User Tag List

Page 7 of 10 FirstFirst ... 45678910 LastLast
Results 91 to 105 of 138

Thread: Hid From Them, By Them...

  1. #91
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    San Luis Potosi,Mexico
    Posts
    12,383
    Thanks
    1,184
    Thanked 8,335 Times in 5,456 Posts

    Mentioned
    93 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    2147814
    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    You just cannot but bait another into your corner.
    I am just discussing what the Bible teaches and I notice that you could not prove that anything I said is in error. And I baited no one.

    That is so Old School Mid-Acts - with its baiting, and interrogating, and performance based acceptance of others, all the while asserting it means well.
    Again, I will ask you to quote me doing those things.

    All the while, making up its own, faulty logic as it goes; that those erroneous traditions it holds to - holdovers from the error of Acts Two Dispensationalism - might remain.
    My ideas are shared by the giants of MAD, Sir Robert Anderson and J.C. O'Hair. Your ideas come straight from Bullinger and the Acts 28 camp.

    1 John 1 is addressing the very same issue related throughout Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John - the latter half of John 8, for example, or, say, the first eight verses or so of Matthew 3.
    In those gospels those already saved were told to be baptized with water to have their sins forgiven. In 1 John 1 the believers are told to confess their sins in order to have them forgiven.

    You're just stuck in Old School Mid-Acts in several of your views as well as in your approach.
    No one in your Neo-MAD camp can come close to the brilliance of either Anderson or O'Hair.

    All one has to do is apply the truth of Galatians 2:7-9 consistently no matter what sacred cow it ends up pointing one to have to let go of.
    I have always applied it consistently.

    It is how the sixth of the six Mid-Acts truths finally re-emerged - The Grace Life - in other words, the Grace Alternative to the traditions that still kept Mid-Acts under the bondage of Acts Dispensationalism's error - conditional blessings, etc.
    The teachings of Anderson and O'Hair was never under the bondage of Acts Dispensationalism's error.

    The New Man's is a Grace Orientation!
    Yes, and all the Jews who believed in the first century were in the Body of Christ.

    Here we can see that both Jews and Gentiles are baptized into the Body of Christ:

    "For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Cor.12:13).

    In this passage Paul uses the pronoun "we" twice and from his introduction in that same epistle we can know that that pronoun is not only referring to those in the church at Corinth but also "all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord":

    "Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's" (1 Cor.1:2).

    All of the Jewish believers living in the first century did indeed call on the name of Jesus Christ so therefore all of them belonged to the Body of Christ.

    Now don't feel pressured into answering anything I said. I wouldn't want you to think that I am baiting you.

  2. #92
    TOL Subscriber glorydaz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    22,669
    Thanks
    13,471
    Thanked 35,422 Times in 17,814 Posts

    Blog Entries
    1
    Mentioned
    92 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)


    Rep Power
    2147792
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post

    Please don't feel pressured to answer my question.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post


    Please don't feel pressured to answer what I said.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Now don't feel pressured to answer what I have said.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Now don't feel pressured into answering anything I said. I wouldn't want you to think that I am baiting you.
    I think this is what is known as being passive aggressive.

  3. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to glorydaz For Your Post:

    LoneStar (April 30th, 2016),Tambora (April 26th, 2016)

  4. #93
    TOL Subscriber glorydaz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    22,669
    Thanks
    13,471
    Thanked 35,422 Times in 17,814 Posts

    Blog Entries
    1
    Mentioned
    92 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)


    Rep Power
    2147792
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    No, the use of the pronoun "we" is pointing to those writing the epistle:

    "That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full. This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all" (1 Jn.1:3-5).

    And you failed to address what I said here:

    Here is an example of a Christian walking in darkness:

    "But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed. For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision. And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation. But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?" (Gal.2:11-14).

    Since Peter was not walking uprightly according to the truth of the gospel it is obvious that he was not walking in the light but instead he was walking in darkness.

    Now don't feel pressured to answer what I have said.
    Nope, you're just flat out wrong and repeating it over and over again will not make it so. Now, don't feel you need to repeat it again, I see what you're saying, and your stubbornness has made you blind to the truth. It's like trying to explain to God's UNtruth that we don't have to OBEY to be saved.

  5. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to glorydaz For Your Post:

    LoneStar (April 30th, 2016),Tambora (April 26th, 2016)

  6. #94
    TOL Legend
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    15,249
    Thanks
    370
    Thanked 3,741 Times in 2,788 Posts

    Blog Entries
    1
    Mentioned
    32 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    1247752
    Your response # 91, was predictable, Jerry - you ignored the references I gave you.

    My words offended you - truth tends to do that.

    And no, I feel neither pressured nor baited. Those bullying tactics don't work on me.

    Yours is the Old School Mid-Acts yet to recover from the errors of Acts Two Dispensationalism's conditional blessing notions.

    The error that turns O'Hair's and Anderson's last words only because their time ended... into the final word on a matter.

    I am sorry to have to appear to be your enemy in this, but you are off-base because yours is Old School Mid-Acts; wherein many refinements were still needed because the hermeneutic was not consistently being followed.

    In O'Hair's case - his testimony is faultless. His understanding, though, still leaving much to be desired because he was still figuring out what went where.

    Stam himself said as much about his on this in the preface to Things That Differ.

    Here, I'll lay out just a bit of one of 1 John 1 - without "the Greek," with its pick and choose problem; without "the best translations" with this same problem; and without what ever external writers might best assert the conclusion your inconsistent hermeneutic consistently arrives you at.

    1 John 1 is the same issue below after the Cross:

    6. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
    7. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
    8. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
    9. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
    10. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

    The balance of 1 John also deals with many of the same issues related in John 8 for example.

    But let's deal with this one alone - as to who those are who say they walk in light, but are not in the light:

    John 8:

    30. As he spake these words, many believed on him.
    31. Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
    32. And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
    33. They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
    34. Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
    35. And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
    36. If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
    37. I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
    38. I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
    39. They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
    40. But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
    41. Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
    42. Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
    43. Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
    44. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from
    the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
    45. And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
    46. Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
    47. He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

    Aw, what the heck, here is another - Matthew 3:

    4. And the same John had his raiment of camel's hair, and a leathern girdle about his loins; and his meat was locusts and wild honey.
    5. Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan,
    6. And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.
    7. But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
    8. Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
    9. And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
    10. And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
    11. I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
    12. Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

    Acts 5:

    1. But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,

    Hmm, sounds like they appeared to have walked in the light - they sold their possessions as was their Circumcision doctrine; right?

    You know the rest of that narrative...

    Point is, there are many examples in Scripture as is of who John was referring to...

  7. #95
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    San Luis Potosi,Mexico
    Posts
    12,383
    Thanks
    1,184
    Thanked 8,335 Times in 5,456 Posts

    Mentioned
    93 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    2147814
    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    In O'Hair's case - his testimony is faultless. His understanding, though, still leaving much to be desired because he was still figuring out what went where.
    So you agree with what he said here?:

    "Peter and James and ten other apostles are going to sit on twelve thrones and judge the twelve tribes of Israel. (Matthew 19:27 and 28). But I do not agree with Christians who say that the twelve apostles were not members of the Body of Christ...I make no such foolish statement...that these Epistles of Peter and James are not for this age...I use 1 Peter 3:18 in preaching the gospel of grace as frequently as I use any other verse" [emphasis mine] (O'Hair, The Accuser of the Brethren and the Brethren Concerning Bullingerism).

    Since O'Hair's teaching was faultless, you must agree with what He said there. that the Twelve were in the Body of Christ.

    1 John 1 is the same issue below after the Cross:

    6. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
    7. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
    8. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
    9. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
    10. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
    John was one of the Twelve so according to O'Hair's faultless teaching, John was addressing those in the Body of Christ.

    When John uses the pronoun "we" he is obviously referring to believers:

    "That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full. This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth.But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us" (1 Jn.1:3-10).

    So John is saying that when we believers confess our sins the Lord will forgive us our sins. He also says that if we believers say that we have no sin we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.
    This letter is not addressed to any unbelievers.

    We can see that Peter did in fact walk in darkness here:

    "But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed. For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision. And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation. But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?" (Gal.2:11-14).

    Obviously Peter was not walking in the light because he was not walking uprightly according to the gospel.

  8. #96
    TOL Subscriber glorydaz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    22,669
    Thanks
    13,471
    Thanked 35,422 Times in 17,814 Posts

    Blog Entries
    1
    Mentioned
    92 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)


    Rep Power
    2147792
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Since O'Hair's teaching was faultless, you must agree with what He said there. that the Twelve were in the Body of Christ.


    He said O'Hair's "testimony" was faultless...not his teaching. I only bring this to the front because it's quite a habit you have of reading into what was said.

  9. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to glorydaz For Your Post:

    LoneStar (April 30th, 2016),Tambora (April 26th, 2016)

  10. #97
    TOL Legend
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    15,249
    Thanks
    370
    Thanked 3,741 Times in 2,788 Posts

    Blog Entries
    1
    Mentioned
    32 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    1247752
    Lol, Jerry - you can not get far with out your study aids; can you?

    I said his testimony was faultless; not his teaching.

    You've proven again that you read into a thing and then run with it.

    O'Hair holds a very special place in my heart; for his testimony as one who loved the Lord; was tireless in his work on behalf of the lost, and for his willingness as that rare Bible student ever open to correction.

    He was still off on various issues because he was still figuring out how to tell when his hermeneutic was off.

    For example, contrary to Gal. 2:7-9, he had held that the Gospel of John was for us.

    He also still believed in the Spirit's leading outside of His Word.

    He was a dear, precious brother.

    Faultless testimony.

    Msny of his people were the same - open to correction.

    Though, like the great man; they didn't take too well to being spoken down to.

  11. #98
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    San Luis Potosi,Mexico
    Posts
    12,383
    Thanks
    1,184
    Thanked 8,335 Times in 5,456 Posts

    Mentioned
    93 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    2147814
    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    Nope, you're just flat out wrong and repeating it over and over again will not make it so. Now, don't feel you need to repeat it again, I see what you're saying, and your stubbornness has made you blind to the truth. It's like trying to explain to God's UNtruth that we don't have to OBEY to be saved.
    Since you think that you are able to say that I am blind to the truth then you must think that you know the truth. That being said, tell us your interpretation of the meaning of the "truth" spoken of here:

    "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).

  12. #99
    TOL Subscriber glorydaz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    22,669
    Thanks
    13,471
    Thanked 35,422 Times in 17,814 Posts

    Blog Entries
    1
    Mentioned
    92 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)


    Rep Power
    2147792
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post




    When John uses the pronoun "we" he is obviously referring to believers:

    "That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full. This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth.But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us" (1 Jn.1:3-10).

    So John is saying that when we believers confess our sins the Lord will forgive us our sins. He also says that if we believers say that we have no sin we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.
    This letter is not addressed to any unbelievers.


    Paul certainly didn't preach that we had to confess our sins in order to be forgiven. Paul also said we are dead to sin and not under the law...that Christ is the end of the law for righteousness for all who believe.

    Instead of obsessing over the "royal" "we", you should be looking at John's comparison of those who "SAY" (CLAIM what they do not have) with those who actually have and do. Claimers versus possessers. It's really naive to think that everyone John is addressing is a believer. Clearly John knows better than that. Why don't you?

  13. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to glorydaz For Your Post:

    LoneStar (April 30th, 2016),Tambora (April 26th, 2016)

  14. #100
    TOL Subscriber glorydaz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    22,669
    Thanks
    13,471
    Thanked 35,422 Times in 17,814 Posts

    Blog Entries
    1
    Mentioned
    92 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)


    Rep Power
    2147792
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Since you think that you are able to say that I am blind to the truth then you must think that you know the truth. That being said, tell us your interpretation of the meaning of the "truth" spoken of here:

    "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).
    It certainly doesn't mean that the devils who believe have everlasting life....does it? That's your problem, Jerry. You are so hard headed that you can't see the forest for the trees. The verse you keep citing is very straight forward, but belief is one thing to the Jews who needed to believe that Jesus was the Son of God and another to the Gentiles who believe the Gospel. Context is everything.

  15. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to glorydaz For Your Post:

    LoneStar (April 30th, 2016),Tambora (April 26th, 2016)

  16. #101
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    San Luis Potosi,Mexico
    Posts
    12,383
    Thanks
    1,184
    Thanked 8,335 Times in 5,456 Posts

    Mentioned
    93 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    2147814
    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    I said his testimony was faultless; not his teaching.
    Oh, so his teaching was not his testimony! LOL!

    The word "testify" means "to make a statement based on personal knowledge or belief" (Merriam- Webster's Collegiate Dictionary).

    That is exactly what O'Hair did when he taught about what is said in the Scriptures.

    But you said that his testimony was faultless but not his teaching.

    He was still off on various issues because he was still figuring out how to tell when his hermeneutic was off.
    His teaching or testimony was correct when he said that the Twelve were in the Body of Christ. Here we can see that both Jews and Gentiles are baptized into the Body of Christ:

    "For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Cor.12:13).

    In this passage Paul uses the pronoun "we" twice and from his introduction in that same epistle we can know that that pronoun is not only referring to those in the church at Corinth but also "all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord":

    "Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's" (1 Cor.1:2).

    All of the Jewish believers living in the first century did indeed call on the name of Jesus Christ so therefore all of them belonged to the Body of Christ. Cornelius Stam, the founder of the Berean Bible Society, wrote the following commentary on 1 Corinthians 1:2:

    "There are other evidences that the kingdom saints of Paul's day became members of the Body of Christ. In I Corinthians 1:2, Paul addresses his letter to the Corinthian church, 'with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs [those in every place] and ours [those with Paul].' And he says to 'all' these believers 'in every place': 'For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one Body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles' (I Cor. 12:13). How can this be made to exclude the Judean believers?" (Cornelius Stam, Commentary on Galatians [Stevens Point, WI: Worzalla Publishing Co., 1998], 198).

    I have been waiting patiently for one of you Neo-MADs to address this but so far I have waited in vain. Now would be a good time to address this since we are now discussing this subject, especially what O'Hair said here:

    "Peter and James and ten other apostles are going to sit on twelve thrones and judge the twelve tribes of Israel. (Matthew 19:27 and 28). But I do not agree with Christians who say that the twelve apostles were not members of the Body of Christ...I make no such foolish statement...that these Epistles of Peter and James are not for this age...I use 1 Peter 3:18 in preaching the gospel of grace as frequently as I use any other verse" [emphasis mine] (O'Hair, The Accuser of the Brethren and the Brethren Concerning Bullingerism).

    For example, contrary to Gal. 2:7-9, he had held that the Gospel of John was for us.

    He also still believed in the Spirit's leading outside of His Word.
    Out of respect for Mr. O'Hair the least you could do is to quote his own words.

  17. #102
    TOL Legend
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    15,249
    Thanks
    370
    Thanked 3,741 Times in 2,788 Posts

    Blog Entries
    1
    Mentioned
    32 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    1247752
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Oh, so his teaching was not his testimony! LOL!

    The word "testify" means "to make a statement based on personal knowledge or belief" (Merriam- Webster's Collegiate Dictionary).

    That is exactly what O'Hair did when he taught about what is said in the Scriptures.

    But you said that his testimony was faultless but not his teaching.



    His teaching or testimony was correct when he said that the Twelve were in the Body of Christ. Here we can see that both Jews and Gentiles are baptized into the Body of Christ:

    "For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Cor.12:13).

    In this passage Paul uses the pronoun "we" twice and from his introduction in that same epistle we can know that that pronoun is not only referring to those in the church at Corinth but also "all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord":

    "Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's" (1 Cor.1:2).

    All of the Jewish believers living in the first century did indeed call on the name of Jesus Christ so therefore all of them belonged to the Body of Christ. Cornelius Stam, the founder of the Berean Bible Society, wrote the following commentary on 1 Corinthians 1:2:

    "There are other evidences that the kingdom saints of Paul's day became members of the Body of Christ. In I Corinthians 1:2, Paul addresses his letter to the Corinthian church, 'with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs [those in every place] and ours [those with Paul].' And he says to 'all' these believers 'in every place': 'For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one Body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles' (I Cor. 12:13). How can this be made to exclude the Judean believers?" (Cornelius Stam, Commentary on Galatians [Stevens Point, WI: Worzalla Publishing Co., 1998], 198).

    I have been waiting patiently for one of you Neo-MADs to address this but so far I have waited in vain. Now would be a good time to address this since we are now discussing this subject, especially what O'Hair said here:

    "Peter and James and ten other apostles are going to sit on twelve thrones and judge the twelve tribes of Israel. (Matthew 19:27 and 28). But I do not agree with Christians who say that the twelve apostles were not members of the Body of Christ...I make no such foolish statement...that these Epistles of Peter and James are not for this age...I use 1 Peter 3:18 in preaching the gospel of grace as frequently as I use any other verse" [emphasis mine] (O'Hair, The Accuser of the Brethren and the Brethren Concerning Bullingerism).



    Out of respect for Mr. O'Hair the least you could do is to quote his own words.
    Lol, you legalist, you - reach for the convenience of the word choice of a dictionary

    Words derive their sense from how they are used, and in the setting in which they are.

    Outside of that, words actually have no meaning.

    Try having someone from another culture and language making sense out of any of these sentences.

    What did "drop a dime mean" when phone calls were ten cents.

    What did it mean when "acid trips" became popular within certain sub-cultures.

    Out of respect for Mr. O'Hair, the least you could is not make your needing to prove you are right the issue. You are way more Ironside in this - O'Hair's enemy - than even O'Hair's shadow.

    With me, you will get nowhere with your "prove me right" notion.

    Get over yourself, brother; the issue is the Cross.

  18. #103
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    San Luis Potosi,Mexico
    Posts
    12,383
    Thanks
    1,184
    Thanked 8,335 Times in 5,456 Posts

    Mentioned
    93 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    2147814
    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    It certainly doesn't mean that the devils who believe have everlasting life....does it?'
    What is your point about the devils? Are asserting that the Jews who believed do not have everlasting life?:

    "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).

    All I see from you is an effort to somehow undermine the plain words of John 3:16.

    That's your problem, Jerry. You are so hard headed that you can't see the forest for the trees.
    You see neither since you are blind to the truth of what is said at John 3:16.

    The verse you keep citing is very straight forward, but belief is one thing to the Jews who needed to believe that Jesus was the Son of God...
    Yes, and when they believed that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, they received everlasting life and the promise that they will never perish.

    Therefore, the content of what they believed for salvation was different from the content of what the Gentiles believed for salvation. But aside from that they were saved just like we are--by grace through faith:

    "Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all" (Ro.4:16).

    And if the Jews could not be saved apart from works, then it cannot be said that their salvation was of grace:

    "Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt" (Ro.4:4).

  19. #104
    TOL Legend
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    15,249
    Thanks
    370
    Thanked 3,741 Times in 2,788 Posts

    Blog Entries
    1
    Mentioned
    32 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    1247752
    Never mind that John 3:16 is three years or so before the Cross, and that the Lord had expected Nicodemas to know what all He was talking about

  20. #105
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    San Luis Potosi,Mexico
    Posts
    12,383
    Thanks
    1,184
    Thanked 8,335 Times in 5,456 Posts

    Mentioned
    93 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    2147814
    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    Lol, you legalist, you - reach for the convenience of the word choice of a dictionary
    All I can see of you, brother, is the fact that you are good at name calling. You certainly did not even attempt to address what I said here:

    Here we can see that both Jews and Gentiles are baptized into the Body of Christ:

    "For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Cor.12:13).

    In this passage Paul uses the pronoun "we" twice and from his introduction in that same epistle we can know that that pronoun is not only referring to those in the church at Corinth but also "all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord":

    "Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's" (1 Cor.1:2).

    All of the Jewish believers living in the first century did indeed call on the name of Jesus Christ so therefore all of them belonged to the Body of Christ. Cornelius Stam, the founder of the Berean Bible Society, wrote the following commentary on 1 Corinthians 1:2:

    "There are other evidences that the kingdom saints of Paul's day became members of the Body of Christ. In I Corinthians 1:2, Paul addresses his letter to the Corinthian church, 'with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs [those in every place] and ours [those with Paul].' And he says to 'all' these believers 'in every place': 'For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one Body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles' (I Cor. 12:13). How can this be made to exclude the Judean believers?" (Cornelius Stam, Commentary on Galatians [Stevens Point, WI: Worzalla Publishing Co., 1998], 198).

    I have been waiting patiently for one of you Neo-MADs to address this but once again I am disappointed that you did not even attempt to address it.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
About us
Since 1997 TheologyOnline (TOL) has been one of the most popular theology forums on the internet. On TOL we encourage spirited conversation about religion, politics, and just about everything else.

follow us