User Tag List

Page 2 of 15 FirstFirst 1234512 ... LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 219

Thread: Was Jesus real?

  1. #16
    Over 4000 post club The Berean's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Wacky California
    Posts
    4,391
    Thanks
    12
    Thanked 529 Times in 335 Posts

    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    301045
    Quote Originally Posted by jzeidler View Post
    What is your opinion? Was there a historical Jesus? If so who was he? If not what evidence do you have that Jesus wasn't real. Keep the discussion civil. I look forward to reading your posts.
    How do you define "historical Jesus"?
    Your problem is not technology. The problem is YOU. You lack the will to change...You treat this planet as you treat each other. - Klaatu

    What are you talking about? There is no such thing as the "Mafia"......it doesn't exist. Just a bunch of lies told to defame honest hardworking Italians like myself. - TomO

    I will do you, let's see, goofy, wacky, and to the left side of the bell curve
    . -Ktoyou

    I'm white. I'm not black. I can't convert to being black. It doesn't matter how much I want to become black. I could listen to rap and date fat white women all day; for all that, I'll still remain white.- Traditio

  2. #17
    Over 6000 post club rexlunae's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    The high desert
    Posts
    6,034
    Thanks
    1,348
    Thanked 3,067 Times in 1,933 Posts

    Blog Entries
    1
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    1051560
    Quote Originally Posted by keypurr View Post
    Roman State docs.
    About the best that I know if is Tacitus, the Roman historian.


    "Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in JudŠa, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind".


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus_on_Christ

    I don't find it all that compelling as an attestation to the historicity, being a full century after the events depicted in the Gospels, but many do.
    Global warming denialists are like gravity denialists piloting a helicopter, determined to prove a point. We may not have time to actually persuade them of their mistake.

  3. #18
    Journeyman
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    scarborough
    Posts
    62
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 9 Times in 8 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    8678
    http://armariummagnus.blogspot.ca/20...ory-again.html

    That basically covers what you need to know.
    Last edited by eddie17; August 10th, 2015 at 12:23 AM.

  4. #19
    Over 3000 post club
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    3,350
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 1,092 Times in 762 Posts

    Mentioned
    35 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    271310
    It is very likely that there was a Rabbi with somewhat different ideas who had followers. Probably were more than one of those. Hebrew names that could be translated into "Jesus" are common, so to mean it seems very likely that there was such a Rabbi Jesus.

    Does this make the NT figure "Jesus" historical? Yes, but in a very limited sense.

  5. #20
    Over 500 post club jzeidler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    596
    Thanks
    65
    Thanked 98 Times in 68 Posts

    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    75466
    Quote Originally Posted by The Berean View Post
    How do you define "historical Jesus"?

    Was there at least a teacher in judea in the first century with died by crucifixion named Jesus.

  6. #21
    Over 4000 post club Caino's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    4,378
    Thanks
    117
    Thanked 328 Times in 297 Posts

    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    187584
    Jesus is knowable now, that's the function of the spirit of truth.

    "Mortal man was never the property of the archdeceivers. Jesus did not die to ransom man from the clutch of the apostate rulers and fallen princes of the spheres. The Father in heaven never conceived of such crass injustice as damning a mortal soul because of the evil doing of his ancestors."UB

  7. #22
    Over 750 post club Hedshaker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    http://soundcloud.com/dark-blue-man
    Posts
    959
    Thanks
    55
    Thanked 42 Times in 27 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    83284
    Quote Originally Posted by rexlunae View Post

    Originally Posted by aikido7 View Post
    The consensus of historical scholars say YES.
    I think it's interesting how often that is the line given in response to this question.
    If only those scholars would get together and take a vote on it we might know for sure
    I think it more interesting to be a Rising Ape than a Falling Angel - Terry Pratchet

    ---Science is the poetry of reality---

    Plenty of things happen after you die but none of them will involve you.

  8. #23
    Over 750 post club Hedshaker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    http://soundcloud.com/dark-blue-man
    Posts
    959
    Thanks
    55
    Thanked 42 Times in 27 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    83284
    Quote Originally Posted by jzeidler View Post

    Neither Tacitus, Lucian, Plini, Celsus nor Josephus were contemporaneous of the time in question, not to mention good evidence that Josephus' contribution is considered fraudulent. That video is nothing more than the usual apologetics that have been doing the rounds for centuries and do not clear up the doubt, as much as the video's author wishes it to be so.
    I think it more interesting to be a Rising Ape than a Falling Angel - Terry Pratchet

    ---Science is the poetry of reality---

    Plenty of things happen after you die but none of them will involve you.

  9. #24
    Over 500 post club jzeidler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    596
    Thanks
    65
    Thanked 98 Times in 68 Posts

    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    75466
    Quote Originally Posted by Hedshaker View Post
    Neither Tacitus, Lucian, Plini, Celsus nor Josephus were contemporaneous of the time in question, not to mention good evidence that Josephus' contribution is considered fraudulent. That video is nothing more than the usual apologetics that have been doing the rounds for centuries and do not clear up the doubt, as much as the video's author wishes it to be so.

    On this thread my desire is for people to think intellectually through this topic. Please take on the evidence he proposes and bring forth your counter argument. Please do not just ignore the argument, interact with it.

  10. #25
    TOL Legend keypurr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    8,241
    Thanks
    82
    Thanked 618 Times in 519 Posts

    Blog Entries
    1
    Mentioned
    40 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    132230
    Quote Originally Posted by jzeidler View Post
    On this thread my desire is for people to think intellectually through this topic. Please take on the evidence he proposes and bring forth your counter argument. Please do not just ignore the argument, interact with it.

    Thank you for this thread, I find it of interest.
    Psalm 1[/COLOR] and Job 28:28

    Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

    Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.

    I love the God of my Lord Jesus Christ

  11. #26
    Over 500 post club jzeidler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    596
    Thanks
    65
    Thanked 98 Times in 68 Posts

    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    75466
    Quote Originally Posted by keypurr View Post
    Thank you for this thread, I find it of interest.

    Thank you for your participation on this thread. I'm glad you like it.

  12. #27
    Over 3000 post club
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    3,350
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 1,092 Times in 762 Posts

    Mentioned
    35 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    271310
    Quote Originally Posted by jzeidler View Post
    Was there at least a teacher in judea in the first century with died by crucifixion named Jesus.
    Quite likely that there was. But that has no bearing on the truth of Christianity or the historicity of the stories in the New Testament. Considering the times, there were likely dozens of teachers in Judea who were crucified.

  13. #28
    Old Timer
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    379
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 59 Times in 48 Posts

    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    15620
    Show us any history 2000 ago you can consider to be legitimate.

    By the atheists' standard, it's none.

    Mind you that paper was not yet invented 2000 years ago. Show us the scrolls at least for us to verify how accurate it's translated.

    It remains the atheists' stupid game to fabricate a standard (under which no history can be deemed qualified) to deny Jesus.

    As a Chinese, we have more than 5000 years of history. However, early books can hardly be verifiable. We give credit to these few books simply because they are the only books available which mention about events happened at that time. If we discredit the few books, we have none for us to access that part of history.

    This is the nature of what history is. Set up a standard to qualify history is no more than lying to yourself with a self-deception. Just like any other human witnessing, history exists because an event and a figure is famous enough for certain human(s) to write about it. It always rely on later humans' faith to believe it or not. Humans don't even bother to keep the original scrolls after the invention of paper.

  14. #29
    Over 3000 post club
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    3,350
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 1,092 Times in 762 Posts

    Mentioned
    35 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    271310
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkins View Post
    Show us any history 2000 ago you can consider to be legitimate...
    There is no difficulty in your believing that Jesus existed, or that he is the Messiah, or God, or whatever you want to believe. Go ahead, be my guest.

    The problem arises when you try to convince others of your ideas. They may expect you to present evidence that you simply don't have. Evidence that doesn't exist.

  15. #30
    Over 4000 post club Caino's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    4,378
    Thanks
    117
    Thanked 328 Times in 297 Posts

    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    187584
    I may be biased because I've always believed in Jesus but not so much Christianity, but one thing that occurs to me is that if the stories are frauds they aren't very good frauds. All things considered, the gospels are just as imperfect and human as one would expect from the age given all the circumstances.

    "Mortal man was never the property of the archdeceivers. Jesus did not die to ransom man from the clutch of the apostate rulers and fallen princes of the spheres. The Father in heaven never conceived of such crass injustice as damning a mortal soul because of the evil doing of his ancestors."UB

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
About us
Since 1997 TheologyOnline (TOL) has been one of the most popular theology forums on the internet. On TOL we encourage spirited conversation about religion, politics, and just about everything else.

follow us