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Thread: How is Paul's message different?

  1. #2626
    TOL Legend musterion's Avatar
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    I don't respond to links. If you can't bullet point your responses the way I did my questions, it's not my problem but you don't get the crow victory when people don't oblige your laziness. Besides, you said that whatever I say can be dismissed so I assume it isn't even a serious response anyway.
    "There is one thing worse than going to Hell. That would be going to Hell and having it be a surprise."
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    Everyone who has not believed the Gospel of grace is not saved, no matter what else they believe or do.
    By that measure, how many professing Christians are on their way to the Lake of Fire?

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  3. #2627
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    Quote Originally Posted by musterion View Post
    I don't respond to links. If you can't bullet point your responses the way I did my questions, it's not my problem but you don't get the crow victory when people don't oblige your laziness. Besides, you said that whatever I say can be dismissed so I assume it isn't even a serious response anyway.
    That's just you deflecting AGAIN.



    1 - I was not declaring any sort of victory, as I don't believe this is about winners and losers - that has no place on a Christian Forum. As usual, you project your own, ever obvious win-lose values into another's intent.

    2 - You're the one being lazy. Had you read through that thread, you'd have seen I posted my view at length on there - not just those links.

    3 - You're full of it - not only do you post links all the time; but you just as often reference info you read on links (including the very basis of your varying signatures).

    Then again, how often do you lay out a passage by passage study on here?

    VERY seldom.

    You mostly parrot something you read by someone else.

    You remain blind to your every double-standard.

    You don't have to be that way. But you insist on being just that way.

    Where is the victory of the Cross in that?

    Its not. Other than in your own, ever obvious self-delusion.

    Rom. 5:6-8.

  4. #2628
    Silver Member Clete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    The following about you is tongue in cheek.

    1- 1 take it then that as with the Acts 9 /Acts 28 Hybrid, you also do NOT believe that various parts of Romans, like, say, any part of Romans 9-11, are to and about the Body of Christ?

    Actual Acts 9 MAD holds that throughout Romans Paul is at times describing the Believing Remnant of Israel; at other times, Unbelieving Israel; and at other times; formerly lost Jews and Gentiles now in the Body; and lost Gentiles, including on Romans 9-11.

    Not to the Hybrids, he is not.

    See there own words here:

    http://theologyonline.com/showthread...-to-the-Romans

    Likewise with other parts of Paul's Acts Epistles - "not to us, nor about us!" assert the Hybrids.

    2 - I take it you also do NOT hold that Galatians 3 and 4 are describing Body Truth about us, and to us?

    So assert the Hybrids.

    Actual Acts 9 MAD asserts that Galatians 3 and 4 are to us and about us and that chapter 4 is Paul's application of allegory to the Body of Christ.

    3- I take it you assert this passage applies to ANY MAD who does NOT hold to the Hybrid's errors?

    Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

    So assert the Hybrids.

    Take a look at some of their other assertions, and my dealings with them on them, once more - contrary to their false assertion that I never have.

    Heir on Paul's supposed 2nd sending.

    While you are at it, note their same pattern as that of the likes of STP over on the FE threads - the false charge that anyone who disagrees with them is just being proud and arrogant.

    http://theologyonline.com/showthread...ending-of-Paul

    Again, I don't think they are up to no good in that; they're just VERY poor at properly discerning one writer or another's actual intent; including that of anyone who disagrees with them.

    Where I do find them knowingly up to no good is in their misrepresenation of another's words to them, no matter how often one points out to them that their accusation is not where one was coming from.

    All of which I find...amusing.

    Which, of course, ticks them off.



    Nevertheless, Rom. 14: 5 - in memory of Rom. 5: 6-8 - in each our stead.
    I have never once come across any dispensationalist who asserts that Romans is anything other than Paul doctrinal magnum opus nor any post Acts 2 Dispensationalist that didn't acknowledge Paul's unique ministry and Apostleship to and for the Body of Christ and that the only sense in which Paul's epistles apply to the Jews is in the fact that his gospel is now THE gospel and that there isn't a distinction between Jew and Gentile any longer.

    In fact, I've never come across anyone, of any doctrinal stripe, dispensational or otherwise, that carves up Romans the way you're suggesting and as I've already indicated, you're the first person I've ever heard use the phrase "Acts 9/28 hybrid". The point being that there are so few people who hold to such things that it's hardly worth bringing up at all, nevermind spending the sort of emotional energy you've clearly spent on it, not to mention causing the amount of offense that's been caused.

    You'd be wise to drop it and focus on debating people on issues that they actually believe. Or at the very least, stop making vague accusations of some sort of association with this hybrid thing. If someone makes an assertion you feel is in error, committing a guilt by association fallacy doesn't do anything to refute the supposed error. Make the argument! They aren't wrong because there's some tenuous connection between what they've said and some weird sect of dispensationalism that no one has ever heard of before that teaches something similar.

    In short, you are the only one around here that cares about "Acts 9/28 hybrids". No one here, including you it seems, is even capable of giving a definitive description of what one is.

    Clete

    "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

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  6. #2629
    Silver Member Clete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by musterion View Post
    I don't respond to links. If you can't bullet point your responses the way I did my questions, it's not my problem but you don't get the crow victory when people don't oblige your laziness. Besides, you said that whatever I say can be dismissed so I assume it isn't even a serious response anyway.
    Thank you!

    People around TOL do that sort of thing all over the place. It drives me nuts!

    Linking to a more through treatment of an issue is one thing but people ought to make some sort of effort to make the argument themselves or at the very least post something that gives a nutshell version of the argument. The "argument by Google and YouTube video" debate technique is just annoying.

    Clete

    "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

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  8. #2630
    TOL Legend musterion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clete View Post
    Linking to a more through treatment of an issue is one thing but people ought to make some sort of effort to make the argument themselves or at the very least post something that gives a nutshell version of the argument.
    Absolutely.
    "There is one thing worse than going to Hell. That would be going to Hell and having it be a surprise."
    Terence Mc Lean

    [most will be very surprised]


    Everyone who has not believed the Gospel of grace is not saved, no matter what else they believe or do.
    By that measure, how many professing Christians are on their way to the Lake of Fire?

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  10. #2631
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clete View Post
    Thank you!

    People around TOL do that sort of thing all over the place. It drives me nuts!

    Linking to a more through treatment of an issue is one thing but people ought to make some sort of effort to make the argument themselves or at the very least post something that gives a nutshell version of the argument. The "argument by Google and YouTube video" debate technique is just annoying.

    Clete
    Nope.

    Musti points people to nothing but a link all the time. He and his pals all do. All the time.

    I often lay a thing out. Often.

    That thread I referenced in response to his post to me about his erroneous Romans 11 view has plenty on it in own words and Scripture.

    And why re-write what I find I agree with that someone else has already laid out - just like how you point people to Enyart's "The Plot."

    Speaking of which look at how The Plot is spoken against over in the thread by that name on the MAD forum on here.

    Fact is, the Hybrid view has been growing (ignorance tends to do that) and has been the source of much divisiveness through out various Mi-Acts assemblies.

    Because they go around trashing actual Acts 9 Mid-Acts distinctions.

    Ask a few Pastors within any camp within the Grace movement if they've not had to deal with the conflicts the Hybrids have been setting off in their assemblies.

    Rom. 5:6-8.

  11. #2632
    TOL Legend musterion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    Musti points people to nothing but a link all the time.
    As a conversation starter in new or existing threads, yes I do, but not as replies to direct, serious questions others want me to answer. That's YOUR scam.
    "There is one thing worse than going to Hell. That would be going to Hell and having it be a surprise."
    Terence Mc Lean

    [most will be very surprised]


    Everyone who has not believed the Gospel of grace is not saved, no matter what else they believe or do.
    By that measure, how many professing Christians are on their way to the Lake of Fire?

  12. #2633
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    Quote Originally Posted by musterion View Post
    As a conversation starter in new or existing threads, yes I do, but not as replies to direct, serious questions others want me to answer. That's YOUR scam.
    Rubbish. For my posts on that thread to questions similar to yours by Tam were just that - my posts, not links.

    I only began that thread with some links.

    In fact, one of those links being to doctrine.org - the very site Clete himself recently posted a link to (despite his above comments about hating when people do that).

    You guys are something else.



    Rom. 5:6-8.

  13. #2634
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    Since you despise every MAD here and since no non-MAD seems to think you represent MAD...perhaps you should just leave.

    At least confine your efforts to defending your leftist fellow travelers on politics. You just waste your time on Bible topics, as even you have recently indicated.

    You find us wearisome and I'm pretty sure we all think the same of you. You have even been invited to provide bullet point objections to anything we have posted, in your own dedicated, protected thread. You refused. What more need be said?

    So...go.
    "There is one thing worse than going to Hell. That would be going to Hell and having it be a surprise."
    Terence Mc Lean

    [most will be very surprised]


    Everyone who has not believed the Gospel of grace is not saved, no matter what else they believe or do.
    By that measure, how many professing Christians are on their way to the Lake of Fire?

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  15. #2635
    Silver Member Clete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    Nope.

    Musti points people to nothing but a link all the time. He and his pals all do. All the time.

    I often lay a thing out. Often.

    That thread I referenced in response to his post to me about his erroneous Romans 11 view has plenty on it in own words and Scripture.



    And why re-write what I find I agree with that someone else has already laid out
    Because it's lazy and boring.

    - just like how you point people to Enyart's "The Plot."
    I never do that unless I have made the argument myself or have at least laid out the major points. I refer people to things that augment MY arguments, I do not rely on others to make my arguments for me.

    Fact is, the Hybrid view has been growing (ignorance tends to do that) and has been the source of much divisiveness through out various Mi-Acts assemblies.

    Because they go around trashing actual Acts 9 Mid-Acts distinctions.

    Ask a few Pastors within any camp within the Grace movement if they've not had to deal with the conflicts the Hybrids have been setting off in their assemblies.

    Rom. 5:6-8.
    Okay fine. Whatever. You want to tilt at windmills, have at it.

    Clete

    "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

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  17. #2636
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clete View Post
    Okay fine. Whatever. You want to tilt at windmills, have at it.
    Quixote was crazy but actually believed the windmills were giants. Point is, at least he had sincerity going for him.
    "There is one thing worse than going to Hell. That would be going to Hell and having it be a surprise."
    Terence Mc Lean

    [most will be very surprised]


    Everyone who has not believed the Gospel of grace is not saved, no matter what else they believe or do.
    By that measure, how many professing Christians are on their way to the Lake of Fire?

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    Paul states that the call of God is to preach the gospel. What Paul means by “the gospel” is the fact of the reality of Redemption in our Lord Jesus Christ. Fact. Faith not needed.
    "That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;" Philippians 2:15 (KJV)

  20. #2638
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    Quote Originally Posted by musterion View Post
    Since you despise every MAD here and since no non-MAD seems to think you represent MAD...perhaps you should just leave.

    At least confine your efforts to defending your leftist fellow travelers on politics. You just waste your time on Bible topics, as even you have recently indicated.

    You find us wearisome and I'm pretty sure we all think the same of you. You have even been invited to provide bullet point objections to anything we have posted, in your own dedicated, protected thread. You refused. What more need be said?

    So...go.
    Even you had to agree with some of my findings (in some of YOUR posts to the Hybrids, over in the "MAD" forum).

    Start your own forum, Musti. That should solve your need to ban any one who calls you out on your double-standard.

    Problem solved.

    Rom. 5:6-8.

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