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Thread: Noah's Ark & post-flood speciation

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    Quote Originally Posted by User Name View Post
    Going by Woodmorappe's estimate, there were 15,754 "kinds" of animals on the ark. So how do we get to an estimated 6.5 million terrestrial species today? Also, how do we account for all of the extinct species, whose numbers are estimated to be in the hundreds of millions?
    Not a problem since God tells us it happened.
    Also, you might have noticed threads here in the past that the creationist model is rapid adaptation.
    As a Christian...you should be interested in the harmony between scripture and science, rather than trying to find things to disagree with.
    Yes the ark was big enough.....
    Yes there is enough water to cover the world as described in the Bible.
    Yes Christ was born of a virgin.
    Yes Christ resurrected from the dead on the third day... ETC
    Without Genesis, absolutely nothing makes sense in all of Scripture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by patrick jane View Post
    yes, i agree. but what about all the plants/vegetation ?
    Plants and animals were not taken.
    Land animals and birds were
    Without Genesis, absolutely nothing makes sense in all of Scripture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by User Name View Post
    According to Genesis 6:19-20, Noah was instructed to take male and female pairs of every "kind" of animal that walked the face of the earth. Several questions came to my mind about this, and I am wondering how those who take this story at its literal face value can answer them:

    1) How many different "kinds" of animals do you estimate were taken aboard Noah's ark?

    2) How many different species do scientists estimate to exist today?

    3) How many species are believed to have existed throughout the entirety of earth's existence?

    Thanks in advance to anyone who offers answers to these questions!
    1. The answer is in the text. The number is not relevant.

    2. Not relevant.

    3. Not relevant.

    And by not relevant, I am referring to your attempt to discredit the Holy words of God in the Bible.
    Where is the evidence for a global flood?
    E≈mc2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
    1. The answer is in the text. The number is not relevant.

    2. Not relevant.

    3. Not relevant.

    And by not relevant, I am referring to your attempt to discredit the Holy words of God in the Bible.
    Thanks for your answers to those questions, Nick.

    If anyone else would like to participate, I would appreciate it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 6days View Post
    Whitcomb and Morris investigated
    Hilarious. Tell us another.

    Stuart

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    Quote Originally Posted by User Name View Post
    According to Genesis 6:19-20, Noah was instructed to take male and female pairs of every "kind" of animal that walked the face of the earth. Several questions came to my mind about this, and I am wondering how those who take this story at its literal face value can answer them:

    1) How many different "kinds" of animals do you estimate were taken aboard Noah's ark?

    2) How many different species do scientists estimate to exist today?

    3) How many species are believed to have existed throughout the entirety of earth's existence?

    Thanks in advance to anyone who offers answers to these questions!
    1) Millions

    2) 6.5 million species to date discovered on land and 2.2 million (about 25 percent of the total) dwelling in the ocean depths. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0823180459.htm

    3) There were 5 major extinction events before the Hebrews wrote Noah's flood story in Babylon. In the real world we have discovered at least 1,000 species of non-avian dinosaurs. But if we assume that every species living today had an ancestor at some time in the past the answer is a whole bunch!

    "Mortal man was never the property of the archdeceivers. Jesus did not die to ransom man from the clutch of the apostate rulers and fallen princes of the spheres. The Father in heaven never conceived of such crass injustice as damning a mortal soul because of the evil doing of his ancestors."UB

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    Quote Originally Posted by 6days View Post
    Not a problem since God tells us it happened.
    Is that how science works?

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    Quote Originally Posted by User Name View Post
    Is that how science works?
    Science is only possible because of our Creator who created in an orderly manner making discovery possible. In His Word we find absolute truth about Him... His creation... history. We also find absolute truth about ourselves.....our sinful nature... and the plan of redemption.
    As said earlier, as Christians, we should always start with the absolute authority of scripture.
    Without Genesis, absolutely nothing makes sense in all of Scripture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by George Affleck View Post
    Additionally, if the Bible is accurate (and I believe it is), the kinds taken on the Ark had a much greater potential for variation than the diluted versions of today. Technically, one generation is all that is needed to produce a new species.
    Um no. Having only two individuals drastically *limits* the potential for variation. That's simply the way genetics work. If you have two individuals you can have a maximum of FOUR variants at any particular location in the genome.

    Four variants 4000 years ago does not in any way match the incredible variation in animals, plants and even humans alive today.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alate_One View Post
    Um no. Having only two individuals drastically *limits* the potential for variation. That's simply the way genetics work. If you have two individuals you can have a maximum of FOUR variants at any particular location in the genome.
    Not if we start with the truth of God's Word. The kinds of animals going on the ark would have had very little genetic burden, and the full compliment of genetic information.
    Without Genesis, absolutely nothing makes sense in all of Scripture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alate_One View Post
    Having only two individuals drastically *limits* the potential for variation.
    Depends.

    You should know that yours was not a generally true statement being a biology teacher.

    That's simply the way genetics work. If you have two individuals you can have a maximum of FOUR variants at any particular location in the genome.


    You're an evolutionist.

    Four variants 4000 years ago does not in any way match the incredible variation in animals, plants and even humans alive today.
    That's because you deny the evidence.

    We know that a change in environment can prompt drastic and swift changes in a population that can have nothing to do with evolution.
    Last edited by Stripe; January 1st, 2018 at 11:58 PM.
    Where is the evidence for a global flood?
    E≈mc2
    When the world is a monster
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    Throw your trolls out the door

    "The waters under the 'expanse' were under the crust."
    -Bob B.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Alate_One View Post
    Not too many since I think the flood was local.


    It was mostly focused on saving domestic animals.
    If you want to save animals from a local flood, do nothing.

    And then God promised never again to flood the entire Earth send a local flood.

    Evolutionists are morons.

    About two million [species] have been described by [evolutionists]
    Even though they do not know what a "species" is.

    God gathered animals by according to their "kind" — a well-defined and rock-solid concept — not according to "species," which is a term so malleable as to be next to useless in a scientific discussion.
    Where is the evidence for a global flood?
    E≈mc2
    When the world is a monster
    Bad to swallow you whole
    Kick the clay that holds the teeth in
    Throw your trolls out the door

    "The waters under the 'expanse' were under the crust."
    -Bob B.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
    Depends.

    You should know this yours was not a generally true statement being a biology teacher.
    It is absolutely a true statement. What the ark in a global flood would be is a tremendous bottleneck effect for all land living species on earth.



    Every land living species on earth would have low genetic diversity.

    You're an evolutionist.
    And?

    That's because you deny the evidence.
    No, that would be you, in this very post.

    We know that a change in environment can prompt drastic and swift changes in a population that can have nothing to do with evolution.
    Oh are you positing DNA faeries again? Fun!

    I see you didn't watch either video.
    “We do not believe in God because we need to explain this or that feature of the world. That is what science is for. We believe in God because we see something deeper in the world, something that transcends the scientific explanations.” - Karl Giberson Ph.D.

    Some of the Evidence for Climate Change

    The Biologos Foundation - The science and faith of theistic evolution explained.

    What Darwin Never Knew

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
    God gathered animals by according to their "kind" — a well-defined and rock-solid concept — not according to "species," which is a term so malleable as to be next to useless in a scientific discussion.
    And yet you have never been able to provide well defined, rock solid definition of what a kind actually is.
    Galatians 5:22-23 (New International Version)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post

    If you want to save animals from a local flood, do nothing.

    And then God promised never again to flood the entire Earth send a local flood.
    It has to do with the human population in the area - but hey bothering to think would be beyond your capabilities.

    Even though they do not know what a "species" is.

    God gathered animals by according to their "kind" — a well-defined and rock-solid concept — not according to "species," which is a term so malleable as to be next to useless in a scientific discussion.
    Stripe, you don't know what a kind is. You can't tell me which organisms are kinds or not. I can tell you which organisms are species and which are not quite easily.

    The smoke blowing about kinds and species got old about three years ago.

    Are these all the same kind?


    How about these?
    Spoiler

    “We do not believe in God because we need to explain this or that feature of the world. That is what science is for. We believe in God because we see something deeper in the world, something that transcends the scientific explanations.” - Karl Giberson Ph.D.

    Some of the Evidence for Climate Change

    The Biologos Foundation - The science and faith of theistic evolution explained.

    What Darwin Never Knew

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