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Thread: Noah's Ark & post-flood speciation

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    Over 2000 post club Alate_One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TracerBullet View Post
    So how did all the fish, crustaceans, microorganisms and aquatic mammals survive?
    One wonders how the many species of Nepenthes pitcher plants and orchids survived.

    Nepenthes have seeds that can only stay alive for a month and can take 9 months to germinate. Plus today there are dozens of species of Nepenthes with an extremely wide range of adaptations.

    Orchids produce tiny seeds that must be infected by a specific fungus to grow. The seeds of both types of plants would have to somehow survive a global flood and land in just the right location to germinate and survive.
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    Over 5000 post club CherubRam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by User Name View Post
    According to Genesis 6:19-20, Noah was instructed to take male and female pairs of every "kind" of animal that walked the face of the earth. Several questions came to my mind about this, and I am wondering how those who take this story at its literal face value can answer them:

    1) How many different "kinds" of animals do you estimate were taken aboard Noah's ark?

    2) How many different species do scientists estimate to exist today?

    3) How many species are believed to have existed throughout the entirety of earth's existence?

    Thanks in advance to anyone who offers answers to these questions!
    "Kinds," not every kind; of the land animals. By the way, gopher wood is a type of plywood. It is wood strips or boards that were laminated together with pitch.

    Gen 7:8 Pairs of clean and unclean animals, of birds and of all creatures that move along the ground, 9 male and female, came to Noah and entered the ark, as God had commanded Noah.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CherubRam View Post
    By the way, gopher wood is a type of plywood.
    You should tell the New International Bible, the New Living Translation, the NET Bible, and GOD'S WORD® Translation that you, CherubRam, have resolved the uncertainty over what gopher wood is. They all think it is cypress.

    Stuart

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alate_One View Post
    One wonders how the many species of Nepenthes pitcher plants and orchids survived.

    Nepenthes have seeds that can only stay alive for a month and can take 9 months to germinate. Plus today there are dozens of species of Nepenthes with an extremely wide range of adaptations.

    Orchids produce tiny seeds that must be infected by a specific fungus to grow. The seeds of both types of plants would have to somehow survive a global flood and land in just the right location to germinate and survive.
    Silly Alate, Goddidit with a miracle. the Christian deity is all powerful. He made sure the kangaroo kind wound up in Australia for example. It was all in his plan.

    As was the Flood to begin with because he knows all things from the beginning.

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    Quote Originally Posted by George Affleck View Post
    ...and while you're at it 6days, what is the Bible anyways? I can't seems to found it anywheres.
    Such difficult questions! Ha
    Without Genesis, absolutely nothing makes sense in all of Scripture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 6days View Post
    Such difficult questions! Ha
    Do you have an answer to my question?

    Stuart

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuu View Post
    You should tell the New International Bible, the New Living Translation, the NET Bible, and GOD'S WORD® Translation that you, CherubRam, have resolved the uncertainty over what gopher wood is. They all think it is cypress.

    Stuart
    I doubt that they would listen. The word "gopher" has to do with the boring of wood. That is what gophers are known for, boring through the ground.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CherubRam View Post
    I doubt that they would listen. The word "gopher" has to do with the boring of wood. That is what gophers are known for, boring through the ground.
    What idiots they are, missing out on a gem of a fact like that.

    Stuart

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuu View Post
    What idiots they are, missing out on a gem of a fact like that.

    Stuart
    It's the usual story, no one likes to admit error. Human nature as usual.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonahdog View Post
    Silly Alate, Goddidit with a miracle. the Christian deity is all powerful. He made sure the kangaroo kind wound up in Australia for example. It was all in his plan.

    As was the Flood to begin with because he knows all things from the beginning.
    There use to be a land bridge to Australia. The water level use to be much lower after the flood. Most likely do to collecting as snow and ice at the poles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CherubRam View Post
    There use to be a land bridge to Australia. The water level use to be much lower after the flood. Most likely do to collecting as snow and ice at the poles.
    Nope. There was never a land bridge from the Middle East to Australia. There are no fossils or any evidence of Kangaroos ever living outside of Australia and New Guinea.

    That's why we have the Wallace Line that divides Australian and New Guinea fauna from fauna native to the Asian mainland. It was one of the major types of evidence that gave people the idea of evolution.



    Organisms evolve in particular places and are isolated from other parts of the world. That's why hummingbirds are only found in the Americas. There's no evidence of a recent global flood that mixed them all up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CherubRam View Post
    It's the usual story, no one likes to admit error. Human nature as usual.
    Well I know. Obviously the instruction to use gopher wood is an indication from the LORD to Noah to bore big holes in the ark so the polar bears onboard could reach through and catch fish instead of munching on the pair of / seven pairs of seals.

    Could the gophers have even done the boring, do you think?

    Stuart

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alate_One
    There are no fossils or any evidence of Kangaroos ever living outside of Australia and New Guinea.
    There also is no fossil evidence of lions in present day Israel.*

    Quote Originally Posted by Alate_One
    Organisms evolve in particular places and are isolated from other parts of the world.
    Organisms adapt to various environments through a loss of pre-existing genetic info. Natural selection eliminates. Isolated populations (Such as on small islands) *generally become genetically fragile, and sometimes become extinct.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alate_One

    That's why hummingbirds are only found in the Americas. There's no evidence of a recent global flood that mixed them all up.
    Here is evidence...

    Gen. 7:17" For forty days the flood kept coming on the earth, and as the waters increased they lifted the ark high above the earth. 18 The waters rose and increased greatly on the earth, and the ark floated on the surface of the water. 19 They rose greatly on the earth, and all the high mountains under the entire heavens were covered. 20 The waters rose and covered the mountains to a depth of more than fifteen cubits.[a][b] 21 Every living thing that moved on land perished—birds, livestock, wild animals, all the creatures that swarm over the earth, and all mankind. 22 Everything on dry land that had the breath of life in its nostrils died. 23 Every living thing on the face of the earth was wiped out; people and animals and the creatures that move along the ground and the birds were wiped from the earth. Only Noah was left, and those with him in the ark."
    Without Genesis, absolutely nothing makes sense in all of Scripture.

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    Remember, as 6days agrees, all this creationism and flood stuff is just a "belief about the past", not science.
    "The way to deal with superstition is not to be polite to it, but to tackle it with all arms, and so rout it, cripple it, and make it forever infamous and ridiculous." --H.L. Mencken

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    But just for fun...

    So bigger picture-wise, if "kinds" are roughly equivalent to taxonomic families, that raises an interesting issue given other creationist arguments.

    Let's say there is a "cat kind", which means Noah took aboard the Ark two (or seven, depending on which of the two stories you read) representatives of the "cat kind", from which all of today's species of cats are descended. But remember, creationists also argue that mutation cannot increase the amount of "genetic information" in a genome, and that genomes have been degrading over time since The Fall.

    So exactly how is a single breeding pair of cats able to give rise to the diversity of cats we see around us today....everything from tigers to house cats...without adding a single bit of "genetic information", and given the claim that the genomes have only been "degrading"?
    "The way to deal with superstition is not to be polite to it, but to tackle it with all arms, and so rout it, cripple it, and make it forever infamous and ridiculous." --H.L. Mencken

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