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,



    Well, you're wrong. I was "implying" no such thing. There was NOTHING in my post that had a single thing to do with being "spoonfed" by the "hands of men". I was referring to the knowledge that GOD, Himself, had created IN US. Perhaps if you wasted less time imagining what I must be saying, and just consider what I have said, you'd be able to carry on a legitimate conversation instead of continuing to go off track.

    The rest of your post is just a bunch of jibberish. You've missed the point and imagined all sorts of nonsense. You need to get to the point...try using the quote feature, for one thing. It's nearly impossible to wade through what you have written.
    So the vain imaginings aren't because of the hands of man...


    Whatever you say.

    I'm sorry you can't wade through your own words.

    I put quotations around them.

  8. #14482
    Over 6000 post club keypurr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    6,937
    Thanks
    43
    Thanked 478 Times in 395 Posts

    Blog Entries
    1
    Mentioned
    24 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    146417
    Glorydaz, did you really read this?

    Is the God of all creation a "MAN"?

    Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
    Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
    Rom 1:23 [U]And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man,[/U] and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

    God is not and never was a MAN. His Spirit Son took the form of a man, as told to do by his God.

    Here are some notes from a dear friend of mine who no longer comes to TOL. You would be wise to read them.

    This paper is not going to deal with the fact that Jesus (who Trinitarians claim is God at all times) has a God himself ( Two Gods). It is not going to deal with the fact that Jesus died and the Bible says that God is immortal ( Did Jesus Really Die?). It is not going to deal with the fact that Jesus was tempted and the Bible says that God cannot be tempted ( The Temptation of Jesus). It is not going to deal with the fact that Jesus is not omniscient, yet the Bible says that God is all knowing ( Jesus Is Omniscient?). It is not a going to deal with the history of the Trinity and its development ( A Patristic Study of the Kingdom of God and the Development of the Trinity). And it is also not going to deal with explanations to all the verses that supposedly support the Trinity ( Understanding the Father Son and Holy Spirit). That is the job of the papers mentioned above.
    This is not a scholarly work, it is for anyone with an I.Q. above 70. It is enough information to make you kick-start your curiosity about this Doctrine. Let us begin.
    First I have to make something crystal clear. I am going to list some verses, some very easy verses. None of these verses are disputed verses in which different people have different interpretations for them. I am just going to write them out for you and let you think about them, with a comment or two from me of course. Please just read them like you would read the morning paper. JUST READ. Do not try to guess a hidden meaning in them, just read what they say. For a few of these verses we do need to understand a couple of meanings. Don’t worry, they’re easy.
    YHWH – In the Old Testament this is the name of God. It has no vowels, thus it is unpronounceable. People later added vowels to come up with Yahweh so that they could pronounce it. Some English Bibles translated YHWH as Jehovah, but most English Bibles instead of writing YHWH, just put "the LORD." Notice that "LORD" is in capital letters when it refers to YHWH. This only applies to the Old Testament.
    Christ – This is not Jesus’ last name. It is his title. Christ is English for Messiah. Messiah means anointed. Jesus Christ means Jesus the anointed. Anointed by what you may ask? Anointed by the Spirit of God.
    Lord (kyrios) – Most people when they hear this title think immediately of God Almighty. As we covered earlier, God’s name is YHWH. This should not be confused with the title kyrios (Lord), which was used for Jesus throughout his whole ministry. Trinitarians will argue that this title of Jesus’ confirms his divinity, but even before his resurrection people addressed him as Lord. Why? For the same reason that many other people in the Bible and in his day were addressed as Lord. It was a title of authority and respect. Moses is referred to as lord in Numbers 32:27:
    "The Gadites and Reubenites answered Moses, Your servants will do as you command, my lord."
    1 Samuel 1:26 – "Hannah, his mother, approached Eli and said: Pardon, my lord! As you live, my lord, I am the woman who stood near you here."
    1 Samuel 24:9 –"David stepped out of the cave, calling to Saul, My lord and my king."
    As Scripture proves, Moses, Eli, and Saul are referred to as lord, but this does not mean that they are God. It is a title of authority and respect. There are many more verses like these. The Zondervan Pictorial Encyclopedia of the Bible volume 3 pg. 960 states:
    Lord - its meaning signified nothing more than "sir," a title of respect, or to "master,"
    There is an excellent example in John 4:11: Here the Samaritan woman has just met Jesus, he has not yet told her that he is the Messiah. They have just met, yet she addresses him as kyrios, which in the New American Bible is translated as "sir."
    "The woman said to him, Sir (kyrios), you do not have a bucket and the cistern is deep."
    The word in this passage is kyrios. It is applied to Jesus, and it is used as a term of respect, as "sir."
    The Apostles used this title as a means of respect and also as "master." This is why Jesus is called Lord in the New Testament. He is our King, our master, our Lord. Like the Lord of a castle. He is the Lord of the kingdom of God.
    Trinitarian definition of God – When Trinitarians say "God," they mean the combination of all three persons, Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit. If they want to refer to one specific member of the Trinity they will use the corresponding name such as "the Son" etc.
    That’s it for the definitions, whew! I hope that wasn’t too deep. Okay, one set up verse. Trinitarians will agree that there is only one God who is called Yahweh. The problem is that they include Jesus as a member of Yahweh. But for now, we both agree that the only God is Yahweh.
    Isaiah 45:5 – "I am the LORD (YHWH) and there is no other, there is no God besides me."
    This is pretty simple. YHWH is the ONLY God. So far, so good.
    Exodus 3:15 – "Thus shall you say to the Israelites: The LORD (YHWH), the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob, has sent me to you."
    Okay, the God of your fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is the LORD (YHWH).
    The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob = YHWH.
    "Yet for us there is one God, the Father" (Corinthians 8:6).
    "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ" (Ephesians 1:3).Does this verse imply that Jesus is the God of Abraham etc.? Of course not! Just read it. The God of Abraham glorified who? Himself? No! He glorified his servant Jesus. This is not difficult. Jesus is obviously not the God of Abraham etc. He is the God of Abraham’s SERVANT. Who is the God of Abraham? YHWH. And YHWH is who? The ONLY God. So Jesus is not God? Of course not. He is God’s anointed.
    Acts 10:38 – "How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power. He went about doing good and healing all oppressed by the devil, for God was with him."
    Who anointed Jesus? It doesn’t say the Father anointed Jesus, it says GOD. You can obviously see that Jesus is not the God that anointed him. If I said, "The king anointed Bob," would you think that it meant that Bob is the king? Of course not. Jesus is the servant whom God anointed to do his will. That is the whole purpose of anointing someone, to give them the wisdom and power that they will need in order to serve God. Does it make sense to you that God would anoint God with God? Let’s look at a Messianic prophecy in the Old Testament.
    Isaiah 61:1 – "The spirit of the Lord God is upon me, because the LORD (YHWH) has anointed me."
    By reading this verse it is plainly clear that the person who is being anointed is not YHWH. YHWH is anointing this individual. Now watch how Jesus uses this verse to refer to himself. Jesus uses this verse to say that he is the one that the Scripture spoke about. That he is the one whom YHWH has anointed. Who is YHWH by the way? That’s right, the ONLY God.
    Luke 4:18-21 – "He (Jesus) unrolled the scroll and found the passage where it was written: ‘The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me,’…He (Jesus) said to them, ‘Today this Scripture passage is fulfilled in your hearing."
    Okay now, don’t panic, this is simple. Look at Isaiah 61:1, YHWH anoints someone other than YHWH. Jesus in Luke claims that he is that person whom YHWH has anointed. Next!
    1 Cor. 8:6 – "Yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom all things are and for whom we exist, and one Lord (This Lord is not a translation of YHWH, it is kyrios i.e. master, king etc.) Jesus Christ."
    It doesn’t get any easier than this. Who is the one God? The FATHER! That’s it, period! The Father is the only one who is considered God. Jesus is our Lord (master, king). You will always see that the only one who is referred to as God is the Father. From the passage above, do you honestly read that and come away with the fact that Jesus is the one God? It is obvious that the one Lord is not the one God. Only the Father is God. It never says, "Peace from God the Father and God the Son." Why not? Didn’t the Apostles know that the Son is God? Not even close! Now get comfortable, and look at the following:
    1 Cor. 1:3 – "Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ."
    2 Cor. 1:2 – "Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ."
    Philippians 1:2 – "Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ."
    1 Thessalonians 1:1 – "To the church of the Thessalonians in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ."
    1 Thessalonians 3:13 – "To be blameless in holiness before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus."
    2 Thessalonians 1:2 – "Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ."
    2 Thessalonians 2:16 – "May our Lord Jesus Christ himself and God our Father, who has loved us."
    Philippians 4:20 – To our God and Father, glory for ever and ever. Amen."
    Collosians 1:2 – "Peace from God our Father."
    Ephesians 4:6 – "One God and Father of all."
    James1:1 – "James, a slave of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ."
    1 Timothy 1:2 – "Peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord."
    2 Timothy 1:2 – "Peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord."
    Titus 1:4 – "Peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our savior."
    Philemon vv. 3 – "Peace from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ."
    Galatians 1:3 "Peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ."
    Psalm 1[/COLOR] and Job 28:28

    Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

    Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.

    I love the God of my Lord Jesus Christ

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to keypurr For Your Post:

    popsthebuilder (August 12th, 2017)

  10. #14483
    TOL Subscriber glorydaz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    16,653
    Thanks
    6,759
    Thanked 23,496 Times in 11,875 Posts

    Blog Entries
    1
    Mentioned
    55 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)


    Rep Power
    2147720
    Quote Originally Posted by popsthebuilder View Post
    So the vain imaginings aren't because of the hands of man...


    Whatever you say.


    No, it's what Paul says, "Became vain in their imaginations".

    Just as Keypurr has done, and just as you are in the process of doing. Before long, you'll be as bad as Keypurr claiming Jesus and Christ are not the same person, and you'll start making up the meaning of the word "image" as Keypurr and Rosey have done.

    Each of you does this because of your own spiritual pride. That is how one becomes vain in his imaginations. That is why the knowledge of God that we were created with is turned on it's head into an "image" of God that is unrecognizable to the true believers.

    I'm sorry you can't wade through your own words.

    I put quotations around them.
    We have the quote function for a reason. It keeps all the words from being jumbled together. It isn't my words I have to wade through, it's yours that can't be separated from mine as easily as it could be if you had any consideration for the reader.

    Use the quote function or don't quote me at all.

  11. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to glorydaz For Your Post:

    JudgeRightly (August 13th, 2017),lifeisgood (August 13th, 2017)

  12. #14484
    Over 3000 post club Rosenritter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    3,125
    Thanks
    584
    Thanked 1,049 Times in 823 Posts

    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    176161
    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    Such a wild imagination you people have. YOU UNDERSTAND NOTHING.

    All people have been created to know God, but it takes years for the proud among us to put off that which has been shown them. The little children know what you don't.

    We see this when you folks do not glorify our Saviour as God, when you do not glorify the Holy Spirit as God....vain in your IMAGINATIONS, and your foolish heart is darkened.
    Romans 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
    Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

    Look at you people...refusing to recognize the Godhead, refusing to admit that Jesus is God, making all these statements showing you do not understand how God is triune. You dispute the very verses that believers recognize as Father, Son, and Spirit being the ONE GOD, with one name.

    Oh, you PEOPLE say...."three people" "how can three people fit into one man". If that isn't making God into an image of man, I don't know what is.
    Romans 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man,
    Actually, you proved that I understood you very well. You were reading that passage to mean that you clearly see the nature of God, whereas other people do not.

    That's not the meaning of the passage. Paul speaks of a world that has received Christ, God manifest in the flesh, clearly witnessed by them with miracles and even his own resurrection, which still prefers a lie of worship of creature worship and idolatry.

    There's nothing about "God is three persons" in Romans 1. This has nothing to do about pride, it's about honesty. The word "godhead" does not mean "Trinity." If there is an issue of pride, I think it would also apply to those who Crusade in the name of a Trinity.

    Jesus never told us about a Trinity, the apostles never told us about a Trinity, so how come you've decided that they were mistaken and that this is now a vital interpretation and/or doctrine? Stick with what it does tell us and let the pieces fall into place on their own.

    For example, Was Jesus our LORD? That is provable, and it also affects how we relate to God and Christ. But don't get dogmatic or confused into thinking that your man-made model is equivalent to the gospel. Jesus preached the gospel. Jesus did not preach a Trinity doctrine. Someone made that up, much much later. Being outside scripture, it's not guaranteed to be a perfect explanation.
    Last edited by Rosenritter; August 12th, 2017 at 11:33 PM.

  13. #14485
    Over 3000 post club Rosenritter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    3,125
    Thanks
    584
    Thanked 1,049 Times in 823 Posts

    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    176161
    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    No, it's what Paul says, "Became vain in their imaginations".

    Just as Keypurr has done, and just as you are in the process of doing. Before long, you'll be as bad as Keypurr claiming Jesus and Christ are not the same person, and you'll start making up the meaning of the word "image" as Keypurr and Rosey have done.

    Each of you does this because of your own spiritual pride. That is how one becomes vain in his imaginations. That is why the knowledge of God that we were created with is turned on it's head into an "image" of God that is unrecognizable to the true believers.



    We have the quote function for a reason. It keeps all the words from being jumbled together. It isn't my words I have to wade through, it's yours that can't be separated from mine as easily as it could be if you had any consideration for the reader.

    Use the quote function or don't quote me at all.
    1. No one had to "make up" the meaning of the word image. It is one of the invisible things clearly seen from the creation of the world. LifeisGood was able to agree on the meaning as well, so if you're going to be criticizing people, make sure you blame him as well.

    2. Glory, sympathies on the quote tags.

    Pops, if I may make a related request, if you need to post a lengthy chain of scripture to make a point, a little formatting (occasional white space or boldfaced phrases) or at least a one line comment explaining why you posted it would help to keep it from being a "faceless wall of text." I've had that thought before and didn't say anything, but left not knowing what you meant to convey by the post.

  14. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Rosenritter For Your Post:

    JudgeRightly (August 13th, 2017),popsthebuilder (August 13th, 2017)

  15. #14486
    Over 3000 post club Rosenritter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    3,125
    Thanks
    584
    Thanked 1,049 Times in 823 Posts

    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    176161
    Quote Originally Posted by keypurr View Post
    This paper is not going to deal with the fact that Jesus (who Trinitarians claim is God at all times) has a God himself ( Two Gods). It is not going to deal with the fact that Jesus died and the Bible says that God is immortal ( Did Jesus Really Die?). It is not going to deal with the fact that Jesus was tempted and the Bible says that God cannot be tempted ( The Temptation of Jesus).
    Keypurr, this forum isn't well suited for posting papers (in length or style). There needs to be opportunity to answer and exchange, which something of that length or style doesn't allow. You seemed to get started off on the wrong foot above (which is why I only quoted the first couple sentences.)

    This paper is not going to deal with the fact that Jesus (who Trinitarians claim is God at all times) has a God himself ( Two Gods).
    If Jesus is God, then he is also his own God, and while standing as a man on earth speaking to others who think within that framework, it is not incorrect for him to refer to God as his God. He is not saying that he is anything less than God, but he is clarifying to whom he ascends. Let's not forget the fact that this gospel defines Jesus as God in its very first chapter.

    It is not going to deal with the fact that Jesus died and the Bible says that God is immortal ( Did Jesus Really Die?).
    Being immortal doesn't mean that you can't die if you want to. In fact it means you can die as many times as you like and it can't keep a hold on you. Jesus said that he had life in himself just as the Father had life in himself, and Acts 2:24 even says that it was not possible that Jesus could be held by death. Yet another familiar passage tells us that Christ only hath immortality (1 Timothy 6:16).

    It is not going to deal with the fact that Jesus was tempted and the Bible says that God cannot be tempted ( The Temptation of Jesus).
    I'm sure we've discussed this word game before with others. The Bible itself says that God was tempted (as ye tempted him in Massah) and if your belief is based on word tricks then it only goes as far as that. When items like that are given as your foundation I stop reading.

    That's why posting a paper of yours isn't good for discussion. You're not posting to persuade yourself, you need to be able to answer questions as people put them to you.

  16. The Following User Says Thank You to Rosenritter For Your Post:

    JudgeRightly (August 13th, 2017)

  17. #14487
    Over 4000 post club Nihilo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    The North & the West
    Posts
    4,386
    Thanks
    666
    Thanked 984 Times in 817 Posts

    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    222240
    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    This hypothetical me may believe that He is risen, and has participated in all the outward sacraments of the Roman Church. This hypothetical me, however, remains hardened in heart towards my neighbor, and in his heart will not forgive offenses, whether real or imagined, although he does claim that his sins are forgiven through Christ's blood and obedience.

    Matthew 6:12-14 KJV
    (12) And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
    (13) And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
    (14) For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

    Matthew 18:32-35 KJV
    (32) Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:
    (33) Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?
    (34) And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
    (35) So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

    1 John 4:20-21 KJV
    (20) If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
    (21) And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

    Please fill in the gaps as you understand them. I understand scripture differently at this point in our discussion, and the scripture that comes to mind tells me that forgiveness of sins is only applicable to those that are also willing to forgive others, and that even divine forgiveness, once granted, has the potential to be revoked.
    What you're doing is objectively immoral. And, you know that it's objectively immoral. And yet, you do it, continually. Willfully.

    Right? Willfully, you do immoral things? Or do you just know that you do things that are objectively immoral? People who continually do the same sort of things that are immoral, obviously do not know what they're doing, so they don't, in fact, know what they're doing, or know that what they're doing is immoral, because they continue to do the immoral things. That's an objective fact. Immoral things are bad for us, so we sow seeds of death whenever we do immoral things, and we do immoral things, because we are all sinners, sinners means, those who do immoral things, I'm one of them, and the Apostle said that he was the chief of us sinners.

    We will reap death unless we are spared from harvesting what our seeds might yield, when we sin. "And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us." Part of the reason my neighbor deserves punishment for what they've done to me, is because I haven't forgiven those who trespass against me. So the prayer reminds me how this works.
    THE LORD JESUS CHRIST IS RISEN. Matthew 28:6 (KJV) Mark 16:6 (KJV) Luke 24:6 (KJV)

    Romans 10:9 (KJV) 1st Corinthians 15:14 (KJV)

    "I think that's pretty good, considering, Julian."
    "No, it's not good."
    "I'm trying my best here!"
    "Well fine. But it's not really that good."

  18. #14488
    Over 4000 post club Nihilo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    The North & the West
    Posts
    4,386
    Thanks
    666
    Thanked 984 Times in 817 Posts

    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    222240
    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    OK... let's say I am a rich and powerful person that doesn't care what others think. Like a medieval king, a drug lord, or Justin Beiber. If I am in a position that I cannot be harmed by the consequences of my actions, and I am already granted forgiveness for all things by God in heaven, is there any incentive for me to forgive others their trespasses against me? Why should I grant indulgences to anyone in such a case?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_...rich_young_man

    Jesus said the thing about a camel and an eye of a needle, about Justin Beiber or Donald Trump. But he gave them their marching orders, to sell everything, and give the money to the needy.

    That's a business. Sell everything, give the money to your employees, who otherwise maybe wouldn't have a job, and so would be needy. But because your business is successful, the people aren't needy at the moment.

    Provide reliable employment, is what the Lord told the richman. It turns out, that's great advice for a robust global economy too.
    THE LORD JESUS CHRIST IS RISEN. Matthew 28:6 (KJV) Mark 16:6 (KJV) Luke 24:6 (KJV)

    Romans 10:9 (KJV) 1st Corinthians 15:14 (KJV)

    "I think that's pretty good, considering, Julian."
    "No, it's not good."
    "I'm trying my best here!"
    "Well fine. But it's not really that good."

  19. #14489
    LIFETIME MEMBER MichaelCadry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    5,521
    Thanks
    1,457
    Thanked 499 Times in 372 Posts

    Blog Entries
    23
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    380077
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You have proven to be a false prophet so that means you are not 'thee' prophet.

    Just accept it and grow in the Lord.

    Dear GT,

    Ha! I've said all that I am going to say. I am done.

    Michael
    Last edited by MichaelCadry; August 13th, 2017 at 04:04 AM.
    www.jesusreturningverysoon.com

  20. #14490
    LIFETIME MEMBER MichaelCadry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    5,521
    Thanks
    1,457
    Thanked 499 Times in 372 Posts

    Blog Entries
    23
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    380077
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    I am talking about when you prophesied about doom in August that would affect everyone.

    I then asked you if you ever gave a prediction from God before and it not happen. You said you did. You then went on a slanderous rant about me.

    A prophet of God does not make mistakes about prophecies. That is what the Bible says.

    Not saying I don't think you are saved, just that I wouldn't keep making prophecies that are not in the Bible.

    Dear GT,

    I'm outta here.

    Yours Truly,

    Michael
    Last edited by MichaelCadry; August 13th, 2017 at 04:03 AM.
    www.jesusreturningverysoon.com

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 6 users browsing this thread. (2 members and 4 guests)

  1. glorydaz,
  2. Lon

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
About us
Since 1997 TheologyOnline (TOL) has been one of the most popular theology forums on the internet. On TOL we encourage spirited conversation about religion, politics, and just about everything else.

follow us