User Tag List

Page 1 of 14 123411 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 200

Thread: Ephesians 1:4, 5, In the Light of the Historical Gospel of Jesus Christ

  1. #1
    Silver Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Eau Claire, WI
    Posts
    14,176
    Thanks
    184
    Thanked 1,777 Times in 1,473 Posts

    Mentioned
    38 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    354750

    Ephesians 1:4, 5, In the Light of the Historical Gospel of Jesus Christ

    Ephesians 1:4, 5. "According as he has chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love. Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will."

    Calvinst frequently quote this scripture to try and prove predestination, but what does it really mean according to the Gospel?

    "According as he has chosen us in him before the foundation of the world".

    Calvinist teach that God chooses "Some certain persons" to be saved from the foundation of the world. Is that what this scripture is saying" No, far from it.

    The only one that was chosen before the foundation of the world was Jesus Christ. "Who verily was fordained before the foundation of the world" 1 Peter 1:20. Peter was talking about Jesus. God knew that Adam and his descendants would sin. He also knew that they would need a savior. God looked into the future because he knew that Jesus would be... "The Lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world" Revelation 13:8.

    Jesus Christ is God's new Adam and our new humanity. God saw all of humanity in his Son Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:17, this is why the scripture says, "That we should be holy and without blame before him in love" The only way that you can be holy and without blame is to be "In Christ". God saw us "In Christ" before the foundation of the world. NO ONE HAS BEEN PREDESTINATED, that is false doctrine.

    We (the whole world) was predestinated to be "In Christ" before the foundation of the world. Jesus reconciled the whole world to God by his doing and his dying, 2 Corinthians 5:19, not "Some certain persons". God now sees ALL THINGS in his Son Jesus Christ, Colossians 1:20. This is why Paul said, "For you are dead and your life is hid with God in Christ" Colossians 3:3. As far as God is concerned sin, death and the devil have been destroyed, Colossians 2:15. God is at peace with the world because of Jesus Christ, Colossians 1:20.

    This does not mean that everyone is saved. What it means is that salvation has been provided for all by the doing and the dying of Jesus so that now, "Whosoever that shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.

  2. #2
    Silver Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Eau Claire, WI
    Posts
    14,176
    Thanks
    184
    Thanked 1,777 Times in 1,473 Posts

    Mentioned
    38 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    354750
    Jesus Christ is God's new humanity, 2 Corinthians 5:17.

    The scripture says..."He has chosen us IN HIM before the foundation of the world" Ephesians 1:4.

    God saw all of humanity in his Son Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is God's new Adam and humanities new representative.

    "And has raised us up together and has made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus" Ephesians 2:6.

    Many do not understand Ephesians 1:3-6, because they do not understand the Gospel. The Gospel is about how God has reconciled the whole world unto himself by Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

    God does NOT predestinate individuals. God deals with all of humanity in by and through his Son Jesus Christ.

  3. #3
    TOL Legend
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    15,664
    Thanks
    370
    Thanked 3,870 Times in 2,893 Posts

    Blog Entries
    1
    Mentioned
    39 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    1249373
    My own understanding of this Mystery is that God predestinated to do some things for Himself IN His Son IN a new creature.

    Those IN Adam who choose to believe ON His Son are THEN placed IN His Son through the faith of the operation of God...

    Being THEN made, by this placing INTO His Son, in the moment they believe; partakers WITH Him of what God has predestinated to do IN His Son.

    First believe; choose to trust Christ, and God THEN chooses you IN His Son - in the moment you believe ON His Son, God THEN makes you a partaker of what He has chosen to do for Himself IN His Son WITH Him.

    Neither Calvinist, not Arminian - in that the choosing is not unilateral, rather; bilateral.

  4. #4
    Silver Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Eau Claire, WI
    Posts
    14,176
    Thanks
    184
    Thanked 1,777 Times in 1,473 Posts

    Mentioned
    38 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    354750
    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    My own understanding of this Mystery is that God predestinated to do some things for Himself IN His Son IN a new creature.

    Those IN Adam who choose to believe ON His Son are THEN placed IN His Son through the faith of the operation of God...

    Being THEN made, by this placing INTO His Son, in the moment they believe; partakers WITH Him of what God has predestinated to do IN His Son.

    First believe; choose to trust Christ, and God THEN chooses you IN His Son - in the moment you believe ON His Son, God THEN makes you a partaker of what He has chosen to do for Himself IN His Son WITH Him.

    Neither Calvinist, not Arminian - in that the choosing is not unilateral, rather; bilateral.

    God does NOTHING outside of Jesus Christ.

    "He (Jesus) is before ALL THINGS, and by him ALL THINGS consist" Colossians 1:17.

    There is no individual predestination of individuals because God is no respecter of persons, Acts 10:34. God does everything in by and through Jesus Christ.

    Jesus is the savior and reconciler of the whole world, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. We have been reconciled unto to God, Not predestinated unto God.

    God now sees ALL THINGS in Jesus Christ. God is now at peace with the world because of the doing and the dying of Jesus, Colossians 1:20.

    However, when Jesus returns there will be a judgment to see who is in Christ and who is in their sins, 2 Peter 3:7.

  5. #5
    TOL Legend beloved57's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    ATL
    Posts
    19,450
    Thanks
    785
    Thanked 3,040 Times in 2,939 Posts

    Blog Entries
    19
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    47794
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    Ephesians 1:4, 5. "According as he has chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love. Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will."

    Calvinst frequently quote this scripture to try and prove predestination, but what does it really mean according to the Gospel?

    "According as he has chosen us in him before the foundation of the world".

    Calvinist teach that God chooses "Some certain persons" to be saved from the foundation of the world. Is that what this scripture is saying" No, far from it.

    The only one that was chosen before the foundation of the world was Jesus Christ. "Who verily was fordained before the foundation of the world" 1 Peter 1:20. Peter was talking about Jesus. God knew that Adam and his descendants would sin. He also knew that they would need a savior. God looked into the future because he knew that Jesus would be... "The Lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world" Revelation 13:8.

    Jesus Christ is God's new Adam and our new humanity. God saw all of humanity in his Son Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:17, this is why the scripture says, "That we should be holy and without blame before him in love" The only way that you can be holy and without blame is to be "In Christ". God saw us "In Christ" before the foundation of the world. NO ONE HAS BEEN PREDESTINATED, that is false doctrine.

    We (the whole world) was predestinated to be "In Christ" before the foundation of the world. Jesus reconciled the whole world to God by his doing and his dying, 2 Corinthians 5:19, not "Some certain persons". God now sees ALL THINGS in his Son Jesus Christ, Colossians 1:20. This is why Paul said, "For you are dead and your life is hid with God in Christ" Colossians 3:3. As far as God is concerned sin, death and the devil have been destroyed, Colossians 2:15. God is at peace with the world because of Jesus Christ, Colossians 1:20.

    This does not mean that everyone is saved. What it means is that salvation has been provided for all by the doing and the dying of Jesus so that now, "Whosoever that shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.
    You speak evil and against predestination all the time here on this forum !
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

  6. #6
    Silver Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Eau Claire, WI
    Posts
    14,176
    Thanks
    184
    Thanked 1,777 Times in 1,473 Posts

    Mentioned
    38 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    354750
    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    You speak evil and against predestination all the time here on this forum !

    Its a false doctrine.

    You need to repent from it.

    If it were true the Bible would be full of it. There is NOTHING.

  7. #7
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    San Luis Potosi,Mexico
    Posts
    13,735
    Thanks
    1,280
    Thanked 8,733 Times in 5,729 Posts

    Mentioned
    97 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    2147838
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    There is no individual predestination of individuals because God is no respecter of persons, Acts 10:34. God does everything in by and through Jesus Christ.
    These verses are speaking about 'individual" believers being predestined to

    "And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren" (Ro.8:28-29).

    The key to the teaching of this passage depends on an understanding of the meaning of the Greek word translated "for" found at the beginning of verse twenty-nine. The word is a conjunction which ties the two verses together, and the word means "the reason why anything is said to be or be done...it is added to a speaker's words to show what ground he gives for his opinion" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).

    At Romans 8:29 Paul tells us why he says that "all things work together for good" for the saved, those he describes as the called:

    "And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren" (Ro.8:28-29).

    The reason why "all things work together for good" in regard to the saved is because the LORD predetermined that the believers will be conformed to the image of the Son. That will happen when the Lord descends from heaven and the saved will put on bodies just like his glorious body:

    "But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body" (Phil.3:20-21).

  8. #8
    TOL Legend beloved57's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    ATL
    Posts
    19,450
    Thanks
    785
    Thanked 3,040 Times in 2,939 Posts

    Blog Entries
    19
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    47794
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    Its a false doctrine.

    You need to repent from it.

    If it were true the Bible would be full of it. There is NOTHING.
    You have the audacity to challenge God's Predestination of individuals to Salvation when the Doctrine is right in the scripture Eph 1:4-6

    4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

    5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

    6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

    The Adoption of Childen is Salvation !
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

  9. #9
    TOL Legend beloved57's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    ATL
    Posts
    19,450
    Thanks
    785
    Thanked 3,040 Times in 2,939 Posts

    Blog Entries
    19
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    47794
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    These verses are speaking about 'individual" believers being predestined to
    "And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren" (Ro.8:28-29).
    The key to the teaching of this passage depends on an understanding of the meaning of the Greek word translated "for" found at the beginning of verse twenty-nine. The word is a conjunction which ties the two verses together, and the word means "the reason why anything is said to be or be done...it is added to a speaker's words to show what ground he gives for his opinion" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).

    At Romans 8:29 Paul tells us why he says that "all things work together for good" for the saved, those he describes as the called:

    "And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren" (Ro.8:28-29).

    The reason why "all things work together for good" in regard to the saved is because the LORD predetermined that the believers will be conformed to the image of the Son. That will happen when the Lord descends from heaven and the saved will put on bodies just like his glorious body:
    "But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body" (Phil.3:20-21).
    They were predetermined to become believers ! They werent believers prior to being called by the Gospel !

    They were called because they had been predestinated Rom 8:30

    30 Moreover whom he did predestinate1, them he also called 2: and whom he called, them he also justified: and who m he justified, them he also glorified.
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

  10. #10
    TOL Legend
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    15,664
    Thanks
    370
    Thanked 3,870 Times in 2,893 Posts

    Blog Entries
    1
    Mentioned
    39 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    1249373
    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    You have the audacity to challenge God's Predestination of individuals to Salvation when the Doctrine is right in the scripture Eph 1:4-6

    4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

    5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

    6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

    The Adoption of Childen is Salvation !
    More of your mess, B57.

    He predestinated that He would choose you IN Him, and seal you IN Him "after that ye believed" Eph. 1:13.

  11. #11
    TOL Legend
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    15,664
    Thanks
    370
    Thanked 3,870 Times in 2,893 Posts

    Blog Entries
    1
    Mentioned
    39 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    1249373
    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    They were predetermined to become believers ! They werent believers prior to being called by the Gospel !

    They were called because they had been predestinated Rom 8:30

    30 Moreover whom he did predestinate1, them he also called 2: and whom he called, them he also justified: and who m he justified, them he also glorified.
    Wrong again!

    He predestinated He would conform those who believe... INTO the image of His Son.

  12. #12
    TOL Legend beloved57's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    ATL
    Posts
    19,450
    Thanks
    785
    Thanked 3,040 Times in 2,939 Posts

    Blog Entries
    19
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    47794
    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    Wrong again!

    He predestinated He would conform those who believe... INTO the image of His Son.
    That's not what scriptures state! They were predestinated then called Rom 8:30 !
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

  13. #13
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    San Luis Potosi,Mexico
    Posts
    13,735
    Thanks
    1,280
    Thanked 8,733 Times in 5,729 Posts

    Mentioned
    97 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    2147838
    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    They were predetermined to become believers ! They werent believers prior to being called by the Gospel !
    Of course you just IGNORED the actual meaning of what Paul wrote at Romans 8:28-29.

    Now let look at this verse:

    "Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified" (Ro.8:30).

    As I proved, the ones who He did predestinate are the saved. And the saved were called and justified and glorified.

  14. #14
    TOL Legend beloved57's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    ATL
    Posts
    19,450
    Thanks
    785
    Thanked 3,040 Times in 2,939 Posts

    Blog Entries
    19
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    47794
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Of course you just IGNORED the actual meaning of what Paul wrote at Romans 8:28-29.

    Now let look at this verse:

    "Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified" (Ro.8:30).

    As I proved, the ones who He did predestinate are the saved. And the saved were called and justified and glorified.
    They were predestinated then called by the Gospel, so they were predestinated before becoming believers! They were not believers before they were called by the Gospel!
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

  15. #15
    Silver Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Eau Claire, WI
    Posts
    14,176
    Thanks
    184
    Thanked 1,777 Times in 1,473 Posts

    Mentioned
    38 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    354750
    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    You have the audacity to challenge God's Predestination of individuals to Salvation when the Doctrine is right in the scripture Eph 1:4-6

    4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

    5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

    6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

    The Adoption of Childen is Salvation !

    Predestination is anti-Gospel and anti-Christ.

    God chose all of humanity in His Son Jesus Christ, Ephesians 1:4.

    How else are you going to be holy and without blame before him in love? You are a sinner.

    "If any man be in Christ he is a new creation" 2 Corinthians 5:17.

    God sees ALL THINGS in His Son Jesus Christ. Colossians 1:20.

    Jesus Christ as God's new humanity has reconciled the whole world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:19.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
About us
Since 1997 TheologyOnline (TOL) has been one of the most popular theology forums on the internet. On TOL we encourage spirited conversation about religion, politics, and just about everything else.

follow us