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Thread: Evidence that the Present Dispensation Began at Acts 9?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    It surprises me none that you call me a"neurotic fool" because I am doing what Paul tells those in the Body to do:

    "Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables" (2 Tim.4:2-4).

    Those in the Neo-MAD community have turned their ears from the truth that all men are saved by faith alone because they teach that the Jews who lived under the law could not be saved apart from works.

    But here we see that faith is the only thing which is required for salvation:

    "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).

    You have more faith in your fables than you do in what the Scriptures actually say. That is why I rebuke you and all those in the Neo-MAD community.
    You quoted 2 Tim. 4:2-4, but what you mean is hound after those you differ in any understanding with - hound after them for decades - hunt them down and sick your sick need to do that, on them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    At post #12 I said the following about Paul::
    I see no evidence that being a prisoner of Jesus Christ for the Gentiles is a dispensational responsibility but preaching the gospel of grace to the Gentiles was certainly his dispensational responsibility.
    I challenge you to quote me where I have ever said that Paul was not the first to receive the dispensation or stewardship to preach the gospel of grace.

    I am not in ignorance but I see no evidence coming from you that demonstrates that the present dispensation began at Acts 9.
    So you're one of those that think that a dispensation can start before it's dispensed. Got it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    So you're one of those that think that a dispensation can start before it's dispensed. Got it.
    Why do you keep accusing me of things which are not true?

    Again, I challenge you to quote me saying such a thing.

    I can see that you are so intent on finally winning an argument that you just make up things about your opponents position.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    So you're one of those that think that a dispensation can start before it's dispensed. Got it.
    Its odd how the world understands phrases like "baptism of fire" or a word like "dispensation," yet "Bible" students are often clueless.

    Go down to the Home Depot Paint Department and request a specific color of paint off one of those color swatches.

    They will then grab a gallon of White paint, place it in a Paint Mix Dispenser, and press certain buttons.

    Said Dispenser then proceeds to dispense just the right measure of mix.

    What does that little window read while that is happening, and until the fulness of that mix be come in?

    "Dispensing..."

    Jerry's problem is that his Bible is missing passages like the following from Romans 12's:

    3. For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    You quoted 2 Tim. 4:2-4, but what you mean is hound after those you differ in any understanding with - hound after them for decades - hunt them down and sick your sick need to do that, on them.
    I mean what I said. And all you do is to attack my character and run and hide from this verse which proves that you teaching is nothing more than a fable.

    "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).

    Of course you refuse to give your interpretation of the meaning of this verse because you do not have the ability to do so. And the reason is simple:

    "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned" (1 Cor.2:14).

    You are clueless about the meaning of John 3:16 and you know that you are. That is why you refuse to even attempt to give your interpretation of the meaning of John 3:16.

    You do not want others to see just how blind you are to the truths found in the Bible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Why do you keep accusing me of things which are not true?

    Again, I challenge you to quote me saying such a thing.

    I can see that you are so intent on finally winning an argument that you just make up things about your opponents position.
    Then I guess that your position is unclear to me.

    Do you believe that the dispensation of the grace of God was given to Paul? and that this occurred somewhere in the middle of the book of Acts? And that this dispensation is different than the dispensation given to Israel (i.e., the kingdom)?
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

  7. #22
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    Then I guess that your position is unclear to me.

    Do you believe that the dispensation of the grace of God was given to Paul? and that this occurred somewhere in the middle of the book of Acts? And that this dispensation is different than the dispensation given to Israel (i.e., the kingdom)?
    Yes on all three counts.

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    [QUOTE=Jerry Shugart;aning of John 3:16.

    You do not want others to see just how blind you are to the truths found in the Bible.[/QUOTE]


    Hi Jerry S , and John 3:16 reads , For God so loved the world , that He gave His only begotten Son , that whosoever believeth in Him should not PERISH , but have everlasting life !!

    #1 , This is not for the Body of Christ ! Nor can you prove it at any time !!

    #2 , Just like the CONTEXT of John 3:5 is beyond you !!

    #3 , He is speaking to Israel and not the BOC !!

    #4 , The verb PERISH is in the AORIST TENSE and is in Jesus earthly ministry !

    #5 The verb " HAVE " is in the Present Tense as well as the Verb " BELIEVETH " and speaks to those during Jesus ministry !!

    John 3:5 TRUMPED you !!

    Mid-Acts position is a cover for the Acts 13 position

    dan p

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    Quote Originally Posted by DAN P View Post
    1 , This is not for the Body of Christ ! Nor can you prove it at any time !!
    You evidently do not know that the meaning of the Greek word translated "whosoever" means "every one, any one" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).

    So with that in view the verse means this:

    "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that every one who believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).

    Why should anyone believe that this is only speaking of some who believe but not all who believe?

    #2 , Just like the CONTEXT of John 3:5 is beyond you !!
    I think that all of this is beyond you.

    #3 , He is speaking to Israel and not the BOC !!
    No, the words at John 3:16 are the words of John. The Lord Jesus' words ceased at John 3:12. Otherwidse we must believe that the Lord Jesus was speaking to Nicodemus on the earth and at the same time He told Nicodemus that He was in heaven (Jn.3:13). The Lord did not ascend into heaven until after He was resurrected from the dead.

    #4 , The verb PERISH is in the AORIST TENSE and is in Jesus earthly ministry !
    So? That does not help your argument in any way.

    #5 The verb " HAVE " is in the Present Tense as well as the Verb " BELIEVETH " and speaks to those during Jesus ministry !!
    Again, those are the words of John and they were written after the Lord's earthly ministry of His first advent was already over.

    John 3:5 TRUMPED you !!
    All you did was proved that you are confused.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    I see no evidence that the present "dispensation of the grace of God" began at Acts 9. Here are three quotes from the pen of Paul where he speaks of a "dispensation" that has been committed or given to him:

    "If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me toward you" (Eph. 3:2).

    "Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God" (Col.1:25).

    "...a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me" (1 Cor.9:17).

    The "dispensation" which was committed to Paul is in regard to "God's grace", a "ministry", and a "gospel." Here Paul sums up his dispensational responsibility:

    "But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God" (Acts 20: 24).

    The present dispensation began when the dispensational responsibility was first exercised by Paul. And since the following verse is speaking about Paul's gospel we can know that the present dispensation did not begin until he began to preach that gospel to Gentiles:

    "But when God, who set me apart from my mother’s womb and called me by his grace, was pleased to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, my immediate response was not to consult any human being" (Gal.1:15-16).

    I believe that Paul first preached the gospel of the grace of God to the Gentiles here:

    "Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles. For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth. And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed" (Acts 13:46-48).

    After an examination of all the evidence I can only conclude that the present "dispensation of the grace of God" began at Acts 13 and not Acts 9.

    What evidence can anyone give that it began at Acts 9?

    lol,not to be testy but you provide an scripture claiming the Gospel first began in Acts 13,,yet in Acts 13:46 KJV Paul himself states it was necessary for it to "first begin" with (those) and that he was then leaving and turning to the gentiles,,,"where again was it first delivered"?,,,,

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Yes on all three counts.
    So that makes you a Mid-Acts dispensationalist of some sort or another.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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    Quote Originally Posted by whitestone View Post
    lol,not to be testy but you provide an scripture claiming the Gospel first began in Acts 13,,yet in Acts 13:46 KJV Paul himself states it was necessary for it to "first begin" with (those) and that he was then leaving and turning to the gentiles,,,"where again was it first delivered"?,,,,
    The gospel which Paul peached prior to the one he preached at Acts 13 to the Gentiles was this one and he preached it to the Jews:

    "And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God...proving that this is the very Christ" (Acts 9:20,22).

    The gospel which was first preached to the Gentiles at Acts 13 is this one:

    "Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you...For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures" (1 Cor.15:1,3-4).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    So that makes you a Mid-Acts dispensationalist of some sort or another.
    That is correct. I follow the original MAD teaching of Sir Robert Anderson, the father of systemized Mid Acts Dispensationalism. In the original teaching, both Anderson and J.C. O'Hair taught that throughout history men have been saved in only one way--by grace through faith apart from works.

    Both men also taught that the TWELVE are members of the Body of Christ and that the doctrine found in the epistles beginning at Romans through Jude are for those in the Body of Christ.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    That is correct. I follow the original MAD teaching of Sir Robert Anderson, the father of systemized Mid Acts Dispensationalism. In the original teaching, both Anderson and J.C. O'Hair taught that throughout history men have been saved in only one way--by grace through faith apart from works.

    Both men also taught that the TWELVE are members of the Body of Christ and that the doctrine found in the epistles beginning at Romans through Jude are for those in the Body of Christ.
    So you think that some us are heretics because we have a view that scripture shows two distinct (and yet unified in God) realms for believers (as demonstrated by many scriptures, including Paul's reference to the dispensation of the fullness of times when BOTH are joined together)?
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    So you think that some us are heretics because we have a view that scripture shows two distinct (and yet unified in God) realms for believers (as demonstrated by many scriptures, including Paul's reference to the dispensation of the fullness of times when BOTH are joined together)?
    I believe that the original MAD teaching is the truth of God and it cannot be shown to be in error.

    On the other hand, the Neo-MAD teaching is full of errors and it is easily shown to be in error. Unfortunately, not many people are aware of the two different types of MAD and too often the original MAD is drug through the mud because of guilt by association with Neo-MAD.

    Neo-MAD is Satan's tool that in many instances hinders many from actually seeing the glorious truths of the true teaching of MAD!
    Last edited by Jerry Shugart; August 10th, 2015 at 10:43 PM.

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