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Thread: Hid From Them, By Them...

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    Hid From Them, By Them...

    Part One

    In Luke 18, we read:

    31. Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.
    32. For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:
    33. And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.
    34. And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.

    The Lord relates that “all things… concerning” Himself - “he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on: And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again" - "are written in the prophets.”

    Verse 34 relates that “they understood none of these things:” – in other words,” that “this saying was hid from them,” or, to put it another way, “neither knew they the things which were spoken.”

    Not that they did not know of it, but that they had not been able to understand this that He had just related to them once more - that “he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on: And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.”

    “This saying” – the intended sense, or meaning of His Words to them concerning his coming death and resurrection “was hid from” their understanding. That is, they were unable to make sense of what he was talking about; unable figure it out.

    Why?

    Simply because, as is often the case in life; some things are better understood only after their fact.

    Why?

    Luke 22 is another instance where he had spoken of this issue concerning His coming death and resurrection to no avail, and its tone is the same - His frustration with their lack of faith as to this saying, or words, of His:

    37. For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.

    The Lord was not only following a scheduled plan and purpose, but one that was knowable, as "this that is written."

    Anyway, the sense of that is that they ought to have known – Note His Word to the two disciples on the road to Emmaus; for their still having doubted His words above to them, later, even after the fact - when His tomb was reported empty after His resurrection – Luke 24:

    25. Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
    26. Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
    27. And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

    Note what the issue had actually been; not that understanding His Words concerning His coming death and resurrection had been hid from their ability to understand His Words on this issue, rather, that they had failed to believe His Words on this.

    Hebrews 1: 1. Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

    They had failed to understand because they had failed to simply believe His Words, as crazy as said Words might have sounded to their ears.

    In Romans 10:17, just before, as well as after Paul summarizes what He is relating there as "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God," he relates Israel had known but had failed to believe.

    Of his own past, Paul relates in Acts 26:

    6. And now I stand and am judged for the hope of the promise made of God, unto our fathers:
    7. Unto which promise our twelve tribes, instantly serving God day and night, hope to come. For which hope's sake, king Agrippa, I am accused of the Jews.
    8. Why should it be thought a thing incredible with you, that God should raise the dead?
    9. I verily thought with myself, that I ought to do many things contrary to the name of Jesus of Nazareth.

    The Twelve had believed Jesus was Messiah, but had been slow of heart to believe His Words to them that He would die and be raised again, and by that, had been unable to understand His Words - their failure "to believe all that the prophets have spoken" had not allowed them to "see" what He was talking about.

    Consider David's words when all seemed lost for him - Psalm 27:

    12. Deliver me not over unto the will of mine enemies: for false witnesses are risen up against me, and such as breathe out cruelty.
    13. I had fainted, unless I had believed to see the goodness of the LORD in the land of the living.

    His advice as to this eye of faith.

    14. Wait on the LORD: be of good courage, and he shall strengthen thine heart: wait, I say, on the LORD.

    Hebrews 11:

    3. Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

    While 1 Corinthians 2 is the issue of "our glory," not of our salvation.

    Paul had only been able to keep things simple with them, due to their own faith issue.

    Had not been able to go past the issue of Christ died for your sins.

    Had not been able to speak as unto they that are perfect; had not been able to speak of the wisdom of God in a mystery; even the hidden wisdom of God unto our glory.
    Last edited by Danoh; June 3rd, 2015 at 02:16 AM.

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    Hid From Them, By Them...

    Part Two

    Later, the Father would reveal; through a new, unexpected, one Apostle too many to Israel’s already existing Twelve, with good reason for that; that He had all along been using this made known wisdom of His; His Prophesied will, as a means of taking the wisdom of this world in its own craftiness against His Prophesied will, simply by His having hid in Himself an aspect of His overall will: a Mystery; even the hidden wisdom of God.


    1 Corinthians 2:
    6. Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
    7. But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
    8. Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

    The issue in 1 Corinthians 2 is the issue of the Father’s hidden wisdom – of the latter of that aspect of the Father’s Two-Fold Purpose in His Son: Prophecy and Mystery.

    A Mystery Creature the Resurrection of Christ also made possible – it made possible this New Creature - “our glory”in the Lord of Glory Himself in Glory itself - at the right hand of the Father in Glory; in Heaven.

    Romans 8:
    14. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
    15. For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
    16. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
    17. And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
    18. For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

    29. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
    30. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

    1 Corinthians 15:
    49. And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
    50. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
    51. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
    52. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

    Ephesians 1:
    11. In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
    12. That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
    13. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
    14. Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

    Philippians 3:
    20. For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
    21. Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

    Colossians 1:
    26. Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
    27. To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

    The glory of this mystery is Christ – the hope of Glory Himself – Christ Himself, in us “unto our” glory in Him to the praise of His glory as the hope of Glory, before all creation.

    The riches of this glory – of Christ in us – is – all that is His in Glory, is ours in Him.

    All this is now being made manifest in Him, by the Church.

    1 Thessalonians 2: 12. That ye would walk worthy of God, who hath called you unto his kingdom and glory.

    2 Thessalonians 2:
    13. But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
    14. Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    And where did Paul meet these Thessalonians? In Acts 17.

    He was preaching this New Creature's glory - all along.

    Had they known of this glory by the Church before all creation that the resurrection of Christ would make possible, those dark princes of this age, would not have crucified Lord of this Mystery Glory.
    Last edited by Danoh; June 3rd, 2015 at 02:24 AM.

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    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    1 Corinthians 15:
    49. And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
    50. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
    51. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
    52. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
    The Jewish believers were also told that they will be changed:

    "Beloved, now are we the children of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is" (1 Jn.3:2).

    Those words of John speak of the "appearance" of the Lord Jesus and at that time he says that "we shall be like Him." That is the same "appearance" which Paul refers to here:

    "When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory" (Col.3:4).

    Those in the Body of Christ will "appear with Him in glory" because they will put on a new, glorious body just like the Lord's glorious body:

    "For our citizenship is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall change our lowly body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself" (Phil.3:20-21).

    In the following passage from another Hebrew epistle Peter is speaking of the exact same thing:

    "The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed...And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away" (1 Pet.5:1,4).

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    Thanks, for your input, Jerry.

    I was hoping to explore this with others in Mid-Acts, whether or not we see it the same.

    I'm wondering, where exactly are you rightly dividing the word of truth, Jerry, that you have the Little Flock becoming members of the Body of Christ.

    In your understanding; is there no earthly purpose prior to the dispensation of the fulness of times?

    I take it your view is that the Body returns to the Earth?

    That you do not see the Body as intended for positions of authority in the heavenlies- would that be your view?

    By the way, in my own understanding, all aspects of the Mystery have to do with two issues:

    A redemption also accomplished at the Cross - but - unto a New Creature - this side - of Israel's fall and the salvation of Paul;

    The reconciling of the Heavenlies that the Lord's resurrection and ascension also made possible.

    Thanks, brother.

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    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    I take it your view is that the Body returns to the Earth?
    Once the members of the Body of Christ meet the Lord in the air then they will always be with Him from that point in time forward:

    "Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord" (1 Thess.4:17).

    So when the Lord Jesus returns to the earth we will return with Him. Are you under the impression that when He returns we will not be with Him?

    By the way, in my own understanding, all aspects of the Mystery have to do with two issues:

    A redemption also accomplished at the Cross - but - unto a New Creature - this side - of Israel's fall and the salvation of Paul;

    The reconciling of the Heavenlies that the Lord's resurrection and ascension also made possible.
    THE MYSTERY is to be preached to all, and that mystery is the "gospel of the grace of God." Here Paul says that it has "now" been revealed and therefore had been kept secret:

    "But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus" (Ro.3:21-24).

    I was hoping to explore this with others in Mid-Acts, whether or not we see it the same.
    Yes, that is the discussion which we need badly!

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    O Death Where is they sting now?

    We do differ in our understanding. Yours is in fact, an Acts 2 understanding of all the above you cited in your response to me.

    Paul's sense is how the righteousness of God was witnessed by the law and the prophets.

    How?

    He just told his readers - Romans 1:

    18. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
    19. Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

    ... which leads to his summary in Romans 3:

    19. Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
    20. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

    That was the righteousness of God being revealed under the Law through man's failure to hold to the deeds of the Law.

    21. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
    22. Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
    23. For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
    24. Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
    25. Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
    26. To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

    Galatians 3:

    19. Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
    20. Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
    21. Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
    22. But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
    23. But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
    24. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
    25. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

    God was proving some things via the works of the Law - the absence of righteousness in man.

    Having proved that...

    But now the righteousness of God without the Law is made manifest.

    Not why now, as how now - and not what you are reading into it as to now?

    In the sense of the following - "To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus" is not only after the fact of the finished work of Christ, but also, after that fact that the Law proved concerning Israel.

    With that proven, God temporarily changed coarse as He'd planned to through their fall under the Law by the Law.

    And not only so, but, towards his Heavenly purpose, so no, I do not believe we will be coming back, as that is not the sense of Paul's so shall we ever be with the Lord.

    His actual sense, given what he is talking about there - their dead loved one's in the Lord, is Mystery truth once more!

    1 Corinthians 15:

    54. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in
    victory.
    55. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
    56. The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
    57. But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

    This ever being with Him is the issue of being with Him in His victory over death.

    Philippians 3:

    20. For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
    21. Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

    One more issue that is Two-Fold as the Little Flock also has their promise as to victory over death just as was Prophesied.

    Two-fold Purpose.

    Colossians 1:

    15. Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
    16. For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
    17. And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

    18. And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
    19. For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
    20. And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

    Two spheres of authority - Ephesians 3:

    14. For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
    15. Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,

    There is that other realm His Cross and resurrection also evidenced his right to reign over - Ephesians 1:

    18. The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
    19. And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
    20. Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
    21. Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
    22. And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
    23. Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

    His Body, is the very fulness of Him by which He will all those things - thrones, dominions, etc., in Heavenly places.

    This is why Satan hates the Mystery - we - the Body will not only be like - but will reign with the Most High in His Son!!!

    Again...

    20. Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
    21. Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:

    Reread my above on our glory in Him by Him to the praise the glory of His grace wherein the Father hath made us accepted in the Beloved!

    Think on that - that oh so precious little boy responded with "Wist ye not that I must be about My Father's business..."

    We can say the same - as Adult Sons in the Son by the Spirit to the glory of the Father in His Son!

    This is more that saved from hell - this is saved unto an astoundingly amazing, and eternal purpose in the Heavens!

    "Amazing Grace, brother, how sweet the sound... there ten thousand years..." not even the tip of all this all in all!

    Its Amazing that hymn captured that so well!

    Thank you, brother - what a joy it is to reflect on these issues, that even response in differences causes one to reflect on!

    The angels are observing this and rejoicing, as are those Three In One!


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    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    We do differ in our understanding. Yours is in fact, an Acts 2 understanding of all the above you cited in your response to me.

    Paul's sense is how the righteousness of God was witnessed by the law and the prophets.
    No, Paul's sense was that the righteousness of God without (or apart from) the law was witnessed by the "law and the prophets."

    The truth of a righteousness of God apart from the law was witnessed by the law and the prophets, a term used to describe the whole OT. Therefore, in the next chapter Paul used David to witness to this truth concerning the righteousness of God apart from the law:

    "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin" (Ro.4:5-8).

    Then later in the same epistles Paul wrote:

    "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth" (Ro.10:4).

    From this we can see that Christ is the END OF THE LAW FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS to every one who believes; therefore, the Jewish believers CANNOT be excluded.

    And not only so, but, towards his Heavenly purpose, so no, I do not believe we will be coming back, as that is not the sense of Paul's so shall we ever be with the Lord.
    Let us look at Paul's words again:

    "Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord" (1 Thess.4:17).

    Here Paul is speaking of "meeting" the Lord in the air so this is speaking of being in His presence. So the words which follow can only be in regard to one sense, that we will ever be in His presence.

    To interpret the meaning in any other sense defies common sense. We will always be in His presence from the moment when we meet Him in the air. That means that when He returns to earth we will be with Him.

    You have not given any proof that we will not return to the earth with Him.

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    Nope...

    Rather...

    The righteousness of God revealed in the Law and the Prophets is now being offered without the Law; in the gospel of Christ; the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe.

    For, as the righteousness of God witnessed by the Law and the prophets had repeatedly revealed; there is none righteous, no; not one; there is no difference – all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

    Galatians 4:

    21. Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
    22. But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
    23. But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
    24. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
    25. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
    26. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

    The purpose of the Law had not been to give righteousness, rather, to prove through its offer of righteousness by the Law, that none could attain to the righteousness of the Law.

    Having proven that; now, the righteousness of God without the Law is the issue - its is now being offered - even the righteousness which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all, and upon all that believe.

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    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    Nope...

    Rather...

    The righteousness of God revealed in the Law and the Prophets is now being offered without the Law; in the gospel of Christ; the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe.
    Nope...

    That is not what Paul said. He said that the righteousness of God apart from the law is witnessed by the OT. And then he uses David as an example of a person who lived under the law who received this blessing.

    And the Lord Jesus' words to the Jews who lived under the law PROVES that they were saved by faith alone:

    "Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).

    In this verse the Greek word translated "believes" and the Greek word translated "has" are both in the "present" tense.

    In The Blue Letter Bible we read the following meaning of the present tense:

    "The present tense represents a simple statement of fact or reality viewed as occurring in actual time. In most cases this corresponds directly with the English present tense."

    Therefore, John 5:24 is saying that those who were believing at the time the Lord Jesus spoke those words had already received eternal life.
    Last edited by Jerry Shugart; June 7th, 2015 at 02:24 PM.

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    Obviously, we study these things differently.

    I go by overall narrative. You appear to apply other sources in addition to that.

    We may never agree on some things due to this.

    Lol, kind of like the differences between Stam's and Jordan's respective approach's, thus, their differences in understanding on some things.

    Not bad company for either one of us to be in...

    I'm okay with that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    Part One

    In Luke 18, we read:

    31. Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.
    32. For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:
    33. And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.
    34. And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.

    The Lord relates that “all things… concerning” Himself - “he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on: And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again" - "are written in the prophets.”

    Verse 34 relates that “they understood none of these things:” – in other words,” that “this saying was hid from them,” or, to put it another way, “neither knew they the things which were spoken.”

    Not that they did not know of it, but that they had not been able to understand this that He had just related to them once more - that “he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on: And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.”

    “This saying” – the intended sense, or meaning of His Words to them concerning his coming death and resurrection “was hid from” their understanding. That is, they were unable to make sense of what he was talking about; unable figure it out.

    Why?

    Simply because, as is often the case in life; some things are better understood only after their fact.

    Why?

    Luke 22 is another instance where he had spoken of this issue concerning His coming death and resurrection to no avail, and its tone is the same - His frustration with their lack of faith as to this saying, or words, of His:

    37. For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.

    The Lord was not only following a scheduled plan and purpose, but one that was knowable, as "this that is written."

    Anyway, the sense of that is that they ought to have known – Note His Word to the two disciples on the road to Emmaus; for their still having doubted His words above to them, later, even after the fact - when His tomb was reported empty after His resurrection – Luke 24:

    25. Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
    26. Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
    27. And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

    Note what the issue had actually been; not that understanding His Words concerning His coming death and resurrection had been hid from their ability to understand His Words on this issue, rather, that they had failed to believe His Words on this.

    Hebrews 1: 1. Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

    They had failed to understand because they had failed to simply believe His Words, as crazy as said Words might have sounded to their ears.

    In Romans 10:17, just before, as well as after Paul summarizes what He is relating there as "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God," he relates Israel had known but had failed to believe.

    Of his own past, Paul relates in Acts 26:

    6. And now I stand and am judged for the hope of the promise made of God, unto our fathers:
    7. Unto which promise our twelve tribes, instantly serving God day and night, hope to come. For which hope's sake, king Agrippa, I am accused of the Jews.
    8. Why should it be thought a thing incredible with you, that God should raise the dead?
    9. I verily thought with myself, that I ought to do many things contrary to the name of Jesus of Nazareth.

    The Twelve had believed Jesus was Messiah, but had been slow of heart to believe His Words to them that He would die and be raised again, and by that, had been unable to understand His Words - their failure "to believe all that the prophets have spoken" had not allowed them to "see" what He was talking about.

    Consider David's words when all seemed lost for him - Psalm 27:

    12. Deliver me not over unto the will of mine enemies: for false witnesses are risen up against me, and such as breathe out cruelty.
    13. I had fainted, unless I had believed to see the goodness of the LORD in the land of the living.

    His advice as to this eye of faith.

    14. Wait on the LORD: be of good courage, and he shall strengthen thine heart: wait, I say, on the LORD.

    Hebrews 11:

    3. Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

    While 1 Corinthians 2 is the issue of "our glory," not of our salvation.

    Paul had only been able to keep things simple with them, due to their own faith issue.

    Had not been able to go past the issue of Christ died for your sins.

    Had not been able to speak as unto they that are perfect; had not been able to speak of the wisdom of God in a mystery; even the hidden wisdom of God unto our glory.
    absolutely - excellent thread/post ! ! ! -

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    Quote Originally Posted by patrick jane View Post
    absolutely - excellent thread/post ! ! ! -
    Get your bottle of Wen Hair Conditioner ready, the hairsplitting is on its way, lol

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    TOL Subscriber glorydaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    Obviously, we study these things differently.

    I go by overall narrative. You appear to apply other sources in addition to that.

    We may never agree on some things due to this.

    Lol, kind of like the differences between Stam's and Jordan's respective approach's, thus, their differences in understanding on some things.

    Not bad company for either one of us to be in...

    I'm okay with that.
    Very refreshing!

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    TOL Subscriber glorydaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    Nope...

    Rather...

    The righteousness of God revealed in the Law and the Prophets is now being offered without the Law; in the gospel of Christ; the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe.

    For, as the righteousness of God witnessed by the Law and the prophets had repeatedly revealed; there is none righteous, no; not one; there is no difference – all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

    Galatians 4:

    21. Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
    22. But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
    23. But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
    24. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
    25. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
    26. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

    The purpose of the Law had not been to give righteousness, rather, to prove through its offer of righteousness by the Law, that none could attain to the righteousness of the Law.

    Having proven that; now, the righteousness of God without the Law is the issue - its is now being offered - even the righteousness which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all, and upon all that believe.
    YES! Well stated and just how I see it, but could never explain the way you have. I take back all those nasty things I said about you, Danoh.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    Obviously, we study these things differently.
    I would be interested in what you have to say about the points which I raised in regard to the Lord and Savior's words at John 5:24. Do you agree with my commentary on that verse?

    I do not see how I can be wrong, especially with His following words in view here:

    "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).

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