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Thread: Was Jesus real?

  1. #46
    LIFETIME MEMBER Desert Reign's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jzeidler View Post
    On my thread please do not attack the PEOPLE, have a respectful dialogue with their argument. If you do not like my rules you may leave my thread. Thank you. Maybe instead of attacking their lack of belief show them the evidence for the historical Jesus I.e 1st and 2nd century historians. Thanks for being on my thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by jzeidler View Post
    If you don't have anything of meaning to add to this conversation please leave. I am trying to engage in an intelligent conversation with people.
    Rexlunae made a personal comment about the evidence for the man Jesus. You didn't criticise him for that. You did however criticise me for criticising him. This is not your debate. You started it but that doesn't make it your debate. If you think I have broken the rules of the forum then by all means make a complaint to the mods. If it is upheld then I will be told to desist and/or get points. On the other hand, if you want to encourage a decent debate, then you might try engaging with what I said.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Masada View Post
    DR, without any intention to exaggerate, you would not have the NT were not for the Pauline policy of Replacement Theology in it. RT is the essence of the NT. More so, a Christian preacher speaking from a pulpit, he or she cannot spend 5 minutes without speaking for RT. When Paul listened to the gospel being preached by the Apostles of Jesus, the impression he had was that they were preaching a different gospel about a different Jesus, and for that matter, he would consider them as false apostles, transforming themselves into the apostles of "Christ." (II Cor. 11:4-6, 13, 22) Later, Paul said to the Galatians that he would curse any one preaching a gospel different from his even an angel. (Gal. 1:6-9) The guy did mean business!
    Show me what passages you think support this. I do not believe Paul taught what is known as RT, but it is difficult making substantive comments without something concrete. RT is a dispensational kind of theology. I do not support dispensationalism, nor does the Bible.
    Last edited by Desert Reign; August 12th, 2015 at 04:13 PM.
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  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by chair View Post
    There is no difficulty in your believing that Jesus existed, or that he is the Messiah, or God, or whatever you want to believe. Go ahead, be my guest.

    The problem arises when you try to convince others of your ideas. They may expect you to present evidence that you simply don't have. Evidence that doesn't exist.
    You don't know what you are talking about. What evidence are you looking for exactly? Can you be more specific?

    That nature of the kind of truth itself makes it unable to be evidenced even when it is a truth. That's the case.

    And for your knowledge, humans in majority never rely on evidence to reach a truth, almost exclusively they rely on witnessing (the trusting with faith in other humans) to reach such a truth.


    Your insisting on evidence only shows that you are completely out of reality. In this very reality, 99.99% humans don't even have the evidence that the earth is actually revolving around the sun. Period. Humans in majority trust the works of a small group (0.01%) of humans called scientists to reach such a truth. Unlike historical events/figures and religious claims, a scientific truth is solidly and repeatedly verifiable though, with 99.99% humans don't even bother to do this verification or otherwise I will be the business man selling the long range telescopes.
    Last edited by Hawkins; August 12th, 2015 at 11:25 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Desert Reign View Post

    Show me what passages you think support this. I do not believe Paul taught what is known as RT, but it is idfficult making substantive comments without something concrete. RT is a dispensational kind of theology. I do not support dispensationalism, nor does the Bible.
    Sorry but, whether you want or not, you support Replacement Theology and I tell you how:

    The Magna Carta of RT - Gal. 4:21-31

    &. Needless to remind of, RT stands for Replacement Theology.

    1. Gal. 4:21 - It means that the Church of Galatia used to be a Nazarene synagogue which Paul had overturned into a Christian church.

    2. Gal. 4:22 - Abraham had two sons: Ishmael with Agar and Isaac with Sarah.

    3. Gal. 4:23 - Ishmael was born after the flesh and Isaac was born after the promise.

    4. Gal. 4:24 - Two Covenants: The Jewish one points to bondange after Agar.

    5. Gal. 4:25 - Agar points to Jerusalem in bondage under the Jews.

    6. Gal. 4:26 - The Promised Jerusalem from above is free and the mother of Christianity.

    7. Gal. 4:27 - Christians must rejoice as Sarah for mothering many more children aka Christians.

    8. Gal. 4:28 - Christians, after Isaac, are the children of the promise in Jesus.

    9. Gal. 4:29 - Jews who are born after the flesh persecute Christians who are born of the spirit.

    10. Gal. 4:30 - Scripture says to cast out Agar aka the Jewish covenant and her son aka the Jews for they shall not be heir with Isaac aka Christians, the son of Sarah aka Christianity.

    11. Gal. 4:31 - Christians are not children of Agar, the bond woman but of Sarah the free one.

    12. Conclusion - Can any one still claim that there is no RT in the New Testament? Hardly!

  4. #49
    Over 500 post club jzeidler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desert Reign View Post
    Rexlunae made a personal comment about the evidence for the man Jesus. You didn't criticise him for that. You did however criticise me for criticising him. This is not your debate. You started it but that doesn't make it your debate. If you think I have broken the rules of the forum then by all means make a complaint to the mods. If it is upheld then I will be told to desist and/or get points. On the other hand, if you want to encouragea decent debate, then you might try engaging with what I said.

    Understood. I'm just wanting everyone to respect everyone.

  5. #50
    Teenage Adaptive Ninja Turtle Stripe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jzeidler View Post
    Understood. I'm just wanting everyone to respect everyone.
    When you disrespect Jesus?

    Hypocrite.
    Where is the evidence for a global flood?
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    Was Jesus real?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
    When you disrespect Jesus?



    Hypocrite.

    When anyone disrespects anyone you still show respect for them as human beings and use evidence to show them they're wrong in a respectful adult manner. It's what Jesus did when people disrespected him. This is what I am expecting and encouraging on my thread. Please communicate with others in this way on my thread. Thank you.

  7. #52
    Journeyman j4jesus09's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jzeidler View Post
    What is your opinion? Was there a historical Jesus? If so who was he? If not what evidence do you have that Jesus wasn't real. Keep the discussion civil. I look forward to reading your posts.
    Yes, he was real. He was the Messiah the Son of God according to the bible. The bible is man's record of God from past, present, and future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jzeidler View Post
    When anyone disrespects anyone you still show respect for them as human beings and use evidence to show them they're wrong in a respectful adult manner.
    When morons like you come in pretending to have serious evidence that Jesus did not exist, we call them morons.

    If you want to be treated with respect, talk in a way that might elicit it.

    It's what Jesus did when people disrespected him.
    Evolutionists are forever turning to Jesus when it suits them.

    Please communicate with others in this way on my thread.
    Start a thread that doesn't question the existence of your creator and you might have a deal. Mock God, and prepare to be mocked yourself.
    Where is the evidence for a global flood?
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    Over 500 post club jzeidler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
    When morons like you come in pretending to have serious evidence that Jesus did not exist, we call them morons.

    If you want to be treated with respect, talk in a way that might elicit it.

    Evolutionists are forever turning to Jesus when it suits them.


    Start a thread that doesn't question the existence of your creator and you might have a deal. Mock God, and prepare to be mocked yourself.

    You should really try and get to know where the person stands before you presume what they believe. I'm not mocking God and I'm not denying Christ. I am a Trinitarian Christian that believes the orthodox teachings of the bible. I lost this thread because to acknowledge that Jesus exists is the starting point to an intelligent conversation one can have with people about Christianity.

    If you are unwilling to speak with respect to those on this thread get off.

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to jzeidler For Your Post:

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    Over 500 post club RevTestament's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
    When morons like you come in pretending to have serious evidence that Jesus did not exist, we call them morons.
    Because attacking first and asking questions later is always the best policy....

    Quote Originally Posted by jzeidler View Post
    Now that we have come to a conclusion that there was a historical Jesus let me post another question.

    Was that Jesus like the Jesus that we find in the bible?

    Go
    JZ you might need a tough skin at first here...cheers

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    Quote Originally Posted by jzeidler View Post
    You should really try and get to know where the person stands before you presume what they believe. I'm not mocking God and I'm not denying Christ. I am a Trinitarian Christian that believes the orthodox teachings of the bible.


    I lost this thread because to acknowledge that Jesus exists is the starting point to an intelligent conversation one can have with people about Christianity.
    People who reject Christ will say anything to justify their rebellion.

    If you are unwilling to speak with respect to those on this thread get off.
    You forgot to answer my opening question.
    Where is the evidence for a global flood?
    E≈mc2
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    Bad to swallow you whole
    Kick the clay that holds the teeth in
    Throw your trolls out the door

    "The waters under the 'expanse' were under the crust."
    -Bob B.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RevTestament View Post
    Because attacking first and asking questions later is always the best policy.
    Who attacked first? I asked a simple question and then got a lecture.
    Where is the evidence for a global flood?
    E≈mc2
    When the world is a monster
    Bad to swallow you whole
    Kick the clay that holds the teeth in
    Throw your trolls out the door

    "The waters under the 'expanse' were under the crust."
    -Bob B.

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    Of course Jesus was real

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    TOL Legend keypurr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jzeidler View Post
    You should really try and get to know where the person stands before you presume what they believe. I'm not mocking God and I'm not denying Christ. I am a Trinitarian Christian that believes the orthodox teachings of the bible. I lost this thread because to acknowledge that Jesus exists is the starting point to an intelligent conversation one can have with people about Christianity.

    If you are unwilling to speak with respect to those on this thread get off.
    You have my respect JZ, we differ in our theology but that is what TOL is all about. Your reasons for starting this thread are good.
    Psalm 1[/COLOR] and Job 28:28

    Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

    Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.

    I love the God of my Lord Jesus Christ

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkins View Post
    You don't know what you are talking about. What evidence are you looking for exactly? Can you be more specific?

    That nature of the kind of truth itself makes it unable to be evidenced even when it is a truth. That's the case.

    And for your knowledge, humans in majority never rely on evidence to reach a truth, almost exclusively they rely on witnessing (the trusting with faith in other humans) to reach such a truth.


    Your insisting on evidence only shows that you are completely out of reality. In this very reality, 99.99% humans don't even have the evidence that the earth is actually revolving around the sun. Period. Humans in majority trust the works of a small group (0.01%) of humans called scientists to reach such a truth. Unlike historical events/figures and religious claims, a scientific truth is solidly and repeatedly verifiable though, with 99.99% humans don't even bother to do this verification or otherwise I will be the business man selling the long range telescopes.
    Again. If you want to believe in Jesus, his resurrection, his being God, whatever- go ahead. If you want me to believe it, you will need some solid evidence. The fact that millions of Christians believe it isn't good enough. Why?
    1. They don't even claim that there is objective evidence (unlike scientists, who do claim that, and can produce the evidence)
    2. Christian beliefs have no advantage over other religions. Islam has millions of believers too.

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