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Thread: Real Science Radio's List of Problems with Solar System Formation

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    Quote Originally Posted by 6days View Post
    Of course not a hypotheses. It's a belief based on evidence. It's like our belief that our heart will take the next beat.*


    Apologies that you didn't understand. I said no such thing.*


    "So how did carbon monoxide form on Pluto? Walter T. Brown of the*Center for Scientific Creation*gave an answer today. According to theHydroplate Theory, all trans-Neptunian objects, like all asteroids, comets, and meteoroids, formed from water, rock and mud from earth. A breakout of a subcrustal ocean about fifty miles below ground threw out vast amounts of this material – perhaps as much as four percent of the mass of the earth. The mud and rock included uprooted trees and shrubs from the forests of the early earth.

    "Pluto and its largest moon Charon formed when a swarm of water, rock and mud*accreted*to form these two objects. All such accretions released kinetic energy as heat. The heat on Pluto (and on Charon) eventually caused “slushy geysers” to erupt to the surface. Some of these geysers produced the 3500-meter (11,000-foot) mountains at Pluto’s equator.

    "But the heat, says Brown,*also*burned the uprooted trees, shrubs, and other vegetable matter that accreted with the other matter (water, rock and mud) to form Pluto. And of course, that burning needed oxygen. Oxygen came from one or both of two sources. Either it escaped from earth with the solids and liquids, or formed when water vapor dissociated in the sunlight of the inner solar system. But burning in a confined space yielded carbon monoxide, not carbon dioxide.

    "When that gas broke out onto the surface (on Tombaugh Regio), it condensed, then fell as rain into a basin in the heart shape. Then it froze. The published photo shows contours of ever-increasing amounts of carbon monoxide as one approaches the center of the lake. One would expect precisely that when looking down on a lake; the contours in fact show its depth.

    "As of the time of posting, the*New Horizonscontrol and investigation teams have*not*tried to explain the carbon monoxide. They merely describe it. How they will try to explain it, the world must wait and see."

    http://www.examiner.com/article/carb...oxide-on-pluto
    Imagine, scientists do not have an explanation for something they did not expect. Quelle surprise.

    Instead we are to take the theory of the guy who does not have the intellectual courage to publish in the scientific literature. Well, that makes no sense.


    I am still missing the method by which Brown's theory gets rid of all the heat caused by the H-bomb equivalents he needs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 6days View Post
    According to the Hydroplate Theory, all trans-Neptunian objects, like all asteroids, comets, and meteoroids, formed from water, rock and mud from earth. A breakout of a subcrustal ocean about fifty miles below ground threw out vast amounts of this material – perhaps as much as four percent of the mass of the earth.
    Are you kidding me?

    Is Walt Brown actually saying that Pluto, its 5 moons, all of the Kuiper Belt and all of the Oort Cloud material is actually ejected material from the Earth's crust?

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    Quote Originally Posted by User Name View Post
    Are you kidding me?

    Is Walt Brown actually saying that Pluto, its 5 moons, all of the Kuiper Belt and all of the Oort Cloud material is actually ejected material from the Earth's crust?
    This.....
    So how did carbon monoxide form on Pluto? Walter T. Brown of the*Center for Scientific Creation*gave an answer today. According to theHydroplate Theory, all trans-Neptunian objects, like all asteroids, comets, and meteoroids, formed from water, rock and mud from earth. A breakout of a subcrustal ocean about fifty miles below ground threw out vast amounts of this material – perhaps as much as four percent of the mass of the earth. The mud and rock included uprooted trees and shrubs from the forests of the early earth.

    "Pluto and its largest moon Charon formed when a swarm of water, rock and mud*accreted*to form these two objects. All such accretions released kinetic energy as heat. The heat on Pluto (and on Charon) eventually caused “slushy geysers” to erupt to the surface. Some of these geysers produced the 3500-meter (11,000-foot) mountains at Pluto’s equator.

    "But the heat, says Brown,*also*burned the uprooted trees, shrubs, and other vegetable matter that accreted with the other matter (water, rock and mud) to form Pluto. And of course, that burning needed oxygen. Oxygen came from one or both of two sources. Either it escaped from earth with the solids and liquids, or formed when water vapor dissociated in the sunlight of the inner solar system. But burning in a confined space yielded carbon monoxide, not carbon dioxide.

    "When that gas broke out onto the surface (on Tombaugh Regio), it condensed, then fell as rain into a basin in the heart shape. Then it froze. The published photo shows contours of ever-increasing amounts of carbon monoxide as one approaches the center of the lake. One would expect precisely that when looking down on a lake; the contours in fact show its depth.

    "As of the time of posting, the*New Horizonscontrol and investigation teams have*not*tried to explain the carbon monoxide. They merely describe it. How they will try to explain it, the world must wait and see."

    http://www.examiner.com/article/carb...oxide-on-pluto
    Without Genesis, absolutely nothing makes sense in all of Scripture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 6days View Post
    According to the Hydroplate Theory, all trans-Neptunian objects, like all asteroids, comets, and meteoroids, formed from water, rock and mud from earth. A breakout of a subcrustal ocean about fifty miles below ground threw out vast amounts of this material – perhaps as much as four percent of the mass of the earth.
    Is the good doctor aware that of the 11 comets for which measurements have been made, it is only the Jupiter-family Comet 103P/Hartley 2 that was found to match the composition of Earth’s water deuterium/hydrogen ratio? Therefore, the other comets cannot be of terrestrial origin (as if that were even possible for other obvious reasons).

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    Quote Originally Posted by User Name
    Quote Originally Posted by 6days
    According to the Hydroplate Theory, all trans-Neptunian objects, like all asteroids, comets, and meteoroids, formed from water, rock and mud from earth. A breakout of a subcrustal ocean about fifty miles below ground threw out vast amounts of this material – perhaps as much as four percent of the mass of the earth.
    Is the good doctor aware that of the 11 comets for which measurements have been made, it is only the Jupiter-family Comet 103P/Hartley 2 that was found to match the composition of Earth’s water deuterium/hydrogen ratio? Therefore, the other comets cannot be of terrestrial origin
    What is funny is that evolutionists often argue from both sides of their mouth on the issue. We often see arguments that the deuterium/hydrogen ratio of comets is similar to water on earth. They then use that to say comets supplied the water to Earth's oceans. That is obviously false since God's Word tells us that earth initially was all water. We don't know if Walt Browns theory is correct, but it is consistent with the carbon monoxide on Pluto. And we know that the secular theories of Big Bang and the Nebula Hypothesis can't be believed, without calling God a liar.
    Without Genesis, absolutely nothing makes sense in all of Scripture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 6days View Post
    We don't know if Walt Browns theory is correct,
    Wrong. Rational minds know that Dr. Brown's theory is incorrect.

    How does he deal with the heat from his H-bomb equivalents?

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    Quote Originally Posted by way 2 go View Post
    Hmmm. It is addressed by relying on a paper from the magazine called "Infinite Energy" from an independent "scientist" who also published in "American Angtigravity".

    The video also has Bremsstrahlung radiation (electromagnetic radiation) ejecting neutrons from atoms, when they are not affected by electromagnetism (you need the nuclear forces, which EM radiation can't do).

    It is crank science bolstered by reliance on fictional papers from cranks.

    Consider the problem of the heat thoroughly unsolved.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gcthomas View Post
    Hmmm. It is addressed by relying on a paper from the magazine called "Infinite Energy" from an independent "scientist" who also published in "American Angtigravity".

    The video also has Bremsstrahlung radiation (electromagnetic radiation) ejecting neutrons from atoms, when they are not affected by electromagnetism (you need the nuclear forces, which EM radiation can't do).

    It is crank science bolstered by reliance on fictional papers from cranks.

    Consider the problem of the heat thoroughly unsolved.
    are you saying
    a z-pinch creates massive amounts of heat and
    does not create new elements

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    Quote Originally Posted by way 2 go View Post
    are you saying
    a z-pinch creates massive amounts of heat and
    does not create new elements
    Of course not. I said that that the proposed mechanism for restricting the amount of heat generation is crank science.

    (incidentally, the z-pinch is a technique that is specifically for high vacuum toroidal devices with pulsed supply of electricity from capacitor banks and extremely strongly curved magnetic fields with rotational symmetry. I have yet to a remotely plausible mechanism for generation of this in the Earth.)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
    The driving forces behind geological reworking require proximity to a large neighboring body or deformation from the spherical for the body that is active.

    Pluto is a long way from anything that could generate geological processes on it.

    However, if it formed recently — as the evidence indicates — the "surprises" facing the evolutionists all but disappear.
    "From what we know of the heat flow coming from interior, there's no reason that this stuff cannot be going on today," said New Horizons' Bill McKinnon (source).

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    Quote Originally Posted by User Name View Post
    Actually I was going somewhere with that and it has everything to do with the topic. I'll go ahead and answer the question myself.

    Mercury is covered with craters for a number of reasons, primarily: 1) Mercury's surface is solid rock; 2) It has been geologically inactive for aeons, hence no volcanoes or geysers to spew out material that would fill in craters; 3) It has almost no atmosphere, hence no weathering of the rocky craters (although the surface is subjected to space weathering).

    Pluto, by contrast, is not solid rock. It is covered in a layer which is primarily composed of ice and includes frozen nitrogen and methane. Strong evidence of geologic activity exists, including cryovolcanoes that would help to fill in and cover craters on the planet's surface. Its atmosphere is slight, but it does have one. These facts explain why Pluto is not covered with craters, and except for the atmosphere, they also apply to Charon, the largest of Pluto's moons. So the fact that Pluto and Charon are not covered in craters is not evidence of young age.
    If the surface is made of ice, is it possible that asteroids hitting would melt the ice and then it just levels itself out before freezing over again?

    Just wondering.
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    Here in an Arxiv.org paper discussing predictions for the New Horizons pass, made in January.

    Possible scenarios that the New Horizons spacecraft may find in its close encounter with Pluto

    Pluto and its moon Charon have trapped rotation, i.e., both bodies show each other the same hemisphere. On the other hand the orbit of Charon is circular (and therefore so is Pluto’s orbit around their common centre of mass) (Buie et al., 2012). For these two conditions it is not expected that there is an exchange of energy, via tides, between the two bodies. However, solar gravity force modifies this view since Charon may be in conjunction, in opposition, square and all intermediate positions with respect the Sun, thus both bodies will exert on Pluto a continu ous changing tidal force that implies a continuous, and periodic, deformation of Pluto’s body (and of course Charon’s body). This continuous exchange of energy in tidal forces produces heat due to dissipation of tidal energy. The heat flow may manifest its elf in cryo -*‐ volcanic activity on the surfaces of both bodies, or in the presence of a molten layer in their interior, or both


    http://arxiv.org/abs/1505.07311

    Tidal heating by the Sun is possible to to interactions with Charon's gravity.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desert Reign View Post
    If the surface is made of ice, is it possible that asteroids hitting would melt the ice and then it just levels itself out before freezing over again?

    Just wondering.
    Meteor impacts, by themselves, are not likely to generate much heat on Pluto's surface. On the surface of Pluto the ice is frozen nitrogen, carbon monoxide and methane. Nitrogen may even be liquid below the surface, where it is not as cold. Water ice is thought to exist under the surface, but unlike water ice, frozen nitrogen is able to flow (albeit slowly):



    These flows are able to fill in and cover craters on the surface:


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    There could also be a significant amount of radioactive isotopes with Pluto's core, providing extra heat. Also, we don't really know how ice behaves at such low temperatures, so there could be a simple materials answer to the surface reworking.
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