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Thread: Homosexuality will destroy this and any country and needs to be recriminalized

  1. #46
    Over 4000 post club glassjester's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alwight View Post
    Unlike some religionists apparently I seem to be able to make my own relative valuations without any need at all to refer to an ancient scripture first.
    And how do you do that?
    Your "catholic" is showing. - Sozo

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    Over 4000 post club alwight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glassjester View Post
    And how do you do that?
    By using the brain that you presumably think God gave me.

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    Over 4000 post club glassjester's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alwight View Post
    By using the brain that you presumably think God gave me.
    Come on, we're capable of better discussion than that.

    On what do you base "your own relative valuations" when evaluating a particular action or opinion?

    What I mean is, if you say something is wrong to do - what is it you actually mean?

    Examples could include:
    - It is wrong to murder.
    - It is wrong to make homosexual acts illegal.
    - It is wrong to throw rocks off of overpasses.
    Your "catholic" is showing. - Sozo

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    Over 4000 post club alwight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glassjester View Post
    Come on, we're capable of better discussion than that.

    On what do you base "your own relative valuations" when evaluating a particular action or opinion?

    What I mean is, if you say something is wrong to do - what is it you actually mean?

    Examples could include:
    - It is wrong to murder.
    pretty much i- It is wrong to make homosexual acts illegal.
    - It is wrong to throw rocks off of overpasses.
    OK, well, as a reasonably intelligent person who has lived more than long enough to have experienced many things, who has been demonstrably both right and wrong empirically many times, I have learned to value my own judgement. I realise that if I don't want to be harmed by others then by the same token I mustn't do harm to others.
    I don't claim to have perfect judgement only what my brain processes as right or wrong, and which I think that my conclusions are pretty much in line with what is generally accepted as reasonable.

    You otoh will probably now tell me that all such mores and personal conclusions are not valid and superseded by Godly absolutes and diktats?
    The thing is even if that were true, why should I believe in any such absolute standards or mores when it is only other fallible human beings telling me so?

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    Quote Originally Posted by skyforger View Post
    "[W]e stone them to death for it."
    Should we put (Gen. 13:13) Sodomites ([Ex 20:14] heterosexual [Lev. 20:10–12] or homosexual [Lev. 20:10,13]) to death?
    Last edited by serpentdove; July 13th, 2015 at 10:03 AM.

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    Over 4000 post club glassjester's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alwight View Post
    OK, well, as a reasonably intelligent person who has lived more than long enough to have experienced many things, who has been demonstrably both right and wrong empirically many times, I have learned to value my own judgement. I realise that if I don't want to be harmed by others then by the same token I mustn't do harm to others.
    I don't claim to have perfect judgement only what my brain processes as right or wrong, and which I think that my conclusions are pretty much in line with what is generally accepted as reasonable.

    I appreciate the genuine response. Conversation isn't possible otherwise.

    The measure of whether something should or should not be done, then, is the degree to which it causes harm to another person. Am I understanding that?


    Quote Originally Posted by alwight View Post
    You otoh will probably now tell me that all such mores and personal conclusions are not valid and superseded by Godly absolutes and diktats?
    The thing is even if that were true, why should I believe in any such absolute standards or mores when it is only other fallible human beings telling me so?
    You will not see me espousing a "because I said so" stance here. I don't think there's much value in trying to get someone to believe something without any reason.

    I will seek to understand your reasoning though.
    Your "catholic" is showing. - Sozo

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    Over 4000 post club alwight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glassjester View Post
    I appreciate the genuine response. Conversation isn't possible otherwise.


    Quote Originally Posted by glassjester View Post
    The measure of whether something should or should not be done, then, is the degree to which it causes harm to another person. Am I understanding that?
    What I'm saying is that we have the mental capacity to evaluate and to come up with standards, and that then such things will typically get passed on to the young (memes?).
    I could of course cause great harm to others and suffer none myself in return, but I have no need of any supposed divine leash to prevent me. I have my own mental control and I expect that we are each able to conclude for ourselves the difference between right and wrong, in relative terms at least, reasonably well.
    Society will usually let's us know if we are stepping out of line or rewards us for being good, it requires no adherence to supposed absolutes.


    Quote Originally Posted by glassjester View Post
    You will not see me espousing a "because I said so" stance here. I don't think there's much value in trying to get someone to believe something without any reason.

    I will seek to understand your reasoning though.
    Thank you.
    Btw my relative judgement by the same token is that homosexuality between consenting adults in private is not wrong merely because the author of an ancient scripture says it is.

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    Let's wait a few years, shall we?

    My opinion here might be seen as disruptive, but I predict there will be no more threads allowed on TOL that are bigoted and homophobic.
    ____________________________________
    ...terrorism is the war of the poor and war is the terrorism of the rich...




    (STILL trying to set up conservatives and fundamentalists on blind dates with Jesus...)

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    Quote Originally Posted by alwight View Post


    What I'm saying is that we have the mental capacity to evaluate and to come up with standards, and that then such things will typically get passed on to the young (memes?).
    I could of course cause great harm to others and suffer none myself in return, but I have no need of any supposed divine leash to prevent me. I have my own mental control and I expect that we are each able to conclude for ourselves the difference between right and wrong, in relative terms at least, reasonably well.
    Society will usually let's us know if we are stepping out of line or rewards us for being good, it requires no adherence to supposed absolutes.

    I agree. There is something of an evolutionary activity to the moral standards of a society of people. Do you think it's possible for the morality of an entire group to shift through this process?


    Quote Originally Posted by alwight View Post
    Thank you.
    Btw my relative judgement by the same token is that homosexuality between consenting adults in private is not wrong merely because the author of an ancient scripture says it is.
    Again, I have to agree. I do not think anything could be wrong just because someone says it is.
    Your "catholic" is showing. - Sozo

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    Over 4000 post club alwight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glassjester View Post
    I agree. There is something of an evolutionary activity to the moral standards of a society of people. Do you think it's possible for the morality of an entire group to shift through this process?
    Yes, a moral zeitgeist.

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    Over 1000 post club The Horn's Avatar
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    Sorry , but you're just one of those Christian fanatics who literally wants the government in everyone's bedroom . You want a Christian theocracy in America , which is exactly what the founding fathers were so opposed to .
    You want our government to make everything YOU disapprove of illegal . First homosexuality , alcoholic beverages, adultery etc .
    You want the Christian equivalent of George Orwell's 1984 imposed on America , with Christian Big Brother constantly keeping everybody under observation just to make sure you're not doing something the Christian Taliban disapproves of .
    Some "limited government " ! Adultery is an unfortunate thing, but it's amatter between married couples, and our Big Brother government has NO RIGHT to persecute people for this .
    America tried Prohibition , but it was a n enomrous failure which only enabled Al Capone and other mobsters to make a fortune .
    Abortion was officially illegal except for some US states until 1973 , but there were countless illegal abortions before it performed by dangerous and unsanitary back-alley abortionists and who knows how many dead women or ones who nearly died . All the time, women who could afford it flew off to Europe for safe legal ones .
    How many illegal abortions were criminally prosecuted ?
    You can pretty much count them on your fingers . The law was almost NEVER enforced , because there was no way to do this .
    Gay people used to live in fear of being discovered , fired fromt heir jobs and being blackmailed by greedy, unscrupulous people .
    Many were sent to mental institutions forbrutal electric shock "therapy " to "cure" them of their homosexuality and some were even LOBOTOMIZED !
    Do you really want America to return to this sordid past ? To try to do this on the part of our government would be a total failure, waste billiosn of dollars a year and turn this country into a totalitarian police state . And it would be a massive violation of human rights !

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    TOL Legend Arthur Brain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aikido7 View Post
    Let's wait a few years, shall we?

    My opinion here might be seen as disruptive, but I predict there will be no more threads allowed on TOL that are bigoted and homophobic.
    I highly doubt that to be honest and I'm presuming you mean in regards to censorship laws than TOL management disallowing them? I would also hope not either as if you deprive people of a voice - no matter how much you might disagree with their opinion - you simply drive it underground and potentially cause more unrest than if they were allowed their say.

    I'd far sooner buffoons like aCW and his demented ilk could spew out their fixated bile as it actually exposes them for what they are and for all to see.
    Well this is fun isn't it?


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    81 countries with anti-homosexuality laws

    Africa

    1 Algeria
    2 Angola
    3 Botswana
    4 Burundi
    5 Cameroon
    6 Comoros
    7 Egypt
    8 Eritrea
    9 Ethiopia
    10 Gambia
    11 Ghana
    12 Guinea
    13 Kenya
    14 Liberia
    15 Libya
    16 Malawi (enforcement of law suspended)
    17 Mauritania
    18 Mauritius
    19 Morocco
    20 Namibia
    21 Nigeria
    22 Senegal
    23 Seychelles
    24 Sierra Leone
    25 Somalia
    26 South Sudan
    27 Sudan
    28 Swaziland
    29 Tanzania
    30 Togo
    31 Tunisia
    32 Uganda
    33 Zambia
    34 Zimbabwe

    Asia, including the Middle East

    35 Afghanistan
    36 Bangladesh
    37 Bhutan
    38 Brunei
    39 Daesh (or ISIS / ISIL)
    40 India
    41 Iran
    42 Iraq
    43 Kuwait
    44 Lebanon (law ruled invalid in one court)
    45 Malaysia
    46 Maldives
    47 Myanmar
    48 Oman
    49 Pakistan
    50 Palestine/Gaza Strip
    51 Qatar
    52 Saudi Arabia
    53 Singapore
    54 Sri Lanka
    55 Syria
    56 Turkmenistan
    57 United Arab Emirates
    58 Uzbekistan
    59 Yemen

    Americas

    60 Antigua & Barbuda
    61 Barbados
    62 Belize
    63 Dominica
    64 Grenada
    65 Guyana
    66 Jamaica
    67 St Kitts & Nevis
    68 St Lucia
    69 St Vincent & the Grenadines
    70 Trinidad & Tobago

    Oceania

    71 Cook Islands
    72 Indonesia (Aceh Province and South Sumatra)
    73 Kirbati
    74 Nauru
    75 Papua New Guinea
    76 Samoa
    77 Solomon Islands
    78 Tonga
    79 Tuvalu

    Europe

    80 Russia
    81 Lithuania

    http://76crimes.com/76-countries-whe...ty-is-illegal/
    Homosexuality will destroy this and any country and needs to be recriminalized

    Which of these democratic paradises which have crimminalized homosexuals do America comservatives wish to identify?

    The vast majority aren't even Christian!

  14. #59
    LIFETIME MEMBER Bright Raven's Avatar
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    Agreed. Homosexuality must be restricted.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

    Jim Elliot

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bright Raven View Post
    Agreed. Homosexuality must be restricted.
    how?

    walled ghettos?
    mass imprisonment?
    Internment camps?
    Death squads?

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