Discussion: Jerry Shugart vs Door

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tetelestai

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LIFETIME MEMBER
John is saying that if they SAY they are in fellowship, and they are walking in darkness, then they are lying. It is evidence that they would not be believers.

Wycliffe New Testament:
6 If we say, that we have fellowship with him, and we wander in darknesses, we lie, and do not truth.

This is the New Living Translation:
So we are lying if we say we have fellowship with God but go on living in spiritual darkness; we are not practicing the truth
(What is spiritual darkness?)

Young's Literal Translation:
6if we may say -- `we have fellowship with Him,' and in the darkness may walk -- we lie, and do not the truth;

Still no THEY anywhere
 

dreadknought

New member
Are we living in Twilight Zone Babel? We are all speaking and writing in the same English language but can't make sense out what we read in English. :doh:
 

Door

New member
What? :doh:
Yes, you are stupid. We get it.

If you say to me "we are going to the market" and I want to tell someone else about where you are going, I will say "they went to the market", I will not say "we".

If you cannot comprehend the difference, then there is no hope for you.
 

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Impossible.

Christians might spiritually stumble and sin, but they do not function in spiritual darkness, for the light of God has been instilled into their souls through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit of Christ.

"For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are you light in the Lord: walk as
children of light." Ephesians 5:8



Nang

Wherefore he saith. Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light (Eph. 5:14)

“Sleeping” is a picture of the believer out of fellowship, in darkness.

“Arise from the dead” means what? Since no believer can literally bring himself up from the dead, what does this really mean?

The Bible teaches different types of death. In Ephesians 5:14 we have temporal death, the believer out of fellowship with God through carnality. Our command once again is: Get back into fellowship! If we do, what happens? “Christ shall give thee light”.
 

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Yes, you are stupid. We get it.

If you say to me "we are going to the market" and I want to tell someone else about where you are going, I will say "they went to the market", I will not say "we".

If you cannot comprehend the difference, then there is no hope for you.

I'm not the one flip flopping, and confusing "we" and "they".
 

godrulz

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
Are we living in Twilight Zone Babel? We are all speaking and writing in the same English language but can't make sense out what we read in English. :doh:

Since I am on ignore, I can call you fat and ugly and you will be unable to defend your fine physique.:idea:
 

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
If you say to me "we are going to the market" and I want to tell someone else about where you are going, I will say "they went to the market", I will not say "we".

That's the point. John says "WE" he does not say "THEY"

WE = believers

THEY=unbelievers

Does that help?
 

Door

New member
Are we living in Twilight Zone Babel? We are all speaking and writing in the same English language but can't make sense out what we read in English. :doh:
tetelestai is an imbecile, but since I am actually wasting my time trying to reason with him, that makes me an even bigger one.
 

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
See then that ye walk circumspectly. not as fools, but as wise (Eph. 5:15)

I am going to bed. This is my last post for today. So I ask, how does one walk circumspectly?
 

Door

New member
That's the point. John says "WE" he does not say "THEY"

WE = believers

THEY=unbelievers

Does that help?

I know he says WE you butt-faced moron.

You don't say we when you are referring to someone else.

Go straight to hell you worthless pile of cr@p!
 

godrulz

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
See then that ye walk circumspectly. not as fools, but as wise (Eph. 5:15)

I am going to bed. This is my last post for today. So I ask, how does one walk circumspectly?

Retard, moron, idiot, imbecile...you...you....just...go to bed! Your relatives wear army boots:dunce:
 

voltaire

BANNED
Banned
the scripture does not warrant the use of WE as exclusively talking about christians. chapter 2 verse 26 shows that what was written in chapter 1 was written concerning THOSE WHO TRY TO DECEIVE YOU. why should the we in verse 6 be different than the we in verse 5? this is the message WE have heard from him and declare to YOU.
If WE (john and his disciples) say that WE (john and his disciples) have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, WE (john and his disciples) lie and do not practice the truth.
john is telling his readers a way to find out if john is in fellowship with God. They have been deceived by the gnostics and now have doubts as to whether john is telling the truth. he is giving his readers a method to test both the false teachers and john to find out who has the truth in them.
but nowhere in chapter 1 do i find any statement that says that believers can be in darkness. in verse 6, john says IF we walk in darkness. he is only making a hypothetical statement.
 

Door

New member
John is saying that if they (John and those who are with John) SAY they (John and those who are with John) are in fellowship, and they (John and those who are with John) are walking in darkness, then they (John and those who are with John) are lying. It is evidence that they (John and those who are with John) would not be believers.
Make sense now you retards?

Probably not, knowing the sub human level of the morons on this site.
 

JCWR

New member
In the one on one, Jerry Shugart writes:
Jerry Shugart said:
Let us look at John's words again:

If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth" (1 Jn.1:4-7).

Certainly John is raising the possibility that a Christian can walk in darkness.
This is not the proper interpretation!

Beginning with verse 6, three antithetic tests (antithetic: being in direct and unequivocal opposition) for true Christian faith are described, and all begin with If we say. John is using this method to refer to 'boasts' made by the false teachers.

The first false claim--to have fellowship with God and yet to walk in darkness--probably belongs, to Gnostics. John describes them, as having no love for one another (v. 7), hating their brothers (2:9, 11), claiming sinlessness (v. 8), and denying that Jesus came in the flesh (2:22). To walk in the darkness is the same as 'abiding' in darkness or 'living in darkness'. In each case the meaning is that of allowing darkness to define one's life.

It is not to be assumed that the opponents (the Gnostics) agreed with John that they did indeed walk in darkness. Far from it! The Gnostics claimed to walk in the light while they practiced the deeds of darkness. This is what made their actions so pernicious. Inevitably the Gnostics, like all persons in similar situations, began to call their 'darkness' light and to claim righteousness without becoming righteous or doing righteousness. In such situations, John says, we lie and do not live by the truth.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Beginning with verse 6, three antithetic tests (antithetic: being in direct and unequivocal opposition) for true Christian faith are described, and all begin with If we say. John is using this method to refer to 'boasts' made by the false teachers.
All we have from you is an assertion and nothing more. When we look at John's words later in the same epistle we can see him making the same type of argument which he made at verse 6, and it is evident his method is not one of "boasts made by false teachers."

At verse 6 John is saying that if one has true fellowship with the Lord then while in that fellowship one does not and cannot sin. When the Christian is walking according to the Spirit then at that time he is free from the law of sin (Ro.8:1-2) and he will not sin.

John says the same thing when he speaks of the Christian "abiding" in Christ Jesus:

"Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him" (1 Jn.3:6).​

Anyone with the slightest amount of spiritual discernment should be able to see that John is applying the same principle at 1 John 3:6 that he did at 1 John 1:6.

It is ridiculous to think as you do, that John would use an argument which you call a "boast of false teachers" and at the same time insert himself into the argument as being himself a false teacher. This is the way that we must understand the verse according to your ideas:

If we (John and other false teachers) say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth" (1 Jn.1:6).​

According to reality and according to the "context" the word "we" can refer to Christians and no one else. But since the reality does not fit your views we are supposed to turn reason on its head and believe your idea that when John used the word "we" he was referring to himself and other false teachers.

You have quite an imagination but your ideas are not grounded in reality.

In His grace,
Jerry
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Make sense now you retards?

Probably not, knowing the sub human level of the morons on this site.
I question on what level you operate since you think that the following verses do not apply to you:

"Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine" (2 Pet.4:2).​

Some people think that they are above the law just as you think that you are above the standards which other Christians attempt to uphold. You defile this forum with your foul language and false accusations against other Christians. You claim to be an expert on every phase of the Scriptures but when it comes to actually following what the same Scriptures say you are above taking that advice.

"I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace" (Eph.4:1-3).​

You can probably give an educated exegesis of those verses but for some reason you think that you are above applying those words to yourself and your behavior.

As Christians we will all stand before the Bema seat of the Lord, and I would not want to be in your shoes on that day.

In His grace,
Jerry
 
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