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Thread: Do you have to believe in the Trinity to be a Christian?

  1. #1411
    TOL Legend genuineoriginal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by way 2 go View Post
    Truth is much shorter

    Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    The Greek has "and God was the Word" not "and the Word was God"
    Learn to read what is written.

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  2. #1412
    TOL Legend genuineoriginal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by way 2 go View Post
    Truth is much shorter

    Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    The Greek has "and God was the Word" not "and the Word was God"
    Learn to read what is written.

    _____
    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

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    Over 2500 post club Apple7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by keypurr View Post
    The Apostles did not believe in a Trinity.
    Yes, they did.

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    Quote Originally Posted by keypurr View Post
    Like you, I do not read Greek either. Besides the Greek can distort truth as the originals were in Aramaic.
    No, keypops....

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    Over 1500 post club Faither's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bright Raven View Post
    Slice it, dice it any way you want.

    There's no such thing as " believing " in anything , to be a Christian ! The words believe , believer , and believing are mistranslations of the Greek word pisteuo .

  6. #1416
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    Quote Originally Posted by keypurr View Post
    The Apostles did not believe in a Trinity.
    Correct.

    Jesus never taught the Trinity.
    The Apostles never believed in a Trinity.
    The Apostles never taught a Trinity.
    The Trinity did not become a part of Christian doctrine until the Council of Constantinople in 381 CE.
    Learn to read what is written.

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    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

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    TOL Legend God's Truth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faither View Post
    There's no such thing as " believing " in anything , to be a Christian ! The words believe , believer , and believing are mistranslations of the Greek word pisteuo .
    We have to believe that we have to obey.

    We have to believe that Jesus' blood washes us of the sins we repent of doing.

    We have to believe that we have to do what Jesus says to do, and we have to actually do it.
    Oh how I love the Word of God!

    Do not just read the word do it.

  8. #1418
    TOL Legend God's Truth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    The Greek has "and God was the Word" not "and the Word was God"
    Now how does that make any difference?
    Oh how I love the Word of God!

    Do not just read the word do it.

  9. #1419
    LIFETIME MEMBER Bright Raven's Avatar
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    Yes
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

    Jim Elliot

  10. #1420
    TOL Legend genuineoriginal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Now how does that make any difference?
    _________________
    Logos, (Greek: “word,” “reason,” or “plan”)plural logoi, in Greek philosophy and theology, the divine reason implicit in the cosmos, ordering it and giving it form and meaning.

    The idea of the logos in Greek thought harks back at least to the 6th-century-BC philosopher Heracleitus, who discerned in the cosmic process a logos analogous to the reasoning power in man. Later, the Stoics, philosophers who followed the teachings of the thinker Zeno of Citium (4th–3rd century BC), defined the logos as an active rational and spiritual principle that permeated all reality. They called the logos providence, nature, god, and the soul of the universe, which is composed of many seminal logoi that are contained in the universal logos. Philo of Alexandria, a 1st-century-AD Jewish philosopher, taught that the logos was the intermediary between God and the cosmos, being both the agent of creation and the agent through which the human mind can apprehend and comprehend God. According to Philo and the Middle Platonists, philosophers who interpreted in religious terms the teachings of the 4th-century-BC Greek master philosopher Plato, the logos was both immanent in the world and at the same time the transcendent divine mind.
    _________________
    It may not make much difference to most people when you are trying to state either of the following:
    • and the active rational and spiritual principle that permeated all reality was God
    • and God was the active rational and spiritual principle that permeated all reality


    It does make a difference when you are trying to state either of the following:
    • and Jesus was God
    • and God was Jesus
    Learn to read what is written.

    _____
    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

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    Over 1500 post club Faither's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    We have to believe that we have to obey.

    We have to believe that Jesus' blood washes us of the sins we repent of doing.

    We have to believe that we have to do what Jesus says to do, and we have to actually do it.

    Your giving a great example of the Carnage the mistranslation of pisteuo into the English has caused .

    None of what you posted is the true life of Faithing in Christ , aka Christianity .

  12. #1422
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faither View Post
    Your giving a great example of the Carnage the mistranslation of pisteuo into the English has caused .

    None of what you posted is the true life of Faithing in Christ , aka Christianity .
    It is not carnage to believe and obey Jesus.

    How can a person say something so evil?

    Go ahead and try to prove it.

    You are not worth debating in the slightest.

    You had the chance to speak biblical about LIVING FAITH, FAITH THAT IS ALIVE.

    You rather choose though to go against the scriptures and against God's Truth.

    It isn't English to say 'faithing'.

    God brings His Truth to people in their language.

    Who wants to hear you make up a word and call it English?

    Who wants to hear you say the whole New Testament is a lie?
    Oh how I love the Word of God!

    Do not just read the word do it.

  13. #1423
    TOL Legend God's Truth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    _________________
    Logos, (Greek: “word,” “reason,” or “plan”)plural logoi, in Greek philosophy and theology, the divine reason implicit in the cosmos, ordering it and giving it form and meaning.

    The idea of the logos in Greek thought harks back at least to the 6th-century-BC philosopher Heracleitus, who discerned in the cosmic process a logos analogous to the reasoning power in man. Later, the Stoics, philosophers who followed the teachings of the thinker Zeno of Citium (4th–3rd century BC), defined the logos as an active rational and spiritual principle that permeated all reality. They called the logos providence, nature, god, and the soul of the universe, which is composed of many seminal logoi that are contained in the universal logos. Philo of Alexandria, a 1st-century-AD Jewish philosopher, taught that the logos was the intermediary between God and the cosmos, being both the agent of creation and the agent through which the human mind can apprehend and comprehend God. According to Philo and the Middle Platonists, philosophers who interpreted in religious terms the teachings of the 4th-century-BC Greek master philosopher Plato, the logos was both immanent in the world and at the same time the transcendent divine mind.
    _________________
    It may not make much difference to most people when you are trying to state either of the following:
    • and the active rational and spiritual principle that permeated all reality was God
    • and God was the active rational and spiritual principle that permeated all reality


    It does make a difference when you are trying to state either of the following:
    • and Jesus was God
    • and God was Jesus
    2 Timothy 2:14 Bring all this to men's remembrances, solemnly charging them in the presence of God not to waste time in wrangling about mere words, a course which is altogether unprofitable and tends only to the ruin of the hearers.
    Oh how I love the Word of God!

    Do not just read the word do it.

  14. #1424
    Over 1500 post club Faither's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    It is not carnage to believe and obey Jesus.

    How can a person say something so evil?

    Go ahead and try to prove it.

    You are not worth debating in the slightest.

    You had the chance to speak biblical about LIVING FAITH, FAITH THAT IS ALIVE.

    You rather choose though to go against the scriptures and against God's Truth.

    It isn't English to say 'faithing'.

    God brings His Truth to people in their language.

    Who wants to hear you make up a word and call it English?

    Who wants to hear you say the whole New Testament is a lie?

  15. #1425
    TOL Legend genuineoriginal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    2 Timothy 2:14 Bring all this to men's remembrances, solemnly charging them in the presence of God not to waste time in wrangling about mere words, a course which is altogether unprofitable and tends only to the ruin of the hearers.
    It was just such a debate that created the doctrine of the Trinity centuries after the crucifixion (to the ruin of the hearers).

    _________________
    Homoousios: A 100 year debate

    In the early fourth century a debate erupted over the concept of ‘homoousios’, a Greek word used to describe Jesus being of the same essence, being or substance as the Father.

    A hundred years earlier Origen, a theologian based in Alexandria with an interest in exploring faith in terms that made sense to those schooled in Greek philosophy, had talked about God being one ‘ousios’ or essence, with three distinct expressions or forms of being – hypostasis.

    He described Jesus in terms of the Logos, a phrase well known to followers of Greek philosopher Philo.

    Over time discussion began over whether to talk about Jesus and God having homo ousios (one substance) or homoi ousios (similar substance).

    In 264-268 the Synods of Antioch condemned the term ‘homoousios’ (same substance) because of its connections with Greek philosophy. They were also concerned that the concept, taken to extremes, could lead to a perception of Jesus that overlooked his humanity.
    _________________
    Learn to read what is written.

    _____
    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

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