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Thread: Battle Royale XIV discussion thread

  1. #91
    Gold level Subscriber Bob Enyart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angel4Truth View Post
    Bob E, excellent first post!
    Thanks A4T! (Oh yeah, and I love your motto

    - Bob E.
    The Bob Enyart Live talk show airs at KGOV.com weekdays at 5 pm E.T. Also, same time, same station, check out Theology Thursday (.com) and on Fridays, Real Science Radio (.com) a.k.a. rsr.org. All shows are available 24/7 and you can call us at at 1-800-8Enyart.

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    Silver Member Ktoyou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post
    I believe in the verbal plenary inspiration of Scripture. God's sovereignty prepared the writers, their lives, experiences, vocabulary, so that they would write exactly what God wanted to be written. .....




    When God uses human language so that temporal man may understand His truthful revelation, there is a supernatural warrant—it is God speaking through the writer—that the Scriptures will not be in error. Holy Scripture is not the word of God in the words of men.


    AMR
    I believe something very similar to this, not exactly the same, although so similar; it might be parsimonious, yet valid, to state I believe the same.
    So, what?

    believe it!

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  5. #93
    Silver Member George Affleck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post

    Unfortunately for his argument, God never promised that there would be a complete and inerrant Bible available for anyone.
    1 Cor 13:10KJV, Eph 5:8KJV, Psa 119:105KJV John 14:26KJV, 2 Pet 1:15KJV, Heb 4:12KJV, 2 Cor 2:17KJV, Psa 119:130KJV, 1Th 2:13KJV, 2 Pet 1:21KJV, 1Pe 1:25KJV
    Religion is man's attempt to make himself acceptable to God. Christianity is God making man acceptable to Himself.

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  6. #94
    LIFETIME MEMBER Desert Reign's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    The first reason is he desperately wants to believe that there exists a complete and inerrant word of God that can be found in a book that he can hold in his hand.
    The second reason is that people that do not believe that the KJV is the complete and inerrant word of God do not believe that there is any complete and inerrant word of God to be found on earth.
    The third reason is that he agrees with the doctrines that come from using the KJV.
    Excellent analysis. I thought it was a great deal of whining and wishful thinking. Along with straw men.

    I also thought that BE/WD were much more direct and all but one of their points was quite objective.

    Examples:

    From WK:
    I used to naively think that all bible versions were basically the same and that they all taught the same things but just with different or more modernized words.
    My reaction: the argument that the KJV is better than some other version or versions does not amount to evidence of it being the only perfect version.

    From BE/WD:
    By the testimony of the translators themselves, including in their own preface to the 1611, and like many previous versions, the 1611 King James Bible itself was a revision. This brings us to our next question, with the BR XIV Rules requiring that numbered questions are repeated by the opponent, and then answered forthrightly.

    BWQ6: Will Kinney, please explain how God revealed to mankind that the KJ is the only inspired version of the Bible, and please indicate when, i.e., what year, this was first known?
    I don't know of any way WK can answer this question. I expect him to avoid it. All he can say is that he just wants there to be an English infallible version. In other words wishful thinking. In fact, the tone of his opening post was so emotive that I don't expect the debate to follow on standard scholarly lines at all. I don't think that WK is up to it. He does quote a lot of examples but these are only examples of his emotive, personal and subjective views, not of an objective argument, so the many examples are somewhat a waste of his time and ours in my view.

    Originally Posted by genuineoriginal

    Unfortunately for his argument, God never promised that there would be a complete and inerrant Bible available for anyone.

    Quote Originally Posted by George Affleck View Post
    1 Cor 13:10KJV, Eph 5:8KJV, Psa 119:105KJV John 14:26KJV, 2 Pet 1:15KJV, Heb 4:12KJV, 2 Cor 2:17KJV, Psa 119:130KJV, 1Th 2:13KJV, 2 Pet 1:21KJV, 1Pe 1:25KJV
    Not a single one of these scriptures teaches anything close to there being a book called the Bible which is the definitive inspired revelation of God. Not even close. I wonder why you posted them?
    Total Misanthropy.
    Uncertain salvation.
    Luck of the draw.
    Irresistible damnation.
    Persecution of the saints.

    Time is an illusion; lunchtime doubly so.
    (The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy)

    RevTestament: It doesn't matter to me too much that the "New Testament wasn't written in Hebrew.
    Dialogos: Calvin, as a sinner, probably got some things wrong.
    Brandplucked: I'm shocked that other people disagree with me.

  7. #95
    I am Miss America because I say so, you must agree Angel4Truth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Enyart View Post
    Thanks A4T! (Oh yeah, and I love your motto

    - Bob E.
    Thanks
    <a href=http://theologyonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=23146&d=1455650224 target=_blank>http://theologyonline.com/attachment...6&d=1455650224</a>

    "Around the country, progressive bullies have attacked Christians for daring to put their faith ahead of the pet causes of those who feign compassion while destroying life-giving liberties. What we are seeing is a scorched-earth, take-no-prisoners approach as the wildfire burns across our land. It is not enough that Christians be quiet. Christians must be silenced and punished. Their faith cannot be respected. Legislation that ensures people are free to live and work according to their faith without fear of being punished by government must be stopped and decried as discrimination...There is one key reason that those on the Left must force their beliefs on the rest of us: if they didn't force their craziness on us, we would never embrace it." ~Erick Erickson

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  9. #96
    Silver Member George Affleck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desert Reign View Post
    Not a single one of these scriptures teaches anything close to there being a book called the Bible which is the definitive inspired revelation of God.
    How about this one? Matthew 24:35KJV

    Preserved as campfire stories perhaps?
    Religion is man's attempt to make himself acceptable to God. Christianity is God making man acceptable to Himself.

    - Psalmist
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  10. #97
    I am Miss America because I say so, you must agree Angel4Truth's Avatar
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    Will Kinney says this:

    Some versions like the ESV, NIV, NASB, RSV omit about 3000 words from the texts found in the KJB and NKJV, including anywhere from 17 to 45 entire verses, and they often reject the Hebrew readings. They also add to them, and not even in the same places.
    He admits the NKJV on part with the KJV here, so what exactly is his objection to the NKJV? Does he not believe it as "inspired" as the KJV?

    PS - i took the names from the post this above was written in, at the begining it says " King James Bible Debate with Bob Enyart and Will Duffy" Sorry, confused the wills, and fixed the post
    Last edited by Angel4Truth; November 2nd, 2015 at 06:32 PM. Reason: fixed name
    <a href=http://theologyonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=23146&d=1455650224 target=_blank>http://theologyonline.com/attachment...6&d=1455650224</a>

    "Around the country, progressive bullies have attacked Christians for daring to put their faith ahead of the pet causes of those who feign compassion while destroying life-giving liberties. What we are seeing is a scorched-earth, take-no-prisoners approach as the wildfire burns across our land. It is not enough that Christians be quiet. Christians must be silenced and punished. Their faith cannot be respected. Legislation that ensures people are free to live and work according to their faith without fear of being punished by government must be stopped and decried as discrimination...There is one key reason that those on the Left must force their beliefs on the rest of us: if they didn't force their craziness on us, we would never embrace it." ~Erick Erickson

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  12. #98
    LIFETIME MEMBER Desert Reign's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by George Affleck View Post
    How about this one? Matthew 24:35KJV

    Preserved as campfire stories perhaps?
    Nope, not that one either.

    Edit:
    Well, GA just called me thick in a rep comment. However, I fail to see how a printed book can exist when heaven and Earth have both passed away. Back to you chum to be a little clearer and use words.
    Last edited by Desert Reign; November 2nd, 2015 at 05:06 PM.
    Total Misanthropy.
    Uncertain salvation.
    Luck of the draw.
    Irresistible damnation.
    Persecution of the saints.

    Time is an illusion; lunchtime doubly so.
    (The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy)

    RevTestament: It doesn't matter to me too much that the "New Testament wasn't written in Hebrew.
    Dialogos: Calvin, as a sinner, probably got some things wrong.
    Brandplucked: I'm shocked that other people disagree with me.

  13. #99
    Silver Member patrick jane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desert Reign View Post
    Nope, not that one either.

    Edit:
    Well, GA just called me thick in a rep comment. However, I fail to see how a printed book can exist when heaven and Earth have both passed away. Back to you chum to be a little clearer and use words.
    Because The Word is Truth and can not pass away
    1 Corinthians 15:1-2 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV -


    Colossians 1:13-14 KJV - Colossians 1:15-16 KJV - Colossians 1:17-18 KJV -

    Colossians 1:19-20 KJV - Colossians 1:21-22 KJV - Colossians 1:23 KJV -

    Colossians 1:25-26 KJV 27, 28, 29 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Ephesians 1:12-13, 14 -



  14. #100
    Journeyman GodsfreeWill's Avatar
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    Hi everyone, Will Duffy here. I hope you are all enjoying the debate. I know I thoroughly enjoyed preparing the last few months, including some international travel to really get hands-on with documents that are hundreds of years old.

    So here's a peculiar one. Maybe someone can help me understand and comprehend this, because I'm at a loss for words. I am getting booted and blocked from King James Only groups on Facebook for promoting this debate. I have not made one argument or said anything about the KJB. I simply posted a link to TOL to make others aware of the debate. Is this even comprehensible?

    Maybe others here could help me promote the debate on Facebook in the various King James Only groups, since I'm quickly running out of options. You'd think they would want to promote this, right?
    "Ignorance sustained by denial is crippling this nation's response to abortion. When something is so horrifying that we can't stand to look at it, perhaps we shouldn't be tolerating it." -Gregg Cunningham (Center for Bio-Ethical Reform)

  15. #101
    Silver Member George Affleck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desert Reign View Post
    Nope, not that one either.

    Edit:
    Well, GA just called me thick in a rep comment. However, I fail to see how a printed book can exist when heaven and Earth have both passed away. Back to you chum to be a little clearer and use words.
    That's because you're still focused on the printed book. The Word of God exists inerrantly because God promised to preserve it. If he decides, during one period of history that it should be preserved as ketchup written in the Sahara sand, it will be so. If he decides to preserve it as literature, it will be so. The medium is not the essence of the truth, just the vehicle. The essence of the truth is preserved revelation.

    Now, where is it?
    Religion is man's attempt to make himself acceptable to God. Christianity is God making man acceptable to Himself.

    - Psalmist
    - Desert Reign

  16. #102
    Over 500 post club False Prophet's Avatar
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    The world’s book like the Bible can never be exhausted, nor can any one person completely report it. It has as many aspects as it has translators. Most commend it to its readers as a book of morals, and to many it is the world’s great fairy tail. Others find it as an archaic historical document. While many find in it religious inspiration as the only true book of faith.

  17. #103
    Over 6000 post club genuineoriginal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    Unfortunately for his argument, God never promised that there would be a complete and inerrant Bible available for anyone.
    Quote Originally Posted by George Affleck View Post
    1 Cor 13:10KJV, Eph 5:8KJV, Psa 119:105KJV John 14:26KJV, 2 Pet 1:15KJV, Heb 4:12KJV, 2 Cor 2:17KJV, Psa 119:130KJV, 1Th 2:13KJV, 2 Pet 1:21KJV, 1Pe 1:25KJV
    If those verses are supposed to show that God has promised that there would be a complete and inerrant Bible available for anyone, then they prove my point very nicely, since none of the verses even come close to a promise of a complete and inerrant Bible.

    Quote Originally Posted by George Affleck View Post
    How about this one? Matthew 24:35KJV
    No, that doesn't provide any promise about a complete and inerrant Bible, either.

    Maybe you should have started with this one, since it actually speaks about a written book.

    John 21:25
    25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

    Learn to read what is written.

    _____
    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

  18. #104
    Over 750 post club Brother Vinny's Avatar
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    As an AMPO, this thread is pertinent to my interests.
    "To deny Calvinism is to deny the gospel of Jesus Christ." - Charles Spurgeon

  19. #105
    Silver Member patrick jane's Avatar
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    I read most of Will Kinney's first post and agreed. Then I read the first part of Bob Enyart's and found myself agreeing. I'll have to go back tomorrow and read them both in full.

    I have and easy solution, I stick to KJV only and have a good NIV for concordance. My NIV is a Life Application Study Bible. I always do my personal Bible reading from the KJV, so I win either way
    1 Corinthians 15:1-2 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV -


    Colossians 1:13-14 KJV - Colossians 1:15-16 KJV - Colossians 1:17-18 KJV -

    Colossians 1:19-20 KJV - Colossians 1:21-22 KJV - Colossians 1:23 KJV -

    Colossians 1:25-26 KJV 27, 28, 29 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Ephesians 1:12-13, 14 -



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