User Tag List

Results 1 to 13 of 13

Thread: "Free" and at "Liberty" Found in the General Epistles

  1. #1
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    San Luis Potosi,Mexico
    Posts
    13,973
    Thanks
    1,285
    Thanked 8,756 Times in 5,749 Posts

    Mentioned
    104 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    2147842

    "Free" and at "Liberty" Found in the General Epistles

    The Apostle Paul repeatedly used the words "free" and "liberty" when referring to the fact that those in the Body of Christ have been set free from the law:

    "And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage" (Gal.2:4).

    "Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage" (Gal.5:1).

    In fact, Paul charged the Galatians not to use the liberty as a base of operations for sin:

    "For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another" (Gal.5:13).

    That practically mirrors the words of Peter found in his first epistle:

    "As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God" (1 Pet.2:16).

    It is the "perfect law of liberty" which applies to those who received the epistle of James:

    "But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed" (James 1:25).

    Are we to believe that the "law of liberty" spoken of here is the Law, which Peter referred to as a "yoke"?:

    "Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?" (Acts 15:10).

    Paul also referred to the Law as a "yoke of bondage":

    "Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage" (Gal.5:1).

    In fact, Paul contrasted the "yoke of bondage" with the "liberty" which belongs to all who have been set free from the law. So common sense dictates that the "perfect law of liberty" of which James speaks is not the Law of Moses.

    Instead, James uses of the phrase "perfect law of liberty" in the same sense which Paul uses the phrase the "law of faith":

    "Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law" (Ro.3:27-31).

    It is the "law of faith" which establishes the law for all believers, including the "circumcision." The following translation enables us to understand exactly how "faith" establishes the law:

    "Well then, if we emphasize faith, does this mean that we can forget about the law? Of course not! In fact, only when we have faith do we truly fulfill the law" (Ro.3:31).

    The Greek word translated "establish" and "fulfill" is histemi and it means "to uphold or sustain the authority or force of anything...Ro. iii. 31" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).

    It is when we walk by faith that the force of the law is upheld. In what way is the force of the law upheld by faith? It is only when we "walk by faith" (2 Cor.5:7) that it can be said that we are walking after the Spirit and it is only then when we are fulfilling the righteousness of the law:

    "That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit" (Ro.8:4).

    Those who received the epistle of James were saved the second they believed the truth of the gospel, as witnessed by James' words here:

    "He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created" (Jas.1:18).

    This matches perfectly with the writings of Peter where he tells the Jewish believers that they are "born again" by the word of God, specifically the gospel:

    "Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God...And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you" (1 Pet.1:23,25).

    The keeping of the Law had absolutely nothing to do with the Jews receiving salvation as they were saved by faith and faith alone. Despite these facts, those in the Neo-MAD community teach that the doctrine found in the Hebrew epistles (Hebrews through Jude) cannot be for those in the Body of Christ because those epistles teach that salvation cannot be had apart from works.
    Last edited by Jerry Shugart; September 15th, 2015 at 07:32 AM.

  2. #2
    TOL Legend
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    15,664
    Thanks
    370
    Thanked 3,871 Times in 2,894 Posts

    Blog Entries
    1
    Mentioned
    39 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    1249375
    The principle found in this passage describes what you have failed at for decades:

    As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God" (1 Pet.2:16).

    While the principle of the following passage ends up a principle you would that others replace with "kow tow to Jerry's would be bondage over you."

    "Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage" (Gal.5:1).

    Fact is, that "whatsoever is not of faith, is sin," Rom. 14:23.

  3. #3
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    San Luis Potosi,Mexico
    Posts
    13,973
    Thanks
    1,285
    Thanked 8,756 Times in 5,749 Posts

    Mentioned
    104 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    2147842
    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    The principle found in this passage describes what you have failed at for decades:

    As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God" (1 Pet.2:16).

    While the principle of the following passage ends up a principle you would that others replace with "kow tow to Jerry's would be bondage over you."

    "Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage" (Gal.5:1).

    Fact is, that "whatsoever is not of faith, is sin," Rom. 14:23.
    As usual you answer none of the points which I made in my OP.

    You just jabber on and on in the hope that no one will notice that you just evaded the points which I made.

  4. #4
    TOL Legend
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    15,664
    Thanks
    370
    Thanked 3,871 Times in 2,894 Posts

    Blog Entries
    1
    Mentioned
    39 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    1249375
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    As usual you answer none of the points which I made in my OP.

    You just jabber on and on in the hope that no one will notice that you just evaded the points which I made.
    The only point worth answering you on is the one you have been violating for decades - that where each person is as to the various issues, we are to "Let every man be persuaded in his own mind... For whatsoever is not of faith is sin," Rom. 14: 5, 23.

  5. #5
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    San Luis Potosi,Mexico
    Posts
    13,973
    Thanks
    1,285
    Thanked 8,756 Times in 5,749 Posts

    Mentioned
    104 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    2147842
    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    The only point worth answering you on is the one you have been violating for decades - that where each person is as to the various issues, we are to "Let every man be persuaded in his own mind... For whatsoever is not of faith is sin," Rom. 14: 5, 23.
    Do you even know what the words "free" and "liberty" mean?

    Is that the reason why you continue to ignore them?

  6. #6
    TOL Legend
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    15,664
    Thanks
    370
    Thanked 3,871 Times in 2,894 Posts

    Blog Entries
    1
    Mentioned
    39 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    1249375
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Do you even know what the words "free" and "liberty" mean?

    Is that the reason why you continue to ignore them?
    "One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind... For whatsoever is not of faith is sin" Rom. 14:5, 23.

  7. #7
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    San Luis Potosi,Mexico
    Posts
    13,973
    Thanks
    1,285
    Thanked 8,756 Times in 5,749 Posts

    Mentioned
    104 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    2147842
    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    "One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind... For whatsoever is not of faith is sin" Rom. 14:5, 23.
    So in effect you are saying, "I have already made up my mind and I am right and the Scriptures are wrong."

  8. #8
    TOL Legend
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    15,664
    Thanks
    370
    Thanked 3,871 Times in 2,894 Posts

    Blog Entries
    1
    Mentioned
    39 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    1249375
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    So in effect you are saying, "I have already made up my mind and I am right and the Scriptures are wrong."
    Your narcissism is in the way again.

    Religion is bondage and is ever nitpicking... to where war becomes inevitable.

    Yours is exactly that - the religion of bow to Jerry Shugart. "Oh, that thread is not about my favorite pet peeve, well, lets change its direction - 'of course we know..."

    That is your religion. And it has you blind.

    Whereas Faith is not only liberty from self, but liberty towards others.

    In Faith, "whatsoever is not of faith, is sin."

    In other words, unless a man is not "fully persuaded in his own mind," then to attempt to force it on him, is as much sin against him, as it is sin for him to subscribe to it, just to appease the other side.

    Just to attempt to appease you.

    But what is really bad about this is that you don't see it. Your narcissism will not allow you.

  9. #9
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    San Luis Potosi,Mexico
    Posts
    13,973
    Thanks
    1,285
    Thanked 8,756 Times in 5,749 Posts

    Mentioned
    104 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    2147842
    All you continue to do is to divert the subject of this thread because you do not want anyone to see the truth.

    You think that if you attack me personally enough all those verses which I quoted about "liberty" and being "free" will just go away.

  10. #10
    TOL Legend
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    15,664
    Thanks
    370
    Thanked 3,871 Times in 2,894 Posts

    Blog Entries
    1
    Mentioned
    39 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    1249375
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    All you continue to do is to divert the subject of this thread because you do not want anyone to see the truth.

    You think that if you attack me personally enough all those verses which I quoted about "liberty" and being "free" will just go away.
    Yo, Grace Fraud - "whatsoever is not of faith is sin," Rom. 14:23.

  11. #11
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    San Luis Potosi,Mexico
    Posts
    13,973
    Thanks
    1,285
    Thanked 8,756 Times in 5,749 Posts

    Mentioned
    104 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    2147842
    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    Yo, Grace Fraud - "whatsoever is not of faith is sin," Rom. 14:23.
    You are the fraud because you come on this thread and never once actually address anything that I said in my OP.

    Of course your intent is to try to divert the subject of this thread in the hope that no one will see the verses which prove that those who received the Hebrew epistles were "free" and at 'liberty" from the law:

    "As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God" (1 Pet.2:16).

    "But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed" (James 1:25).

    It is hard to believe that someone who calls herself a "Christian" can stoop so low.

  12. #12
    TOL Legend
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    15,664
    Thanks
    370
    Thanked 3,871 Times in 2,894 Posts

    Blog Entries
    1
    Mentioned
    39 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    1249375
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    You are the fraud because you come on this thread and never once actually address anything that I said in my OP.

    Of course your intent is to try to divert the subject of this thread in the hope that no one will see the verses which prove that those who received the Hebrew epistles were "free" and at 'liberty" from the law:

    "As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God" (1 Pet.2:16).

    "But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed" (James 1:25).

    It is hard to believe that someone who calls herself a "Christian" can stoop so low.

    I've said all I have had to say to you at this point, Jerry - that "what so ever is not of faith is sin" Rom. 14:23.

    That you have no right to hound after others attempting not only to have them agree with you, but that they repeat their agreement with you back to you.

    I'll allow our exchanges on this issue to speak for themselves.

    Til our next unnecessary battle, but for your decades old would be straightening of others that you might glory in their flesh..

  13. #13
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    San Luis Potosi,Mexico
    Posts
    13,973
    Thanks
    1,285
    Thanked 8,756 Times in 5,749 Posts

    Mentioned
    104 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    2147842
    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    I've said all I have had to say to you at this point, Jerry - that "what so ever is not of faith is sin" Rom. 14:23.

    That you have no right to hound after others attempting not only to have them agree with you, but that they repeat their agreement with you back to you.
    This thread is for the purpose of discussing the Scriptures which refer to one's freedom and liberty which comes to those set free from law.

    But you have never even spoken on that subject and so it is you who is hounding me, not the other way around.

    Your only reason you have come on this thread is an effort to try to prevent others from seeing this truth and how it relates to those who received the Hebrew epistles:

    "As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God" (1 Pet.2:16).

    "But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed" (James 1:25).

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
About us
Since 1997 TheologyOnline (TOL) has been one of the most popular theology forums on the internet. On TOL we encourage spirited conversation about religion, politics, and just about everything else.

follow us