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  1. #31
    Over 1500 post club Idolater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aikido7 View Post
    Absolutely. Just like all religions. What Christianity claims and what Jesus actually taught are markedly different.
    It's interesting to read Christ's epistle to the Gentile king (recorded for us in Eusebius). He doesn't mention anything theologically, but He does confirm what the Gospels depict, that He had attracted quite a following in Judea during His earthly ministry. Because He confirmed something that we read in the Gospels, we Christians can imo justifiably read the Gospels knowing that Christ Jesus Himself confirms that they are true. This is analogous to how we can read the whole New Testament with the same certainty, because we read in the Gospels how the Lord gave God's own teaching authority to His Apostles, and it is this authority that authorized the New Testament; it is why we even have the New Testament, the anthology has been handed down to us from the Apostles, through the authentic pastorate that the Apostles themselves established, presumably acting on the command of Jesus in so doing.
    Quote Originally Posted by aikido7 View Post
    Obviously, not literally. It is a faith claim. It is not history.
    But Muslims believe that it is history, just as we Christians believe that Christ's Resurrection is nonfiction historical fact. It happened.
    "Those who believe in Christ" are all the Christians, Catholic or not.

    @Nee_Nihilo

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    Quote Originally Posted by bibleverse2 View Post
    Islam is an anti-Gospel religion because, even though it affirms that Jesus is the Christ (Koran 4:157, Koran 5:17,75), it denies that Jesus...rose physically from the dead on the third day. In order to be saved from hell, people have to believe the Gospel that Jesus...rose physically from the dead on the third day....
    'Comports with 1st Corinthians 15:14 KJV. If Christianity is true, Islam /the Quran cannot be true.
    Quote Originally Posted by bibleverse2 View Post
    One way to help Muslims understand how Jesus Christ can be God....
    The Church spread like wildfire because of the witnesses (in Greek 'witness' is 'martyr') of Christ's Resurrection first and foremost. That was enough to break pagans out of their paganism, and I believe that it's still enough to break Muslims out of their Islam, Jews out of their Judaism, atheists out their atheism, Hindus and Buddhists out of their Hinduism and Buddhism.

    If Christ is really risen, then the rest of the authentic Christian faith is confirmed. Christ is God, yes, along with a whole wonderful bundle of other things, but the leading edge of the Christian weaponry is His Resurrection from the dead on the third day. It pierces hearts.

    There's a church built around His empty tomb in Jerusalem (it was outside Jerusalem when He rose, but Jerusalem's boundaries grew to include it now).
    "Those who believe in Christ" are all the Christians, Catholic or not.

    @Nee_Nihilo

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    Quote Originally Posted by aikido7 View Post
    Absolutely. Just like all religions. What Christianity claims and what Jesus actually taught are markedly different.
    I doubt if you know either one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aikido7 View Post
    In religion, myth is the closest we can come to absolute truth.
    Hardly. We have the eyewitness testimony of the evangelists; the strongest of which are: Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. They were closely examined by the world's foremost authority on evidence in jurisprudence: Dr. Simon Greenleaf, a founding law professor at Harvard University's School of Law. He was a staunch atheist who was challenged to study the gospels as evidence and take apart the Christian 'myth' by doing so. He took on that challenge, but he found not only that the gospels were true but also were proof that Jesus lived, died and rose again and in point-of-fact is indeed: God, in The Flesh. He wrote a great book on the subject, "The Testimony of the Evangelists," a brief synopsis is below. You can download the whole book on a free PDF HERE.

    Testimony of the Evangelists by Simon Greenleaf (1783-1853)

    Greenleaf, one of the principle founders of the Harvard Law School, originally set out to disprove the biblical testimony concerning the resurrection of Jesus Christ. He was certain that a careful examination of the internal witness of the Gospels would dispel all the myths at the heart of Christianity. But this legal scholar came to the conclusion that the witnesses were reliable, and that the resurrection did in fact happen.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    In examining the evidence of the Christian religion, it is essential to the discovery of truth that we bring to the investigation a mind freed, as far as possible, from existing prejudice, and open to conviction. There should be a readiness, on our part, to investigate with candor to follow the truth wherever it may lead us, and to submit, without reserve or objection, to all the teachings of this religion, if it be found to be of divine origin. "There is no other entrance," says Lord Bacon, "to the kingdom of man, which is founded in the sciences, than to the kingdom of heaven, into which no one can enter but in the character of a little child." The docility which true philosophy requires of her disciples is not a spirit of servility, or the surrender of the reason and judgment to whatsoever the teacher may inculcate; but it is a mind free from all pride of opinion, not hostile to the truth sought for, willing to pursue the inquiry, and impartiality to weigh the arguments and evidence, and to acquiesce in the judgment of right reason. The investigation, moreover, should be pursued with the serious earnestness which becomes the greatness of the subject--a subject fraught with such momentous consequences to man. It should be pursued as in the presence of God, and under the solemn sanctions created by a lively sense of his omniscience, and of our accountability to him for the right use of the faculties which he has bestowed.

    In requiring this candor and simplicity of mind in those who would investigate the truth of our religion, Christianity demands nothing more than is readily conceded to every branch of human science. All these have their data, and their axioms; and Christianity, too, has her first principles, the admission of which is essential to any real progress in knowledge. "Christianity," says Bishop Wilson, "inscribes on the portal of her dominion 'Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, shall in nowise enter therein.' Christianity does not profess to convince the perverse and headstrong, to bring irresistible evidence to the daring and profane, to vanquish the proud scorner, and afford evidences from which the careless and perverse cannot possibly escape. This might go to destroy man's responsibility. All that Christianity professes, is to propose such evidences as may satisfy the meek, the tractable, the candid, the serious inquirer."

    Read the entire summary: HERE.
    Last edited by Aimiel; March 2nd, 2019 at 07:52 PM. Reason: ... to shorten the post
    "That man of sin must first be revealed." -- Jesus

    If you haven't tried: you've already failed. -- Aimiel

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    Wow. Thats a post right there

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    Quote Originally Posted by chair View Post
    Do you have a source for this?
    Sure.

    Any Arabic lexicon proves this point.

    The term 'Muhammad' is a passive participle. i.e. it combines the functions of both adjective and verb. It was NEVER a proper name as used in the Koran.

    Its four usages in the Koran all have the Biblical Jesus as the referent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TrumpTrainCA View Post
    I doubt if you know either one.
    Go Trump!!!


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    Quote Originally Posted by TrumpTrainCA View Post
    Wow. Thats a post right there
    If anyone who has any sense yet pretends to be atheist would read it: they just might change their mind.
    "That man of sin must first be revealed." -- Jesus

    If you haven't tried: you've already failed. -- Aimiel

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimiel View Post
    Hardly. We have the eyewitness testimony of the evangelists; the strongest of which are: Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.
    I gave you a neg and here is why. Anyone who uses the forum to leave a several page long blog is abusing the forum. No one is going to read for a half hour your blog when they are here to communicate!
    So, what?

    believe it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ktoyou View Post
    I gave you a neg and here is why. Anyone who uses the forum to leave a several page long blog is abusing the forum. No one is going to read for a half hour your blog when they are here to communicate!
    Sorry you feel that way. I find Dr. Greenleaf's writing inspired and stimulating. It's unique and un-equaled as far as I'm concerned. The type of thinking and the investigation that he put into seeking Truth is exhilarating and I find that most people won't click on a link but might be inclined to gloss over and maybe even read the synopsis of a near one thousand page book which delved into the evidence we have of the single most important Person in history: Jesus. He said that we have more proof of Jesus' life, death and resurrection than we have of any single person in antiquity, simply from the evidence found in the New Testament. Coming from someone with the authority he has regarding court evidence: that says a lot.
    "That man of sin must first be revealed." -- Jesus

    If you haven't tried: you've already failed. -- Aimiel

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    Then you blog it on your own site or here where one can have a blog and allude people to it. Posting all those pages is a and you know well enough it is.
    So, what?

    believe it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Apple7 View Post
    Sure.

    Any Arabic lexicon proves this point.

    The term 'Muhammad' is a passive participle. i.e. it combines the functions of both adjective and verb. It was NEVER a proper name as used in the Koran.

    Its four usages in the Koran all have the Biblical Jesus as the referent.
    Uh huh.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Apple7 View Post
    What islam claims, and what the Koran says, are two entirely different things.
    Same as our faith. Christianity claims to follow Jesus but yet the most cursory look reveals believers to describesss war, genocide, capital punishment, as redemptive.

    No one named 'Muhammad' had anything at all to do with the Koran, according to the Koran.
    Muslims believe that the Quran was orally revealed by God to the final Prophet, Muhammad, through the archangel Gabriel (Jibril), incrementally over a period of about 25 years.

    ]No angel Gabriel had anything to do with inspiring someone named 'Muhammad' according to the Koran.

    Be wary of Islamic myth, lest you fall into its false narrative...
    The Christian Bible’s quotes from Jesus never say he thought of himself as God, Son of God, Messiah or virgin-born.

  18. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by aikido7 View Post
    Same as our faith. Christianity claims to follow Jesus but yet the most cursory look reveals believers to describesss war, genocide, capital punishment, as redemptive.
    Christianity more than any other thing claims that Jesus of Nazareth is risen from the dead.
    Quote Originally Posted by aikido7 View Post
    Muslims believe that the Quran was orally revealed by God to the final Prophet, Muhammad, through the archangel Gabriel (Jibril), incrementally over a period of about 25 years.
    Right, and it is this alleged "archangel Gabriel" who said that Christ did not rise from the dead. It's why some Christians believe that the actual "archangel" was somebody else. Like Lucifer.
    Quote Originally Posted by aikido7 View Post
    The Christian Bible’s quotes from Jesus never say he thought of himself as God, Son of God, Messiah or virgin-born.
    It never quotes Him as saying that He rose from the dead either though, so . . . .
    "Those who believe in Christ" are all the Christians, Catholic or not.

    @Nee_Nihilo

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    Quote Originally Posted by aikido7 View Post


    Muslims believe that the Quran was orally revealed by God to the final Prophet, Muhammad, through the archangel Gabriel (Jibril), incrementally over a period of about 25 years.

    What they believe is not supported by their koran.

    Simple fact.

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