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Thread: Why I Don't Believe in Calvinism or Predestination

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    Because Jeremiah was chosen from the womb to be a prophet to the nations. The answer is in the scripture.
    That doesn't answer my question: "I guess my question to you is how come God told Jeremiah for instance he was chosen from the womb to be a prophet to the nations if He is no respecter of persons? Is there a way to reconcile both of those statements?"

    How come God chose an unproven infant to be his prophet if He is no respecter of persons? Or is the infant unproven to God? Did He design some special instead?

    There is no election without a purpose. God does not elect anyone to salvation that is not connected to the Christ event and the Gospel.
    So then in your interpretation, those people who did not hear of Christ because they lived in 6th century Japan are damned to hell?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    The only one that has been predestinated is Jesus Christ.
    Robert, you really need to grow up. I gave you verses that show that we are predestinated. Why you see Calvinism when you see that term, I don't know. I certainly don't. It has nothing to do with the Calvinistic hijacking of the term, but a sound, biblical teaching on our adoption and inheritance based upon God's foreknowledge.
    2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

    Paul defines the word of truth as the gospel of your salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, Ephesians 1:13 KJV). Now, study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed by rightly dividing it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cons&Spires View Post
    I have a couple small issues with Calvinism, but in the general sense, TULIP is otherwise the Gospel altogether.

    Hate to disappoint
    Show me the gospel of your salvation!
    2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

    Paul defines the word of truth as the gospel of your salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, Ephesians 1:13 KJV). Now, study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed by rightly dividing it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    Jesus makes it so. Faith in Christ and his Gospel makes one a Christian. NOT WORKS.

    "That whosoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life" John 3:16.
    Which gospel would that be as you know there are many gospels in the Bible.
    2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

    Paul defines the word of truth as the gospel of your salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, Ephesians 1:13 KJV). Now, study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed by rightly dividing it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by heir View Post
    Show me the gospel of your salvation!
    Total Depravity
    Unconditional Election (where my small issues are)
    Limited Atonement
    Irresistable Grace
    Perseverance of the Saints

    What's not to understand, really? It's pretty much the gospel_
    I would love for you show otherwise, honestly. I see a lot of flack against Reformed theology, ironically from those divergent from Catholicism altogether. Makes no sense to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cons&Spires View Post
    Total Depravity
    Unconditional Election (where my small issues are)
    Limited Atonement
    Irresistable Grace
    Perseverance of the Saints

    What's not to understand, really? It's the gospel_
    I would love for you show otherwise, honestly. I see a lot of flack against Reformed theology, ironically from those divergent from Catholicism altogether. Makes no sense to me.
    I wasn't asking for TULIP, but the gospel of YOUR salvation. Show me!
    2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

    Paul defines the word of truth as the gospel of your salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, Ephesians 1:13 KJV). Now, study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed by rightly dividing it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by heir View Post
    I wasn't asking for TULIP, but the gospel of YOUR salvation. Show me!
    Besides my moderation of Unconditional Election, my gospel is TULIP.

    I don't know how that was lost in translation..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cons&Spires View Post
    Besides my moderation of Unconditional Election, my gospel is TULIP.

    I don't know how that was lost in translation..
    TULIP didn't/doesn't save you. What is the good news by which you are saved?
    2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

    Paul defines the word of truth as the gospel of your salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, Ephesians 1:13 KJV). Now, study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed by rightly dividing it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    Why I Don't Believe in Calvinism or Predestination
    Breaking news! Who knew?

    Robert in a nutshell:

    I, Robert Pate, believe all Calvinists are lost, hate religion, deny the infallibility and inerrancy of Scripture, deny the Bible is a book to live by, am within my right to question the infallibility of the book of James, Acts, and any other book that disagrees with my views, deny the notion of eternal punishment in Hell in favor of psychopannychia (soul-sleep), deny Adam's sin bears any connection to my sinful nature from birth, deny my faith came by God alone and not by any single thing related to my own abilities to come to said faith. Moreover I refuse to attend any visible vestige of the Lord's Bride for corporate worship, placing myself under its ordained leadership, nor give myself access to the ordinary means of grace by Word and Sacrament.

    AMR
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    Quote Originally Posted by heir View Post
    TULIP didn't/doesn't save you. What is the good news by which you are saved?
    This is ridiculous.

    Do you understand the doctrine of TULIP?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cons&Spires View Post
    Besides my moderation of Unconditional Election, my gospel is TULIP.

    I don't know how that was lost in translation..
    TULIP didn't/doesn't save you. What is the good news by which you are saved?
    2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

    Paul defines the word of truth as the gospel of your salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, Ephesians 1:13 KJV). Now, study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed by rightly dividing it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by heir View Post
    TULIP didn't/doesn't save you. What is the good news by which you are saved?
    TULIP is an explanation of God's relationship to man, and how we are judged.

    You're talking about 'good news' as if salvation comes without anything, including belief. Which is unorthodox, God does not leave that option. Sorry to break it to you.

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    Robert Pate is Outside the Camp

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    Calvinist cannot be corrected by scripture. They have other writings that supports their position that they believe is the final authority.

    I am not a Calvinist because I believe in scripture alone, they don't.

    The Calvinist answer is to discredit the Bible by adding words, deleting words and changing the meaning of words.
    Odd that you lay claim to the purity of the Bible, given your personal views about the bible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate
    Why do the religious always run to the book of James?

    There is no Gospel in the book of James. I suppose it is because James was a Judaizer that had trouble with Paul's Gospel much like Peter, Galatians 2:11,12. The religious have the same problem as Peter and James.

    I am sure that Peter and James eventually came to embrace Paul's Gospel at a later date. The book of James is very Jewish. There is nothing in the book of James about the redemptive work of Christ or the resurrection. It is a very law based book.

    James had faith, but I am not sure what James had faith in, he doesn't say. If it were Christ and his Gospel he doesn't bring that out in his writtings.

    The "Historical Gospel" calls all things into question, even the Bible itself.
    Why should anyone expect anything different, given:
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate
    I am not in a box. I do not belong to a church nor am I affiliated with any sort of religious organization.
    Pate is also double-minded. Here he has no hesitancy to declare who is a Christian and who is not. Yes, even the box of Scripture is too small for Robert for if Scripture disagrees with him, Pate will just wave it off as irrelevant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate
    My posts stand for themselves. They are biblical and truthful.

    I don't consider Calvinist to be Christians. Why don't you get saved and then we can discuss spiritual things if that is what you want to do?

    Untill then you remain a natural man void of the Spirit of Christ.
    But, when he tries his usual schtick at more moderated sites, we get this from Pate:

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate
    I don't know who is a Christian and who isn't.
    In other words, Pate is not above being a liar to suit his purposes.

    Pate's behavior is probably because he is holding a book in his hands that he does not see as Holy Writ and full of inaccuracies and discrepancies.

    See Robert's mentor, Brinsmead, and his latest nonsense here:
    http://theologyonline.com/showthread...=1#post4835494

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate
    The bible is not a perfect book. It was written by men.

    The sole purpose of the bible is to be a witness to the work and person of Jesus Christ. If you use it for any other purpose than that you have misused it.

    It was never intended to be a book to live by.
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate
    No, the bible is not a perfect work. This does not take away from it but rather enhances it. None of the men except for Christ were perfect. What makes you think that imperfect men can write a perfect book.

    The bible does what it was intended to do, it reveals Christ and his gospel.
    Pate confirms these low views of Scripture:
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    I retract nothing.
    Then continues with more non-Scriptural views:

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    ...

    No one deserves to go to hell.

    We are ALL sinners without works. No one can become a sinner by what they do, they are born into sin, Psalm 51:5.

    It is not our fault that we are sinners. If you want to blame someone blame Adam. He is the one that brought sin upon on us, Romans 5:12...
    Then there are some real howlers:
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    The law has been replaced by the Holy Spirit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate
    God has a moral obligation to offer salvation to all because all are sinners without works. It is not my fault that I am a sinner, its Adam's fault. Why should I go to hell for something that Adam brought upon me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    You are assuming that God knows everything that is happening on the earth.

    Truth of the matter is that God is very absent from what is happening on the earth.
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    Does God know who will believe on his Son Jesus Christ?

    I don't think that he does. To give life for the sole purpose of destroying it makes God unjust and unmerciful.
    One of the main reasons Pate does not understand Scripture...he refuses to attend church, even declaring its members as being in a "whore church":
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate
    Organized religion is anti-Gospel, anti-Christ, and is under the law.

    I know I attended a baptist church for years, until I discovered the Gospel.

    There is no Gospel being taught today. It is all about religion, which you love.

    I wouldn't attend an organized church if you paid me.

    Christ church is an invisible, spiritual church that cannot be seen, but can be heard. It is talking to you now.
    Yet, religion is something Pate affirms…

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    Christianity is a faith religion. We are called to believe things that cannot be believed by unbelievers. They are things of the Spirit that unbelievers do not have access to, 1 Corinthians 2:14. We spend a lot of time on the forum trying to convince these people that are void of the Spirit things of the Spirit.
    Given Pate's confusion about the Scriptures, is there any wonder he says:

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    God can limit himself.

    God does not see what is going on, on the earth.

    God sees ALL THINGS in his Son Jesus Christ, Colossians 1:20.

    Nothing will be revealed until Christ returns and then everything will be revealed.
    Finally, since Pate denies imperfect men could write a perfect book, and the book (the Bible) was never intended to be a book to live by, he has little concerns about the consequences of his behavior. Pate has an "out" for everything anyway:

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate
    I have trouble with eternal punishment. I believe that the soul of the person that has rejected Christ will be destroyed in hell, but not eternally punished.

    I am hoping, but don't know for sure, that in the judgment there will be another chance to accept Christ as your savior.

    What ever it is, and whatever God decides, it will be right. He is the just judge of all things.
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    I believe that the soul will be destroyed in hell. I see little to no value in the doctrine of ECT. Why would God make someone suffer in hell for all eternity? The destruction of the soul would be eternal death and would be very painful.
    Then there is Robert's psychopannychia (soul sleep):

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    If a persons spirit is already in heaven then why would there be a resurrection?

    There is a lot of controversy concerning this.

    The way I see it is, the whole person goes into the ground and the whole person is resurrected.

    The Christian does not really die. He falls asleep until the resurrection.
    Then there is this:
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    And you and you alone are responsible for your salvation.
    At least Robert is bold enough to declare in public and unequivocally exactly what the anti-Calvinist really believes...and prays thusly here.

    When a person willfully refuses to submit themselves to the local authority of a church, denies the essentials of the Bible, and lies when it suits him, why would anyone ever consider taking him seriously? Pate knows this, which is why he refuses to stand still long enough to defend his bizarre views. Rather he just runs along and starts yet another thread. A good portion have been deleted, but Robert is not deterred. Sigh.

    AMR
    Last edited by Ask Mr. Religion; March 11th, 2018 at 10:59 PM. Reason: New heterodoxies of Robert Pate added
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    Quote Originally Posted by heir View Post
    TULIP didn't/doesn't save you. What is the good news by which you are saved?
    *crickets*
    2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

    Paul defines the word of truth as the gospel of your salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, Ephesians 1:13 KJV). Now, study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed by rightly dividing it!

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    ^This is a big part of the reason I considered Reformed doctrine in the first place. Everything else seems to be filled with absurdity.

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