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Thread: Do you have to believe in the Trinity to be a Christian?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Emanuel View Post
    I don't know what you mean by "the Father is in Spirit."

    As for the Son, we talk about the hypostatic union between His divine essence or nature, and His human nature.

    All Is are dotted and all Ts are crossed. The doctrine has no hole's. Its air tight.

    Daniel
    You don't know what I mean because you do not read your own NT. Read John 4:24. Jesus himself said that God is a Spirit. Spirits are incorporeal. If Jesus is in flesh, they can't be the same. So the Trinity is more than one and, as the name says, three.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grosnick Marowbe View Post
    Who gave you such a BIG word as, "Ostracize?" Seems too big a word
    coming from someone who can barely speak English?
    Why the cruelty, Grosnick?

    What sort of family did you grow up in?

    In my view, you seem unacquainted with respect, fairness and caring.
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    (STILL trying to set up conservatives and fundamentalists on blind dates with Jesus...)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post
    Given that God is not a liar and has clearly laid out the fact of the Triune Godhead, and that it is God that is doing the saving of His children, it is impossible for there to be a person so regenerated by God that denies the Trinity. This would in effect be a house divided.

    All Christians are Trinitarians.
    All non-Trinitarians are not Christians.

    AMR
    Given that the Church of Rome did not lay out the doctrine of the Triune Godhead until the Council of Constantinople in 360 CE, you don't know what you are talking about.
    Learn to read what is written.

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    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Emanuel View Post
    Plenty if your accepting the New Testament. The scriptural support for the Trinity in the Old Testament is less clear of course, which is only natural, since the Trinity had not yet become a man.
    Jehovah God is the Trinity. The Trinity is Jehovah God. Numbers 6:24-26 KJV


    Daniel
    You say the same thing all trinity believers say. God is trinity because my pastor says so!

    But the truth is, God is one because the bible says so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Masada View Post
    You don't know what I mean because you do not read your own NT. Read John 4:24. Jesus himself said that God is a Spirit. Spirits are incorporeal. If Jesus is in flesh, they can't be the same. So the Trinity is more than one and, as the name says, three.
    You as a Jew are not required to believe in the New Testament. However, we who call Christ the messiah have this:

    "And the Word became flesh and lived among us, and we have seen his glory, the glory as of a father’s only son, full of grace and truth."

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    Over 1500 post club Daniel1611's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iamaberean View Post
    You say the same thing all trinity believers say. God is trinity because my pastor says so!

    But the truth is, God is one because the bible says so.
    I believe in the Trinity because it is in the Bible. Genesis 1. 1 John 5:7. 2 Timothy 3:16. I could go on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    The real question is not whether the Church of Rome will accept a person as a "Christian" but what does the Bible state as being necessary for salvation.
    We know very well that the Bible does not say such thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel1611 View Post
    I believe in the Trinity because it is in the Bible. Genesis 1. 1 John 5:7. 2 Timothy 3:16. I could go on.
    You desperately need a study bible.

    NIV Study Bible
    Footnotes:
    a.
    1 John 5:8 Late manuscripts of the Vulgate testify in heaven: the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one. And there are three that testify on earth: the (not found in any Greek manuscript before the fourteenth century)

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    Quote Originally Posted by CherubRam View Post
    You desperately need a study bible.

    NIV Study Bible
    Footnotes:
    a.
    1 John 5:8 Late manuscripts of the Vulgate testify in heaven: the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one. And there are three that testify on earth: the (not found in any Greek manuscript before the fourteenth century)
    So the Bible is not reliable? No need for you to answer. I know your stance on anything that is part of orthodox Christianity. I'm not interested in Judaism or Judaizers like westcott and hort or their jewish masters.

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    By the way, Cherubram, I'm not fooled by your lies. Tertullian referenced 1 John 5:7 as early as 200 AD.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel1611 View Post
    I believe in the Trinity because it is in the Bible. Genesis 1. 1 John 5:7. 2 Timothy 3:16. I could go on.
    There aren't three hypostases in those verses... or any others.

    Wouldn't it be more prudent to admit the inference, deduction, and compilation of terms for the classic Trinity as an implicit formulaic rather than an explicit declaration of scripture?

    Arians, Sabellians, Unitarians, Binitarians, and all the rest have to admit the same thing.
    Ecclesia reformata et semper reformanda secundum verbum Dei
    “The Church reformed and always reforming, according to the Word of God.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel1611 View Post
    So the Bible is not reliable? No need for you to answer. I know your stance on anything that is part of orthodox Christianity. I'm not interested in Judaism or Judaizers like westcott and hort or their jewish masters.
    Wouldn't you say the consideration of the Comma Johanneum as potentially spurious is appropriate lower textual criticism? It only appears in three codices and in (scribal) marginal notes of four others.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel1611 View Post
    By the way, Cherubram, I'm not fooled by your lies. Tertullian referenced 1 John 5:7 as early as 200 AD.
    Tertullian was also a Subordinationist (Semi-Arian), and fell into Montanism and was considered by many as anathema.
    Ecclesia reformata et semper reformanda secundum verbum Dei
    “The Church reformed and always reforming, according to the Word of God.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post
    Given that God is not a liar and has clearly laid out the fact of the Triune Godhead, and that it is God that is doing the saving of His children, it is impossible for there to be a person so regenerated by God that denies the Trinity. This would in effect be a house divided.

    All Christians are Trinitarians.
    All non-Trinitarians are not Christians.

    AMR
    Chapter and verse?
    "And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers." Acts 2:42

    "Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind" Philippians 2:2

    Pro scripture = Protestant

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    Quote Originally Posted by PneumaPsucheSoma View Post
    Wouldn't you say the consideration of the Comma Johanneum as potentially spurious is appropriate lower textual criticism? It only appears in three codices and in (scribal) marginal notes of four others.



    Tertullian was also a Subordinationist (Semi-Arian), and fell into Montanism and was considered by many as anathema.
    There are still references to the "three are one" as early as the second century. Tertullian isn't the only one. If there are references to it, it is not a new doctrine like cherubram implies that it is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel1611 View Post
    There are still references to the "three are one" as early as the second century. Tertullian isn't the only one. If there are references to it, it is not a new doctrine like cherubram implies that it is.
    The earliest and most common "three are one" reference would be "God, His Word, and His Wisdom" per Hippolytus and several others.

    The real question is... Three "what"? And so few professing Trinitarians have ANY idea of the minutiae of their own purported doctrine, it's no wonder so many are functional Tritheists and Modalists.

    No, it's not a new doctrine. But the Comma Johanneum is highly in question as spurious. And it's not really necessary as a proof-text.

    I wouldn't want to be approaching non-Trinitarians with certain such proof-texts as a foundation. (And Genesis 1:26 is no better, really.)
    Ecclesia reformata et semper reformanda secundum verbum Dei
    “The Church reformed and always reforming, according to the Word of God.”

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